Towing Limits

[colin-yorkshire1]

BY GEORGE HE'S GOT IT????

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Mr Bell,
I'm sorry but your statement is still wrong -
Quote
"I think its trying to say you have to use gross weight of car then the max weight of the caravan!???"

You may have the right idea, but your terminology is wrong, and that may lead you up the wrong path. The gross weight of your car is a measurment of what it actually weighs, What you must use is the Maximum Gross Weight which is the top limit and is the same as the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM)

This is where the plethora of differnt terminologies used causes so much confusion.

Consider :-
If you drove your car onto a weigh bridge you would get a ticket that tells how much your car actually weighs - that is its Gross Vehicle Weight. - a measurment of the whole or gross vehicle
The Maximum Gross Weight is the top limit your car is allowed to be which is its Maximum Authorised Mass. - a limit

Your licence cat B referes to the limits (MAM's) not the actual weights

So you do not need to go to a weighbridge to find out if you can drive the outfit on your Cat B you simply need to add the cars MGW or MAM to the caravans MTPLM and if its under than 3500 you can legally drive it.

 

[Parksy]

There appears to be some confusion regarding the meaning of the term 'gross train weight' in this thread. Some contributors seem to interpret it as being the actual weight of the complete outfit, others use the term as referring to the maximum allowable train weight. It is the latter that must not exceed 3500kg in the case of a Category B licence.

Here is what is stated on the government website!

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:

• a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Whereas

• the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
• Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold

so can someone make some sence out of this jargin!!

I think its trying to say you have to use gross weight of car then the max weight of the caravan!???

To cut through all of the clever but meaningless arguments MAM means Maximum Allowable Mass

Vehicle MAM= 2 tonnes + trailer MAM 1.25 TONNES = less than 3.5 tonnes therefore ok on category B
Vehicle MAM=2 tonnes+trailer MAM 1.50 tonnes = more than 3.5 tonnes according to the rules therefore category B no good but B+E is fine
Just look up the figures which are relevant and applicable to you- seemples!!!
p.s. if you are driving a minibus different rules apply but you're probably on the wrong forum anyway if that's the case!

 

[Lutz]

It would probably be easiest if Mr Bell could give us the figures relevant to his outfit and we could use them as an example.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Parksy
Your definition of MAM is not technically correct . see:-
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022708
MAM is Maximum Authorised Mass not Maximum Allowable Mass, though in many ways your definitions is perhaps easier to understand.

 

[JonnyG]

do love it when terminologies get used. In English we would merely say. Add the max weight the car legally can weigh,to the max weight a caravan can legally weigh. if when added together its under 3500kg. then its fine,but also the caravan cannot be heavier than the car.

 

[Lutz]

May I make a correction here? Using the simplest possible terms it would be correct to say:
The maximum legally permissible combined weight of car and caravan together must not exceed 3500kg and the maximum permissible weight of the caravan must not exceed the unladen weight of the car.
Note that the sum of the max weight of the car and the max weight of the caravan is not the max weight of the whole outfit. Also, you say the caravan cannot be heavier than the car, which isn't true, either. The max permissible weight of caravan must not be more than the unladen weight of the car.

 

[JonnyG]

May I make a correction here? Using the simplest possible terms it would be correct to say:
The maximum legally permissible combined weight of car and caravan together must not exceed 3500kg and the maximum permissible weight of the caravan must not exceed the unladen weight of the car.
Note that the sum of the max weight of the car and the max weight of the caravan is not the max weight of the whole outfit. Also, you say the caravan cannot be heavier than the car, which isn't true, either. The max permissible weight of caravan must not be more than the unladen weight of the car.

See there you go again making it so "un common English".

unladen is so 60s! as their is not a easy or legal unladen figure
that can be quoted for a car.but yes my common English stands corrected .

 

[Lutz]

Call it unladen weight or Mass in Service or Mass in Running Order or kerbweight if you like (although there are differences in definition between all four except between Mass in Service and MIRO), but it's certainly not the actual weight of the car that is important and that's got to be made clear. Therefore, you can't simply say "the caravan cannot be heavier than the car". Heavier than the car in what condition?

 

[ProfJohnL]

I know the last few posts may have been a bit tongue in cheek, but there is a serious issue here.

The subject area is littered with far too many acronyms, some of which have no consistent definition, and some that have direct equivalents but have come from other countries or colloquial terms used in different walks of life.

Some times even the official description fails to adequately identify the feature it is describing, or there is no official explanation of the term, Some examples close to the heart of this thread are 'Combined MAM' and kerbweight.

It needs the DfT in conjunction with all the other EU countries to agree and adopt a single set of descriptions and acronyms and legislate so that all manufacturers use the same formats for describing weights, masses and limits and to have unified reference document that accurately describe what each acronym means and how it is measured, calculated or achieved.

 

[xtrailman]

do love it when terminologies get used. In English we would merely say. Add the max weight the car legally can weigh,to the max weight a caravan can legally weigh. if when added together its under 3500kg. then its fine,but also the caravan cannot be heavier than the car.

It would be nice wound,t it.
I have little doubt that the low attendance on this once great site, is down to two individuals.

 

[602]

Hi,
We all know what weight is .... it the figure you read off the scales. For a B licence, the things that matter are the unladen WEIGHT of the tow car, and the maxinum authorised MASS of the trailer. Oh ..... and the maximum authorised MASS of the combination.
But then the Man from The Ministry will start to look at the WEIGHT of each axle, Can an axle be said to have a MASS?
And to do all this, they will use a WEIGH BRIDGE. Surely that should be called a NEWTON METRE?
I was much happier being ignorant ..... maybe I still am?
602

 

[602]

I asume if VW print that the towing capacity is 2500 kg then it is legal to tow to this weight ?
Hi Petera,
Yes......... but not if you only have a Group B driving licence.
The VW can tow that weight, but you can't.
Er ....... A VW Transporter that weighs over two tons (2100kgs) unladen. ????? That sounds like the MGW.

602

 

[Lutz]

Er ....... A VW Transporter that weighs over two tons (2100kgs) unladen. ????? That sounds like the MGW.

No, it doesn't sound unreasonable for a VW Transporter to weigh 2100kg unladen. Depending on the model, the MGW is between 2.8 and 3 tonnes.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ray,

Could you be more specific please?

Then if the Mods and owners of the site agree, they can be suitably reprimanded or blocked from posting.

In the absense of names who are we to assume you mean?

Morcombe and Wise perhaps?