Towing Mirrors on a Renault Trafic

[vardenais]

I'm hoping someone can help with this. I have recently bought a Renault Trafic Sport for towing (long story but we caravan with dogs so its easier) It has very wide mirrors and under each mirror there is another smaller mirror. I did a very short trip recently and my normal towing mirrors would not fit on the van mirrors and I decided that, as I could see perfectly well in the van's own mirrors, to take a chance and not use towing ones. My question is - was I legal? and if not, what mirrors will fit the Trafic? Someone has told me that as the van is classed as "commercial" I dont need the towing mirrors - are they correct?

Aileen

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm hoping someone can help with this. I have recently bought a Renault Trafic Sport for towing (long story but we caravan with dogs so its easier) It has very wide mirrors and under each mirror there is another smaller mirror. I did a very short trip recently and my normal towing mirrors would not fit on the van mirrors and I decided that, as I could see perfectly well in the van's own mirrors, to take a chance and not use towing ones. My question is - was I legal? and if not, what mirrors will fit the Trafic? Someone has told me that as the van is classed as "commercial" I dont need the towing mirrors - are they correct?

Aileen

Hello Aileen,

Private or commercial the issue is if you can see the required field of view.

The test is if when the outfit is parked up in a straight line, if you can see the full length of both sides of the trailer And at a distance of 20 meters rearwards from the driver you can see the maximum width of the out fit + 4M on each side.

If the vehicles basic mirrors do not provide the field of view, you need extension mirrors.

See the diagram on this page

http://www.lifesure.co.uk/blog/2013/06/caravan-towing-mirrors-make-sure-you-know-the-law/

 

[vardenais]

Thank you Prof John - very helpful. The answer to the question of all round vision is yes - in fact far better and clearer than when hitched up to my Mondeo with towing mirrors fitted. However, the caravan is slightly wider than the van so reading the piece on the link you gave, it would not be legal ? Very confused.com

Kind regards Aileen

 

[DeliDave_]

I've got a similar sized van with big mirrors and I use the Milenco grand Aeros,it seems to be personal preference if you have convex or flat,I went for one of each.They clamp on the mirror frame and so far (2 years) seem very secure and stable

 

[vardenais]

Thank you Dave - I'll have a look for the bigger ones - I have Milencos at the moment but they dont fit so will have to get new ones thank you for the reply

Kind regards Aileen

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Prof John - very helpful. The answer to the question of all round vision is yes - in fact far better and clearer than when hitched up to my Mondeo with towing mirrors fitted. However, the caravan is slightly wider than the van so reading the piece on the link you gave, it would not be legal ? Very confused.com

Kind regards Aileen

There is no confusion. it is a physical fact that unless the mirrors are at least a little wider than the caravan, it is impossible to see the whole of both sides of the caravan.How much wider depends on the type of mirror (i.e. flat or convex).

Convex mirrors make objects appear smaller than they actually are, which can make judging distance of other road users more difficult. Flat mirrors will need to stick out further to achieve the required field of view.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Thank you Prof John - very helpful. The answer to the question of all round vision is yes - in fact far better and clearer than when hitched up to my Mondeo with towing mirrors fitted. However, the caravan is slightly wider than the van so reading the piece on the link you gave, it would not be legal ? Very confused.com

Kind regards Aileen

There is no confusion. it is a physical fact that unless the mirrors are at least a little wider than the caravan, it is impossible to see the whole of both sides of the caravan.How much wider depends on the type of mirror (i.e. flat or convex).

Convex mirrors make objects appear smaller than they actually are, which can make judging distance of other road users more difficult. Flat mirrors will need to stick out further to achieve the required field of view.

AH, but that is not the whole story is it John, dont forget the OP is towing with a van!! and not a small one either.
the law states as you say "you must be able to see down both sides of the van, and a distance of 12ft (4mtrs) out from the rear of the van "wide vision" BUT, the mirrors must not extend more than 1in (25cm) wider than the van being towed. so as not to cause a hazard!!
given that a commercial van can be 6ft 6in wide (2mtrs) with a large mirror on stalks that can stick out by a further foot (33cm) the width of the mirrors from edge to edge could be 8ft (2mtr 80cm) already, this is the width of the mirrors not the towing vehicle.
if the caravan is 7ft. 3in wide (mine is) the standard mirrors will fullfill the requirements of the law to the letter. indeed fitting extending mirrors to such an outfit could constitute a hazard as they would be protruding too far out,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,
Yes that is the law, As limitation applies to the witch trailer, the total width of the mirrors will be relative to the trailer not the tow vehicle, so the width hazard is no different for the outfit regardless of what the tow vehicle is.

