towing legally

Aug 25, 2006
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i have read some people talking about tow weights and outfits

and i think some are miss leading

as i understand it you can not exceed the kerb weight of the car

with the caravan weather it be unladen or fully laden,plus never over load nose weight of car to make it safe

my saab 93 has laden weight of 1600 and max pull of 1500 plus nose weight of 75

plus even if your car can pull 1700 and has laden weight of 1600 you can not pull more than 1600 even if the car is said it can pull 1700

if you did it would be not legall and dangerous having a van that weighed more than your car
 
Jul 5, 2006
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If you have taken a driving test since 1/1/97 and have a category B licence only, you are restricted to a motor vehicle not exceeding 3500kg gross vehicle weight and a trailer not exceeding 750kg gross weight (4250kg total). Or if the trailer exceeds 750kg gross then the maximum authorised combined weight must not exceed 3500kg and the gross weight of the trailer must not exceed the unladen weight of the motor vehicle.

If you held your licence before 1/1/97 or have taken a seperate trailer test, your licence will authorise you to drive category B+E vehicles. That is a motor vehicle not exceeding 3500kg gross weight towing a trailer exceeding 750kg with no further restriction.

The vehicles VIN plate should show the manufacturers design weight for the vehicle, and to exceed them would be foolish, dangerous and possibly illegal.

It is not recomended to tow a trailer which exceeds the kerbside weight of your car on safety grounds.

If you only have a category B licence it would also be illegal.

I hope this clarifys the points raised.

regards

Steve
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Neil

The laws concerning what you can tow are quite complex, and thus explanations can seem to be misleading simply because it is so involved.

What you as a driver can tow is determined by the conditions and permitted categories stated on your driving license. The rules changed in 1997 and new licenses issued after that date do have additional restrictions - so check yours for your own limits.

What a vehicle is capable of towing is determined by the manufacture after a series of tests. Some vehicles are not approved for towing at all - others are restricted to trailers where the maximum mass is less than the kerb weight of the car, and others are rated to tow trailers that can exceed the cars mass by quite a considerable margin. Each make and model will be different so your details with the manufacturer.

You are quite correct, you must not exceed the stated limits for the nose loads, but the same caution must be applied to the overall loading of the car and trailer.

It is wrong to assume that by sticking to the limits guarantees safety, all it actually does is to keep you legal! Safety is a much wider issue and even though a legal match may be achieved, some outfits just do not work well together and can be difficult to handle and thus unsafe.

Provided the outfit is stable (easy to control) and none of the limits (including your license) are exceeded then an outfit where the trailer is heavier than the tug is perfectly legal.

Notwithstanding the above, It is widely accepted that it is sensible to keep the trailer mass below the car, in fact the caravan club recommend that a ratio of 85% This is a good target (though not a legal requirement).
 
Jul 2, 2006
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"If you have taken a driving test since 1/1/97 and have a category B licence only, you are restricted to a motor vehicle not exceeding 3500kg gross vehicle weight and a trailer not exceeding 750kg gross weight (4250kg total)."

Ididn't know about this law untill i joined this forum a month or so ago.

Have you noticed the amount of drivers that fall into this category(age wise)that are driving with pick ups/vans and towing commercial trailers etc, through their work? I wonder what percentage of these drivers have passed their b+e.

I would presume if they were involved in an accident they would not be covered as their insurance cover would be void,

Gavin.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Gavin you said "If you have taken a driving test since 1/1/97 and have a category B licence only, you are restricted to a motor vehicle not exceeding 3500kg gross vehicle weight and a trailer not exceeding 750kg gross weight (4250kg total)."

This is not so.

You can not tow a van heavier than the kerb weight of the car but you can tow a trailer over 750kg as long as the train weight does not exceed 3500kg. My Honda CRV has a MAM of 2000kg and my van a MPTLM of 1300kg so this combination is ok with cat B only licence.
 
Jul 2, 2006
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Hi Ray,

i was copying from a previous post hence the inverted commas.

The main point i was trying to make is that there must be an awful lot of younger drivers who work in the building trade, landscape gardeners,etc,etc that are driving without insurance because of this law. I find that a bit worrying, i certinaly would'nt like to be involved in an accident with one of them,

Gavin
 
Aug 25, 2006
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Hi Ray,

i was copying from a previous post hence the inverted commas.

The main point i was trying to make is that there must be an awful lot of younger drivers who work in the building trade, landscape gardeners,etc,etc that are driving without insurance because of this law. I find that a bit worrying, i certinaly would'nt like to be involved in an accident with one of them,

Gavin
hi all thanks for getting back,

i know that the licence before and after 1997 changed what you can tow but even if you had a combined weight af say 3500kg the kerb weight of the car has to be always more than the van other wise this is not legal

my car can pull 1500kg with a kerb weight of 1565kg

my van fully laden is 1425kg unladen 1256kg there abouts and anyway i never fill the van .

this is a good legal match and as i understand it from all the mags and caravan club this how it should be done to be safe and legal.

sorry to go on but i read someone banging on about the fact that a van can weigh more than the cars kerb weight and the kerbweight stated on all cars is only a guideline ,which i thought was a load of rubbish
 
Aug 25, 2006
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hi all thanks for getting back,

i know that the licence before and after 1997 changed what you can tow but even if you had a combined weight af say 3500kg the kerb weight of the car has to be always more than the van other wise this is not legal

my car can pull 1500kg with a kerb weight of 1565kg

my van fully laden is 1425kg unladen 1256kg there abouts and anyway i never fill the van .

this is a good legal match and as i understand it from all the mags and caravan club this how it should be done to be safe and legal.

sorry to go on but i read someone banging on about the fact that a van can weigh more than the cars kerb weight and the kerbweight stated on all cars is only a guideline ,which i thought was a load of rubbish
 
May 27, 2006
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yoikkkkkks!

