Towing Advice Needed

[derekandsheena]

Hi everyone,
This is my first time to caravanning and have been looking at different caravans to buy but am a little confused as to which caravan would be suitable as trying to work out the different weights has gone over my head so i am hoping some of you experienced people on here can guide me in the right direction.
I am looking to buy a second hand caravan 4 berth fixed bed single axle but just need to know what the maximum my car can pull as in terms of a caravan.

I have a Citroen Picasso 1.6 Diesel 2009

Height 1637mm
Length 4276mm
Wheelbase 2760mm
Width 1751mm

Gross Vehicle Weight 1850kg
Max Loading Weight 550kg
Max Towing Weight-Braked 1300kg
Max Towing Weight-Unbraked 690kg
Minimum Kerb Weight 1300kg

All help is greatly appreciated

 

[Sproket]

It's 1300kg as in line 3 of your question

Max Towing Weight - Braked 1300kg

But it can also depend on what your gross train weight is your figures show that it's 3150kg.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello D&S

I guess what you are really trying to work out is what size of caravan to consider. This is obviously dictated by the tow car you have.

Legally you can tow any trailer that falls within the specification of the car, but its not always wise to for the biggest allowed. Caravans are big and bulky and represent a bigger challenge than a simple garden trailer. In recognition of this the caravan industry makes some recommendations to help guide people looking for their first caravan.

It is always good sense to keep the caravan as small as possible, relative to the tow car, and the recommendation that novice caravanners try to keep the towing ratio to about 85% and only increase as experience grows. The ratio is calculated on the caravans MTPLM divided by the cars Kerbweight.

With your car this suggests looking for a caravan with an MTPLM not exceeding 1105Kg. Please note this recommendation does not guarantee the combination will tow well or safely. Good towing is about proper maintenance of both car and caravan, and good driving habits allowing for the prevailing conditions.

In the future you may wish to consider increasing the size of your caravan. According to the cars specification you might consider a caravan with a weight up to 1300Kg. This would raise the ratio to in this case 100%.

However the specification of some cars are slightly confusing, and care should be taken to gather the necessary information to make a fully informed decision. In particular the maximum towed weight allowance of a some cars is restricted by the the cars Gross Train Weight (GTW) This is particularly pertinent to caravanners, as in many cases when going on holiday both the car and caravan may be heavily loaded and close to their legal maximums.

You can check this:- find the cars data plate which contains the vehicles axles, GVW and GTW weight limits. Take the GTW and subtract the GVW. This will give you the heaviest trailer weight that can be towed with the fully loaded car, it may be less than the maximum trailer weight in the specification. You can only tow the maximum trailer weight by only part loading the car or vice versa, in any event the combined weight of car and caravan must not exceed the GTW on the cars data plate.

I hope this helps

 

[Red_Mick]

A very thorny issue, full of pitfalls as well as widely different opinions. I've been following some of the discussions and today made the effort to take my car to a weighbridge. Now, at least I know the true kerbweight, differing websites quoted anything from 1250 to 1550 for the same car, it's actually 1540kg, so now I know. (VW Passat Hi-Line 2.0diesel, 140PS DSG, if you're interested)

Using this, I can calculate 85%, which is ideal, up to whatever I choose, so long as I don't overstep maximum braked tow weight of 1800kg.(Won't be going anywhere near that!)

Having rejected so many 'vans recently, playing safe on the kerbweight minima quoted, at least I know where I stand, (I think )

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Mick,

I get the sense you have misunderstood the importance of the recommended 85%. and are treating it as if its the holy grail!! It has no legal standing, It has no guarantees of safety or good towing either. It is only a recommendation. Why the industry chose 85% and not any other figure is one of the imponderable mysteries, as no one seems to know or is prepared to justify it. Nothing magically changes at 85%, In fact most people would not detect any real difference if a caravan was at 80 or even 90%

In practice it is a fair generally starting point, but good safe towing is more dependent on how you load the trailer, to get a suitable nose weight, good maintenance of both car and trailer, and probably the biggest influence on safety is the driver.

Don't get me wrong keeping within vehicle weight limits is necessary, but giving notional weight ratios' a higher priority in preference to a wider set of criteria is just as dangerous.

