Tow car quandry

[ProfJohnL]

I have modified two tow cars now using MAD suspension units, I am capable of doing the myself. First ones one a 3 litre Vectra "Dirty" diesel the on a 2008 Santa fe and found they helped a lot , ...

Hutch

Hello Hutch .
But why did you fit them? If the car was not overloaded there's is no need for them, so perhaps you were actually overloading?

 

[Hutch]

Hi Prof I think I probably was, I foundthat going onto the Ferries to and France the Jockey wheel would ground, i measured the springs and found them to be in limits, decided to try the MADS and found the car load better with them, .
But now many years older and not carring so much weight in the van, maybe I didnt need them after all. ??? As my recent post check your weights, you can be complacent and be way over the top. Extra two chairs ., outside table, BbQ awning , two bottles of Blue abd pink bought on speciel,deal . It all totals up. Just keep,safe all. And talk to,your fellow caravañer.

 

[RayS]

Where you live and what sort of journeys you make regularly might influene the petrol/diesel choice but there is no substitute for torque for comfortable towing.
Looking at my Freelander I tried to find a petrol engined vehicle which gets anywhere close to the BHP/torque figures it has - the petrol version of the Skoda Kodiak was about the best without going very much upmarket, but the reviews said that very few would be sold in UK.
As most of our miles are actually kilometers in Europe petrol would impose quite an increase in fuel cost even if the towing consumption matched the diesel.

I feel this is all a bit of a storm in a teacup with very little mention of the HGV fleets although I understand the most modern are very clean given their engine size.
The idea's I've heard so far about diesel scrappage look like a typical government confusion and illogicality nightmare.

 

[Raywood]

With all the confusion on this subject I suspect the sales of the petrol engined Kodiak will be higher than the reviewer suggests and certainly sales of diesels are down and petrol up although I have no way of knowing where in the ranges the diesel sales are lost. It is a confusing time to be buying and you just have to jump and hope you jumped the right way.

 

[Hutch]

Raywood , with you, lots of confusion around, but with the weight of my van 1635 kg , THEN i like to have a fairly heavy tug, so for me its a diesel, even if the " Powers that be " throw up road tax by say £250 then for me its still the Sante Fe, cant afford to run a big petrol Land rover/ Toyota. For my towing. I will be happy to have the sticker on my car saying, Nox polluting, as I pull into the Park and Ride car park to get onto the diesel bus to take me to the city center.

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

Just about to buy a Dacia Duster 1,5dci 4x2.
Max on the towball only 50kg.
My Venus 320/2 weighs 905kg.
5% = 45.25kg
6% = 54.3 kg
7% = 63.35%
So I would be running around at 5.5%.
Is this still ok?Am I worrying (yet agin)?
Opinions very welcome....as it looks as if I may need to upgrade to the 4x4!
Thanks. Simon.

 

[Raywood]

Not sure what year you have for the caravan but if the 905 figure is the MTPLM then the caravan looks a decent match. If it is the MTPLM then the kerb weight of the 4X2 still looks enough for a reasonable if not ideal match assuming I am right at about 1055 kg MTPLM.
The towball weight at 50 kg looks very low and I would make sure you can get the caravan down to that before buying and it is not ideal. I think it should work in practice if you can manage without too much rear end loading to balance it.. If the 4X4 has a higher towball figure it would help both to meet the cars limit and for stability and would be preferable.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It is generally accepted that nose load is an important factor in maintaining a stable towing outfit. Finding the right figure is dependant on how heavy your trailer is and of course how you load it to produce your nose load.

You must of course observe the maximum nose load limits (S value) and not exceed the lowest S value of the car or caravan. There is a general consensus that its better to work to wards the top of the available range, than the bottom.

The industry guidance is you should aim for a nose load of between 5 and 7% of the MTPLM of the trailer - but its only guidance, and if a figure outside of the guidance works for you that's fine.