This threads just made me reach for and read my licence.

Now it was issued in 197 as an update on my car licence when I passed my `bike test.

Theres NO class 'B' on it just----- 'A,D,E*********'. Surely I havnt been towing illegally sinse then. Help somebody please
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I still have the Green paper licence since 1978, this also has A,D,E. Group A covers any vehicle listed on the back of thelicence except group X. D covers the motorbike and E is for a Moped.

Regards Jim
 
Aug 25, 2006
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popup

i passed my test in 1996 and mine says

b , cars only

b,e car plus trailer

c,1,e small lorry plus trailer { code 107 }

d,1 mini bus { code 101 }

d,1,e mini bus with trailer { code 101,119 }

f,k,l,n,p
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Neil again.

I am sorry but you are incorrect: A vehicle can tow any trailer up to the maximum mass permitted by the manufacture. However the driver must make sure that the gross train mass limit of the vehicle is not exceeded. This may mean the trailer or the tug cannot be fully loaded to keep within this limit, but it does mean that in some cases the vehicles are rated to tow trailers that weigh more than the tug - this is perfectly legal. Though it is sensible to keep the trailer mass as low as possible.
 
May 27, 2006
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Thanks Jim C.

Mines the paper version as well but I had MISSED the bit that says.......

*Group A covers any vehicle listed on the back of thelicence except.................etc*

I shall sleep easier tonight now
 
Aug 25, 2006
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Hello Neil again.

I am sorry but you are incorrect: A vehicle can tow any trailer up to the maximum mass permitted by the manufacture. However the driver must make sure that the gross train mass limit of the vehicle is not exceeded. This may mean the trailer or the tug cannot be fully loaded to keep within this limit, but it does mean that in some cases the vehicles are rated to tow trailers that weigh more than the tug - this is perfectly legal. Though it is sensible to keep the trailer mass as low as possible.
if you read any good caravan mag it stats and so do the caravan club that you must not exceed the laden weight of your car even if your car can say it can pull more

this would be very unsafe if your caravan weigh more than your car kerb , if you had to stop very fast your caravan would just keep pushing the car on because it would weigh more than the car

the caravan club always say an 85% is the best match not anymore than a max of 100

if you did this safe match then you would be within your train weight anyway
 
Mar 14, 2005
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The Directgov website is quite clear what you may or may not tow with a Category B licence issued after January 1, 1997. This is the actual text:

Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than 8 passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg. Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle

There is also a useful leaflet issued by the DVLA on the subject of legal towing:

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/leaflets/inf30.pdf
 
Aug 31, 2005
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Lutz :

Please advise how you embed HTML into what appears to me to be a simple ASCII text box; i.e. how did you generate a link that is 'clickable'? Thanks !

John
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Neil, you and your quoted sources, ( if indeed they actually say that it is illegal to tow a trailer heavier than the toewing vehicle), are wrong and John L is correct. It is not illegal to tow above 100%, it may be sensible in normal circumstances but breaking the law it is not. The 85% and 100% guidlines (or rules as they appear to be called) are only guidlines without any legal backing.

If you tow above 100% and cause an accident or incident you would not be open to prosecution on those grounds alone.
 
Aug 25, 2006
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you are right( ray ) it is not illegal to tow a van or anything heavier than your car,but i would not be telling people who are new to caravaning to do this unsafe practice .which i think if there was an accident because the caravan was heavier than the car there would be prosecution.

i know what you are saying is correct but people need to use safe practice for everyone else on the road as well as there family.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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A lot of other factors also determine your margin of safety. Staying below 100% or even 85% doesn't automatically guarantee a safe outfit and doing so without regard to things like weight distribution, tyre pressures, proper noseweight, speed, weather and road conditions, may give one a false sense of security.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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you are right( ray ) it is not illegal to tow a van or anything heavier than your car,but i would not be telling people who are new to caravaning to do this unsafe practice .which i think if there was an accident because the caravan was heavier than the car there would be prosecution.

i know what you are saying is correct but people need to use safe practice for everyone else on the road as well as there family.
Neither would I but that wasn't what you said ( asked?) in your original post where you said it was not legal to do so.

I personally believe we all get hung up on figures e.g it is "safe" to tow at 84% but not at 86% - "safe" to tow at 60mph but not safe at 61mph.

As Lutz said there is a lot more to it than that!
 
Aug 25, 2006
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A lot of other factors also determine your margin of safety. Staying below 100% or even 85% doesn't automatically guarantee a safe outfit and doing so without regard to things like weight distribution, tyre pressures, proper noseweight, speed, weather and road conditions, may give one a false sense of security.
all them other factors go without saying ,and any safe caravaner who has a safe outfit staying below 100% should never have a problem.
 
G

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All true, but like any form of gambling, the more you can reduce the odds in your favour the better. My caravan has the extended A frame as is fitted to many European vans. According to the manufacturer's brochure this gives a similar safety margin at 20 km speeds higher than vans fited with the shorter A frame as per the UK. It doesn't matter to me because I only tow at safe speeds within the law, but the impression is given that you can tow faster safely with this fitted.

So I will follow the 85 % rule because it reduces the 'odds' in my favour.
 

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