 

[derekandsheena]

Thanks to all but only yesterday i traded in my car and bought a Nissan Qashqai N-tec Dci 4x4 with a tow weight of 2100kg and 148bhp so no problems now

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks to all but only yesterday i traded in my car and bought a Nissan Qashqai N-tec Dci 4x4 with a tow weight of 2100kg and 148bhp so no problems now

Sorry to put a damper on your new purchase, Please check your driving licence entitlements, if you passed your test after Jan 1997 you may find you cannot tow some combinations of caravans with your new car. If you passed before Jan 199s then no problems.

 

[derekandsheena]

Thanks to all but only yesterday i traded in my car and bought a Nissan Qashqai N-tec Dci 4x4 with a tow weight of 2100kg and 148bhp so no problems now

Sorry to put a damper on your new purchase, Please check your driving licence entitlements, if you passed your test after Jan 1997 you may find you cannot tow some combinations of caravans with your new car. If you passed before Jan 199s then no problems.

Thanks ProfjohnL My driving licence will be fine even without looking at it as in season i normally tow a 50ft trailer and it`s normally full up with racing fuel, Offical fuel supplier for BSB,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again,

Im sorry to be so pedantic, but the question of driving licences is often overlooked and the implications could be prosecution for driving without a licence for the category of vehicle in question.

Not withstanding the skills necessary to drive the 50ft vehicle you describe,because of its size It will be covered by a different vehicle category probably Cat C1 a Medium sized vehicle (3500 to 7500kg). It does not cover you for your car and caravan, as the relevant category is determined by the MAM of the car.

Cars by definition will be less than 3500kg and that puts it into Cat B,

My suspicion is is raised by your statement that your new to caravanning and car has a max towed load of 2100Kg. In most case such a large towed limit will mean the cars GVW will also be quite large. If you only have a CatB licence then your combined MAM (GVW + MTPLM) must not exceed 3500Kg, and if you have a large car then it might restrict you to a small caravan.

If you passed your test before Jan 1997 then you will automatically have Cat BE or B+E. and that covers all car and caravan combinations. If you only have Cat B you can arrange to take the E extension test for towing larger outfits if you need to

So please check your licence and your GVW and MTPLM..

 

[Raywood]

The Nissan may have a towing capability of 2,000 kg but under no circumstances tow a caravan that weight as it is far too heavy for the car to tow on the open road. The general recommendation is that the MTPLM (maximum laden weight) of the caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the tow car, although if you are an experienced tower you could possibly go up to 95%. Beyond this there is a very real safety concern of the caravan taking control of the car in an emergency situation or even jacknife as a lorry passes. The towing limit is simply the weight the car can restart on a specified steep hill and has nothing to do with safety. It would enable you to tow a broken down vehicle a short distance at low speed but no way should you try towing that weight at motorway speeds unless you have a death wish.

 

[Gafferbill]

Hello again,

Im sorry to be so pedantic, but the question of driving licences is often overlooked and the implications could be prosecution for driving without a licence for the category of vehicle in question.

Not withstanding the skills necessary to drive the 50ft vehicle you describe,because of its size It will be covered by a different vehicle category probably Cat C1 a Medium sized vehicle (3500 to 7500kg). It does not cover you for your car and caravan, as the relevant category is determined by the MAM of the car.

Prof........you do not seem to understand the fact that the UK vehicle licensing requirements are such that you are required to hold a full Category B license before you can hold a license for a vehicle in a heavier gross weight category.
Therefore anyone who has a full Category C1 license also holds a full Category B license and any trailer entitlement held for the heavier vehicle class will also give entitlement in the lower weight vehicle classes

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Gaffer

I agree with you, but as the op has not told us what licence categories he has, it is possible he may actually be towing his 50ft trailer illegally

Its worth checking.

 

[RogerL]

Deflecting the thread to question the OP's licence entitlement is unworthy of contributors - if there were an issue there, it would be totally different to the subject matter.

If I ask a question about towing an uncommon outfit, I'd be offended at the spanish inquisition on my entitlement to drive such an outfit.

It's appropriate to add "subject to driving licence entitlements" to any answer given but no more than that - the OP may well have CE plus full ADR.

