Tow hitch weight.

[forester08]

We have spent the day packing the van for a trip tomorrow, when I got around to checking the weight at the tow hitch it was way over the 90 Kg we can have with our setup. So I moved some bits and bobs further back to lessen the weight at the front and got in the region of 85-90Kg. Then I remembered reading (we are newbies to caravans) that the wheels should be chocked and the hand brake off, wow what a difference! Reading was now 75Kg so back inside and move bits and pieces more to the centre to get reading 85Kg ish.
It’s a complicated business this tow hitch weight thingy isn’t it?

 

[VicMallows]

Yes, the caravan must be free to pivot (on its wheels) for an accurate measurement.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Than you Forester
I must say its really nice when someone actually reads the advice given, and comes back to the forum with what they found.

A 10kg difference just goes to show how sensitive teh measurement of nose load needs to be. CAn I enquire how you are measuring your nose load?

 

[forester08]

We use a Milenco gauge with a flat piece of wood under it so that at the final reading the tow hitch is at the same height as the tow ball of the car.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

...the tow hitch is at the same height as the tow ball of the car.

When hitched or unhitched? Single or twin axle?

 

[bertieboy1]

Can someone explain why chocking wheels and releasing the handbrake reduces the tow hitch weight.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Can someone explain why chocking wheels and releasing the handbrake reduces the tow hitch weight.

It doesn't necessarily reduce the weight, it might increase it, depending on which way the van was last rotated. The van needs to freely pivot about its axle or else the moment (rotational effect) is compromised, giving a false reading.

 

[Damian]

t does not automatically reduce the hitch weight , but chocking the wheels to ensure the van does not move and releasing the handbrake allows the van to pivot on its wheels as more weight is added or removed from in front of the axle, or from behind the axle.

 

[ProfJohnL]

We use a Milenco gauge with a flat piece of wood under it so that at the final reading the tow hitch is at the same height as the tow ball of the car.

The correct way of measuring nose load, is to load the car and caravan as if setting of on holiday with all luggage and passengers. Pull onto a horizontal (level) road and stop. Measure the height of the hitch when it is coupled to the car Chock the caravan wheels and unhitch. Now arrange the nose load gauge so its supports the hitch at exactly the same measured height as when it was coupled to the car. ( I normally suggest using the caravan step and magazines to support a pair of bathroom scales - more accurate than any compression spring nose load gauge)

Nose load measurement at any other height from the floor is not nose load measurement. Depending on the type of caravan and the way it has been loaded only quite small nose height difference can make a substantial difference to the measure load.

I cannot recommend any form nose load gauge that compresses a when load is applied as you can never be sure it will compress to support the hitch at the towing height.

 

[forester08]

Which is why I use various pieces of wood under the gauge so that at the final reading the hitch is at the same level as the ball on the car…………more or less.

 

[DrZhivago]

Which is why I use various pieces of wood under the gauge so that at the final reading the hitch is at the same level as the ball on the car

Unless you need to lose height

Or saw 6 inches off the gauge (if that's possible) and put your trolley jack under it for fine control.

 

[Martin24]

Is it too heavy to lift be hand? Yes, then too heavy.
Is it very easy to lift by hand? Yes, then it's a bit on the light side.
Can you lift but need to put a bit of effort in? Good, then it's about right. :evil:

 

[ProfJohnL]

Is it too heavy to lift be hand? Yes, then too heavy.
Is it very easy to lift by hand? Yes, then it's a bit on the light side.
Can you lift but need to put a bit of effort in? Good, then it's about right. :evil:

DON'T GO THERE! even if it were just jape, It is not helpful at all
That is such a silly and dangerous approach to something that requires proper control.

 

[Martin24]

As far as advice to others obviously Prof I wouldn't advocate this approach and I apologise if anyone would take it seriously as a piece of advice for other people. It's entirely my way of doing it and I in no way recommend it for others.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

As far as advice to others obviously Prof I wouldn't advocate this approach and I apologise if anyone would take it seriously as a piece of advice for other people. It's entirely my way of doing it and I in no way recommend it for others.

agreed Martin there is a saying when you know it's right it is right. it's the way it used to be done before all this EU rubbish came in. although mate I have to say the older you get the more weight there seems to be on the hitch.

please note. this is not a recommendation. just a comment between old caravanners.
thought I would point this out. as it seems some do not understand a joke. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[otherclive]

As far as advice to others obviously Prof I wouldn't advocate this approach and I apologise if anyone would take it seriously as a piece of advice for other people. It's entirely my way of doing it and I in no way recommend it for others.

agreed Martin there is a saying when you know it's right it is right. it's the way it used to be done before all this EU rubbish came in. although mate I have to say the older you get the more weight there seems to be on the hitch.

please note. this is not a recommendation. just a comment between old caravanners.
thought I would point this out. as it seems some do not understand a joke. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Colin,
I am a bit perplexed. What's the EU got to do with noseweight and its measurement. Surely we required to keep noseweight within the specification of the car/towbar and caravan before we joined the EU, or am I missing something here?

 

[colin-yorkshire]

the standardisation and type approval legislation came directly from the EU.as a directive. before that each country made [or didn't] it's own rules. of course with the passage of time one forgets just how many rules were made abroad.
the UK had it's own [very few] rules governing the use of trailers. all these were scrapped by the directive.

