Tow cars and BHP

[Sh3ll]

Hi

Looking for some advice please.

I have a Sterling Eccles Sapphire, 5 berth 2008.
MTPLM 1560kg
MIRO 1340kg
User payload 220kg

We have been looking at buying an older 4x4 for towing it possibly a 2.5 TD Shogun, Shogun Sport, or a Land Rover type vehicle.

BUT although I can get all the weights to align with nice green ticks on the matching tools, the BPH always seems to be debatable..... Does this matter if the weights are all in scope?

I'm new to all of this and so I don't really understand the jargon yet but I am trying. Got the B&E license so we are covered there.

Please help a damsel in distress or a divorce may be heading her way soon

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

What is BPH, please?

Edit - ignore comment, title now corrected.

 

[Sh3ll]

Typo - BHP it should be

 

[otherclive]

With the cars you are looking at the bhp may look low compared to say a modern diesel 1.6 litre ( for example). But it's the torque that you need and Sorento, Shogun/Pajero, Discovery are all made for towing and depending on the model wil undoubtedly have a low ratio gearbox as well. I towed with a 2004 Sorento and a 2000 Discovery Td5 both had 138 bhp and were able to tow far heavier trailers than you are proposing. So you won't have any problems in that direction. Also being heavy all of those cars will give you a good ratio of kerbweight to caravan MTPLM.

 

[Rodone]

Brake horsepower

 

[Sh3ll]

Torque and low ratio gear box?

Sorry.... I am a proper newbie to all of this

 

[otherclive]

Torque is a measure of the engines pulling power. It's what gives the acceleration. You can have two engines with the same power but one may have high torque and develops the power at low revs. The other has identical power but lower torque so needs higher revs to develop its power. So the high torque lower revving engine makes for a better towing experience.
True off road 4x4 like the first generation Sorento, Shogun/Pajero and Discovery have a low ratio gearbox which effectively gives another set of gears so that the engine can tow heavy loads up inclines or rough ground etc. These low ratio set ups are used in demanding conditions but of course you don't get something for nothing as the cars speeds are lower in each gear because the gear ratio is low. Think of it like a bike with five gears in the rear cluster and two gears on the main wheel. For the same road speed you can either pedal fast but without much effort or use more muscle power but at a lower leg/pedal cadence.

 

[Sh3ll]

Thanks for the feed back otherclive. I am just really struggling to work it all out but i have looked up all the specs for the vehicle. So the towing report says the shogun sport 2.5td for our caravan is 85% of its towing weight, 56% of its towing limit, 74% gross train weight, 87% nose weight and the bhp per ton is 31. The BHP is 114 and the torque is 240nm 177ft-lb but i dont understand what the torque means in respect to towing the caravan we have been looking at the shogun 3.2 but they are harder to come by than the 2.5 sport

 

[otherclive]

Try looking up the torque of a Discovery TD5, Sorento first model 138bhp version, Pajero/ Shogun 2.8tdi. That will give you an idea as to where the Shogun Sport stands. I've seen them being used as tow cars but you need to find an owners view. They aren't full on 4x4 off roaders as the others are but given suffices torque/power should make a perfectly good Towcar, assuming you don't plan taking the caravan onto greenlanes! Other models you might look at are Izuzu Trooper or Hyundai
It's the cars torque combined with its gear ratios that determine its towing performance. The Shogun Sport 2.5td should be okay as I suspect it's gearing will be low. But the disadvantage could be its rather leisurely on acceleration and perhaps on long inclines.

 

[Gagakev]

I had the 3.0 litre Sport but it was the petrol version and not good on fuel consumption.
I know have the 3.2 Shogun diesel, both off these vehicles are more than capable of doing what you require and to be honest there is not much to choose between the two in respect of capabilities.