 

[Gafferbill]

Deflecting the thread to question the OP's licence entitlement is unworthy of contributors - if there were an issue there, it would be totally different to the subject matter.

If I ask a question about towing an uncommon outfit, I'd be offended at the spanish inquisition on my entitlement to drive such an outfit.

It's appropriate to add "subject to driving licence entitlements" to any answer given but no more than that - the OP may well have CE plus full ADR.

Roger .................my post above was directed at the forum contributor quoted and not the OP.

I could of challenged the OP about the 50ft length of trailer he stated he tows as it would appear to contravene the Construction and Use regulations as to maximum length of trailers without special permission.
This being a caravan forum.........I put it down to exaggeration.

 

[RogerL]

Articulated HGVs can haul 16.5 metre trailers - that's about 54 feet - and includes fuel tankers.

http://www.suttonsgroup.com/images/pages/1126192323.jpg
Any driver authorised to drive such an outfit will have BE among their entitlements - and no doubt a stack more entitlements than most of us.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Deflecting the thread to question the OP's licence entitlement is unworthy of contributors - if there were an issue there, it would be totally different to the subject matter.

Hello Roger,

I,m sorry if your unhappy. It was a genuine concern, This was not a inquisition.

Throughout the thread the OP has left clues that tell us he is new to caravanning, and has not understood the issues of vehicle weights. The other snippets of information are confusing, which do not conclusively show the OP has the necessary licence or understanding of the categories.

I would rather give the information and find it was not needed than to find a caravanner makes a costly or dangerous mistake.

 

[Gafferbill]

Articulated HGVs can haul 16.5 metre trailers - that's about 54 feet

........not true without special permission.

True the UK Government is trialling the use of longer trailers up to 15.65 meters but is limiting numbers.

 

[xtrailman]

The Nissan may have a towing capability of 2,000 kg but under no circumstances tow a caravan that weight as it is far too heavy for the car to tow on the open road. The general recommendation is that the MTPLM (maximum laden weight) of the caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the tow car, although if you are an experienced tower you could possibly go up to 95%. Beyond this there is a very real safety concern of the caravan taking control of the car in an emergency situation or even jacknife as a lorry passes. The towing limit is simply the weight the car can restart on a specified steep hill and has nothing to do with safety. It would enable you to tow a broken down vehicle a short distance at low speed but no way should you try towing that weight at motorway speeds unless you have a death wish.

Are you serious?
An experienced tower can tow to 100% with out any danger of passing vehicles causing the caravan to jacknife.

 

[xtrailman]

The Nissan may have a towing capability of 2,000 kg but under no circumstances tow a caravan that weight as it is far too heavy for the car to tow on the open road. The general recommendation is that the MTPLM (maximum laden weight) of the caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the tow car, although if you are an experienced tower you could possibly go up to 95%. Beyond this there is a very real safety concern of the caravan taking control of the car in an emergency situation or even jacknife as a lorry passes. The towing limit is simply the weight the car can restart on a specified steep hill and has nothing to do with safety. It would enable you to tow a broken down vehicle a short distance at low speed but no way should you try towing that weight at motorway speeds unless you have a death wish.

An experienced tower can tow up to 100% with out any danger of passing lorries causing it to jacknife.

 

[RogerL]

The Nissan may have a towing capability of 2,000 kg but under no circumstances tow a caravan that weight as it is far too heavy for the car to tow on the open road. The general recommendation is that the MTPLM (maximum laden weight) of the caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the tow car, although if you are an experienced tower you could possibly go up to 95%. Beyond this there is a very real safety concern of the caravan taking control of the car in an emergency situation or even jacknife as a lorry passes. The towing limit is simply the weight the car can restart on a specified steep hill and has nothing to do with safety. It would enable you to tow a broken down vehicle a short distance at low speed but no way should you try towing that weight at motorway speeds unless you have a death wish.

Are you serious?
An experienced tower can tow to 100% with out any danger of passing vehicles causing the caravan to jacknife.

85% and 100% are the guidelines from the NCC, depending on experience - I've never seen any recommendation for 95%. The old 100% legal limit for B-only licence-holders has been dropped.