As so often happens, it is the drivers responsibility to ensure the vehicle is road legal, So the driver must select mirrors to comply.

 

[Gafferbill]

Convex mirrors make objects appear smaller than they actually are, which can make judging distance of other road users more difficult. Flat mirrors will need to stick out further to achieve the required field of view.

........sorry Prof I cannot agree with you statement about flat mirrors needing to stick out further than convex mirrors!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ok, Perhaps I should have written convex mirrors wont need to protrude as far, :blink:

 

[Gafferbill]

Prof......I am sure if you think about it, you will agree that both types of mirror will need to stick out / protrude to the same extent in order to obtain a view of the rear corner of the caravan as the law requires.
If due to the width of the caravan this view is blocked a convex mirror will have to be extended to the same extent as a flat mirror would require.
A convex mirror will give a wider field of view but it cannot see around solid objects such as the front corner of a caravan to reveal the back corner

 

[DeliDave_]

Funnily enough that is true for me,I always struggle a little to see the n/s end corner as my van is 7'6" and have the n/s mirror at full stretch.I wanted convex though as the N/S van mirror is convex and didnt want any confusion.

 

[Sproket]

Funnily enough that is true for me,I always struggle a little to see the n/s end corner as my van is 7'6" and have the n/s mirror at full stretch.I wanted convex though as the N/S van mirror is convex and didnt want any confusion.

Try these arms to get a better view

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof......I am sure if you think about it, you will agree that both types of mirror will need to stick out / protrude to the same extent in order to obtain a view of the rear corner of the caravan as the law requires.
If due to the width of the caravan this view is blocked a convex mirror will have to be extended to the same extent as a flat mirror would require.
A convex mirror will give a wider field of view but it cannot see around solid objects such as the front corner of a caravan to reveal the back corner

Yes as far seeing around the trailer I agree with you, but the ability to see the 4M width is more easily accomplished with a convex mirror, so it doesn't need to protrude as far.

 

[SteveW77]

Funnily enough that is true for me,I always struggle a little to see the n/s end corner as my van is 7'6" and have the n/s mirror at full stretch.I wanted convex though as the N/S van mirror is convex and didnt want any confusion.

Try these arms to get a better view

They work for me.

 

[DeliDave_]

Sir Sproket CJ (BAR).
Thanks for the link I'll give them a try,much appreciated

 

[JimD1]

We tow a 2013 Lunar Clubman SE with a 2009 Vauxhall Vivaro - exactly the same vehicle as a Renault Trafic.

The overall width of the caravan is 2.280m. The overall width of the Vivaro including mirrors is 2.206m.

Whilst the rear view does feel very good with the standard mirrors, it is physically impossible to see down the full length of the caravan - light just doesn't bend around corners, not even with convex mirrors.

We use Milenco grand Aero's which attach fine along the top edge of the Vivaro mirrors. I know that there is an newer version of the Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar now on the market, so things may be different..........

Jim

 

[ProfJohnL]

........... light just doesn't bend around corners, not even with convex mirrors. ....................

I never claimed it did!, which is why the mirrors will always need to be wider than the towed trailer, but with a convex mirror to increase the angle of view to include the 4M at 20M, they doesn't need to be as wide as plain mirrors.

 

[philspot1]

If your existing extension mirrors don't fit very well on the van, try fitting them on the bottom edge instead of the top. I found my Aeros did not like the curved top edge of my VW Transporter T5 mirrors, but they are really solid "upside down", clamped to the bottom.

 

[vardenais]

and thanks to Milenco who have sent me a set of their new clips (made for the new Range Rovers apparently) my old mirrors now fit on the van so problem solved and, they don't stick out to far either so I'm a happy bunny

 

[DeliDave_]

I bought the longer arms as recomended by Sir Sproket CJ (BAR).They were much better and fitting them to the bottom with the clamps spread wider stopped the vibration so big improvement