And I know its not a popular sentiment but don't make the mistake of thinking that once you have found a working nose load you needn't bother to check it again, Caravans gather clutter and that will affect your nose load, and of course exceeding your allowance is illegal, so its simply wise to check it on each journey.

 

[Hutch]

PF, I would hope you rethink about your tow car, having a light nose load is not good, I have learned by experience. Big bad snakeing once, . Also if you decide to upgrade your caravan to something slightly heavier then you will have to replace the car as well. Look at other options.
Hutch.

 

[ProfJohnL]

PF, I would hope you rethink about your tow car, having a light nose load is not good, I have learned by experience. Big bad snakeing once, . Also if you decide to upgrade your caravan to something slightly heavier then you will have to replace the car as well. Look at other options.
Hutch.

Hello Hutch,

In the context of the MTPLM of the caravan, the nose load is within the Industry recommendation at 5.5%.

What does concern me though is the EU construction and Use regulations tell car manufacturers the S value of the tow bar should be a minimum of 4% of teh maximum towed mass which assuming Pheonixflyers figures are correct means the Duster with a Towed mass limit of 1500kg should have a minimum S value of 60Kg!

 

[Hutch]

Thanks Prof, agree with all you say there.
PF, no need to go for a 4x4, your van is very light, I towed my Coachman 1635kg max with a 2.2 Vectra, but at a 90% balance then swopped to a 3 litre vectra. Very good tow cars the old 2 litre vectras and Mondeos are excelent tow cars as I am sure many other cars as well. You dont need a 4x4 unless your going into the more out of the way places in the middle of winter. And expect very bad condition. A heavier estate car with a lower c of G, can be better than a higher c of g 4x4.
Just my thoughts.
Hutch.

 

[Raywood]

The 4X4 does have a 75kg noseweight limit which would be preferable. I appreciate you may not need a 4X4, but the heavier weight of the vehicle and the noseweight limit should make it a better towcar and allows a bit more flexibility if you change the caravan.

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

The 4X4 does have a 75kg noseweight limit which would be preferable. I appreciate you may not need a 4X4, but the heavier weight of the vehicle and the noseweight limit should make it a better towcar and allows a bit more flexibility if you change the caravan.

Well, bit the bullet today and purchased a very low mileage (9k on a 14 plate), Duster 4x4. Should cover all bases (75 kg max on the car and a safe 60kg on the caravan). Thanks for all your helpful replies...at least I now know we are 100% safe! TTW.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Well, bit the bullet today and purchased a very low mileage (9k on a 14 plate), Duster 4x4. Should cover all bases (75 kg max on the car and a safe 60kg on the caravan). Thanks for all your helpful replies...at least I now know we are 100% safe! TTW.

Hello PH

I don't want to alarm you , but none of these guidelines offer any guarantees of being "safe" There is simply no such thing as 100% safe, and no-one should have that kind of mindset, becasue they can become too casual with the things that need to be carefully managed.

THe best I can offer is:. With proper care and attention, and keeping within the guidelines and lawful limits, then there is a greater chance of an uneventful experience.

The single biggest influence on safety is the driver, and how they drive.

 

[thosoneill]

The 4X4 does have a 75kg noseweight limit which would be preferable. I appreciate you may not need a 4X4, but the heavier weight of the vehicle and the noseweight limit should make it a better towcar and allows a bit more flexibility if you change the caravan.

Well, bit the bullet today and purchased a very low mileage (9k on a 14 plate), Duster 4x4. Should cover all bases (75 kg max on the car and a safe 60kg on the caravan). Thanks for all your helpful replies...at least I now know we are 100% safe! TTW.

I'm sure that the 4 x 4 duster will be an excellent towcar for your lightweight caravan - I'm assuming you bought a diesel - get some pics up of your outfit asap - enjoy

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

Well, bit the bullet today and purchased a very low mileage (9k on a 14 plate), Duster 4x4. Should cover all bases (75 kg max on the car and a safe 60kg on the caravan). Thanks for all your helpful replies...at least I now know we are 100% safe! TTW.