 

[otherclive]

Hi again. My 2004 Sorento 138bhp had 314nm and had absolutely no problem towing a 1400 kg caravan anywhere we wanted to visit. It took the long inclines going to the south of France in its stride and had enough power to overtake on UK motorways when pulling out into lane 2 was required. But it's van was a bit lighter than yours. However Sorentos are a common site towing larger vans including twin axles. Hope this helps as it's quite difficult making your first choice especially as it's rare to get a test drive with a caravan on the back.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks for the feed back otherclive. I am just really struggling to work it all out but i have looked up all the specs for the vehicle. So the towing report says the shogun sport 2.5td for our caravan is 85% of its towing weight, 56% of its towing limit, 74% gross train weight, 87% nose weight and the bhp per ton is 31. The BHP is 114 and the torque is 240nm 177ft-lb but i dont understand what the torque means in respect to towing the caravan we have been looking at the shogun 3.2 but they are harder to come by than the 2.5 sport

Hi
Without over complicating it the more torque at low engine speeds the better for towing.

 

[otherclive]

Discovery 2 TD5 2.5 litre engine has 340nm torque in standard trim. So the Shigun Sport 2.5TD might be an okay Towcar albeit quite sluggish. I find having a bit more pull makes for a far more relaxing drive.

If you were to look at a Sorento search this forum for links back to UK Sorento Forum as there are some rear suspension axle rusting issues but Kia are still sorting them out free of charge. Parksy has a Sorento and may have more info if you went down this route.

 

[Sh3ll]

Thanks mate will have a look at the other ones and see what they come up at and get back to you. Thanks for all the advise it's much appreciated.

 

[Martin24]

The 2012 onwards Isuzu D-Max 400Nm of torque from its 2.5 l twin turbo. Excellent tow car. Pulls our 1800kg twin axle very well and is very stable. We have towed with the TD5 Discovery that Clive suggested, it was very capable but at the time we were towing a 1500kg single axle. Our old Pajero 2.8 was good so no reason to think the 3.2 would not be okay and nothing much to complain about with the two Ssangyong Rextons we had either. The briefly made 2 litre wants to be avoided though. I did try the Shogun Sport many years ago but just couldn't get comfortable on the test drive.

 

[Hutch]

We had a 2008 Santa Fe, 2 .2 turbo diesel, 154 BHP forgotten the torque but pulled out 1645 kg Coachman no problems.
Think about torque as being , the difference between a big old Dray horse and a race horse, one can go fast but can only carry a light load the Dray horse can pull lots. Can get up to speed but may take its time.

 

[Parksy]

Discovery 2 TD5 2.5 litre engine has 340nm torque in standard trim. So the Shigun Sport 2.5TD might be an okay Towcar albeit quite sluggish. I find having a bit more pull makes for a far more relaxing drive.

If you were to look at a Sorento search this forum for links back to UK Sorento Forum as there are some rear suspension axle rusting issues but Kia are still sorting them out free of charge. Parksy has a Sorento and may have more info if you went down this route.

I used to tow our t/a (twin axle) Abbey Vogue with a MPTLM of 1650kg with a 140 BHP 2.8 td Mitsubishi Pajero (Shogun), the 4x4 was an excellent towing vehicle, very reliable but a bit thirsty and old fashioned.
I recently sold the Pajero which I had for seven years and bought a Kia Sorento with a 2.5 diesel engine which delivers 160 BHP, more power for less capacity.
The Sorento is also a great towing vehicle, still a bit too thirsty for everyday use (I use a Fiesta as my daily drive) and if you buy a Sorento ensure that there is a full service history and that the recall work has been carried out.
Beware of the auto gearbox, the road fund licence will cost £500 per year so check beforehand.
Kia are still continuing with the recall work on the rear axle brackets despite rumours to the contrary.
Any of the vehicles that you mentioned will tow your Sterling Eccles.

 

[Sh3ll]

Thank you otherclive, we bought a 2009 2.5 Sorento today! Hadn't really considered it but after your advice one popped up in our budget today and we went for it

 

[otherclive]

I think you will really enjoy it, we loved ours and my wife would go for another given half a chance. Just make sure the rear axle issues have been addressed and then continue to keep an eye on it. Kia's customer service has been first class.