 

[camel]

I've just been to the storage site to check the difference in what my nose weight would be using my Milenco nose weight gauge and a brand new set of bathroom scales just bought for the purpose, the caravan is parked on level concrete so first of all I checked the N/S with the Milenco and it was 85kgs which I knew before hand because I checked it earlier this year in the exact same spot, having zeroed the scales and checked them with one of my dumbells I then placed the dowel on the scales exactly the same height as the tow ball on the car, I lowered the hitch down on to the dowel having scotched the caravan wheels and the reading was 82kgs,

 

[VicMallows]

What are you trying to say? I believe the point being made is that a compression type (Milenco) gauge will, well, compress .....and that therefore it can need quite a bit of fiddling around to ensure that the hitch is at the correct height when taking the reading. It is far simpler to use a piece of 2x2 wood cut accurately to size and a strain-gauge bathroom scales. (Don't forget to deduct the weight of the piece of wood )

(BTW, Lidl have decent digital bathroom scales at the moment at £7.99)

 

[camel]

What are you trying to say? I believe the point being made is that a compression type (Milenco) gauge will, well, compress .....and that therefore it can need quite a bit of fiddling around to ensure that the hitch is at the correct height when taking the reading. It is far simpler to use a piece of 2x2 wood cut accurately to size and a strain-gauge bathroom scales. (Don't forget to deduct the weight of the piece of wood )

(BTW, Lidl have decent digital bathroom scales at the moment at £7.99)

I'm trying to say that I have used a Milenco nose weight gauge and a set of bathroom scales to see what the difference is in noseweight between the two methods of weighing for noseweight, so what is it you don't understand,

 

[VicMallows]

I think we are both in perfect agreement Any method is OK as long as the user considers and takes into account all the relevant factors.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think we are both in perfect agreement Any method is OK as long as the user considers and takes into account all the relevant factors.

I cannot possibly agree with that summation. There may a number of way of correctly accessing the actual nose load, but few are practical for ordinary drivers. But there many more highly inappropriate ways which can give no confidence the correct nose load has been achieved.

The consequences of getting it wrong are principally the out fit will be difficult to tow and could even be dangerous. and regardless of how remote the chance of actual detection the loading may be illegal.

What are you trying to say? I believe the point being made is that a compression type (Milenco) gauge will, well, compress .....and that therefore it can need quite a bit of fiddling around to ensure that the hitch is at the correct height when taking the reading. It is far simpler to use a piece of 2x2 wood cut accurately to size and a strain-gauge bathroom scales. (Don't forget to deduct the weight of the piece of wood )

(BTW, Lidl have decent digital bathroom scales at the moment at £7.99)

Cutting a stick to the "right length", begs the question what is right length?, Because if you change anything in the way teh car or the caravan is loaded the hitch height will also change as the cars suspension will settle to a different height.

 

[camel]

Prof,
What system would you use to measure your nose weight because whichever method you use it is not covered by the Weights and Measures act, so one way can't be any better than the other way, but I've just ordered a Reich weight control that fits on the tow ball, now it must be good it is German,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof,
What system would you use to measure your nose weight because whichever method you use it is not covered by the Weights and Measures act, so one way can't be any better than the other way whatever way that is to measure nose weight, but I've just ordered a Reich weight control that fits on the tow ball, now it must be good it is German,

In my career, have had access to a number of different calibrated measuring systems, which have allowed nose load to be measured with a at least 1kg resolution of certainty. But since leaving that and doing domestic towing I have used bathroom scales.

Your are correct that none of the domestic systems are covered by weights an measures, so the accuracy and repeatability are not verifiable, but at least with a set of bathroom scales there is a possibility the owner can get a fair idea of their accuracy by loading them with known weights, (25kg bag of sand, known volumes of water becasue 1 Litre weighs 1kg, or as someone has suggested weight lifting weights. which can demonstrate both the sort of relevant accuracy and the repeatably. That is something you cannot do with the collapsible spring gauges most commonly , it's almost impossible.

Secondly the compressible spring gauges are usually coarsely graduated and it is very easy to inadvertently read the scale with a parallax error. bathroom scales are have much finer graduations and smaller parallax reading errors and of course there are digital scaled that eliminate parallax altogether.

Bathroom scales even the metal spring varieties have a very small compression movement when loaded in the order of 5 to 10mm Max where as the compressible nose load gauges of ten have 150mm range of movement.

So on balance I'd trust bathroom scales over any stick type nose load gauge.

You have mentioned the Reich product. This fails to meet the criteria, becasue it raises the tow hitch by about 75mm, so it is not measuring the actual nose load which for accuracy must be done at the towed height. Reich acknowledge this by stating its compensates for it, BUT, as the device has no method of entering the dimensions of the car and caravan, and you cannot know the actual vertical height of the caravans centre of gravity, the compensation it provides is at best a guess and not a proper mathematical calculation.

The problem is even worse where its a twin axle caravan, where the height to nose load change of the hitch is far more aggressive, and depending a number of factors it can be positive or negative.

 

[camel]

Prof,
Thanks for reply,