Hello PH

I don't want to alarm you , but none of these guidelines offer any guarantees of being "safe" There is simply no such thing as 100% safe, and no-one should have that kind of mindset, becasue they can become too casual with the things that need to be carefully managed.

THe best I can offer is:. With proper care and attention, and keeping within the guidelines and lawful limits, then there is a greater chance of an uneventful experience.

The single biggest influence on safety is the driver, and how they drive.

If you read back through this thread, (and others I have posted as a newbie),you should deduce that I am far from "casual", and my aim has always been to achieve a car / van combo that is within the known and suggested guidelines and lawful at all times.

If I was "casual" in my approach, why would I spend time on this forum picking the brains of people far more experienced than I ?

I certainly do not expect any guarantees....its all up to me to deal the best hand I can for my wife and I as we venture into caravan land!.

Thanks for your concern.

 

[Hutch]

PF, I think looking at your questions since joining your trying to get your , 100% safe, ideal. Most people understand where your aiming for , have a good time out and enjoy everything,
Hutch.

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

Thanks Hutch, hopefully after all the initial outlay we will get the use out of it. Planning on going on rallies and adventures asap. TTW.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...

If you read back through this thread, (and others I have posted as a newbie),you should deduce that I am far from "casual", and my aim has always been to achieve a car / van combo that is within the known and suggested guidelines and lawful at all times.

If I was "casual" in my approach, why would I spend time on this forum picking the brains of people far more experienced than I ?

I certainly do not expect any guarantees....its all up to me to deal the best hand I can for my wife and I as we venture into caravan land!.

Thanks for your concern.

Hello again PF

It was your statement of being "100% safe" that started alarm bells ringing. because it suggests the user may be under the misconception that they may have done enough and there's nothing else to be concerned about.

I am aware you have made extensive postings about setting up your outfit, and that is great, but please bear in mind we only have your posting on what to form an opinion on - we are not mind readers and we don't know you, personally, so with no disrespect intended I have assume the lowest common denominator.

Unfortunately we have previously had new posters who have asked myriads of questions, gone into fine detail about weight ratios and limits taken the answers and thought they had every thing just right, but encountered problems when actually towing. So its important to make posters aware there are no guarantees of safety.

I'd rather post in this way and be proved wrong, than do nothing to perhaps bring the matter to light.

Have many happy and safe holidays.

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

Understood, and appreciate the post.
We have learnt a lot....and still have loads to learn.
Just got to start putting it into practice now!
TTW

 

[CluelessNewbies]

Hi PF, I just wondered if you had towed with the duster yet?

We collected our first van last week, and its the first time i have actually towed a real caravan. (I did my B+E in a freelander 2 and a trailer) I towed my caravan (Lunar clubman SR) on my car for the first time friday. I have a Jaguar XF 3.0d (Because its won a lot of awards for towing and the numbers all worked out)

OMG what a shock pulling the van compared to the trailer i practiced on! Its going to take some real getting used to!

 

[simon_374531619]

PF just try to enjoy yourself mate-plenty to worry about when you get on site and set up ;-).....and plenty of people to watch you make lots of mistakes BUT overall we're a friendly bunch!

 

[Hutch]

CN, yes a trailer is so much easier, not always to reverse though. Just take it easy, your tow car is great, just be safe and have a good time
Hutch.

 

[simon_374531619]

When Ive used my trailer to go to the tip I daren't reverse it back onto the drive :-(....probably end up along side me ;-)))

 

[CluelessNewbies]

Thanks Hutch, I fully intend to, we are on a maiden voyage bank holiday for a week and i have already pre booked sites across the summer. the children and I are determined to come back as proficient surfers lol

I have also set a speed limiter on the car so as not to accidentally run into 'trouble'!

You don't realise how bad you drive, until you tow! - (I think thats a bumper sticker in the making!)