Towing Mirrors- The Law - E marks

Feb 2, 2007
23
0
0
Visit site
In response to a comment elsewhere on the forum, please look out for the e-mark on your towing mirrors. Unmarked mirrors are illegal and are often dangerous, as they do not meet essential safety standards. Since 2007, E-marks should be in a half inch circle (12mm) to be legal on new vehicles. Smaller, or square e marks are now obsolete. Towing mirrors with the obsolete E marks are only legal when used on older vehicles bearing the same markings.

I hope this helps clarify the situation.

Nigel Milbank

Milenco limited
 
Jan 30, 2008
28
0
0
Visit site
Don't know where you've been Roger, but this subject has been all over the forums, and practical caravan. Mostly about the cheap mirrors from China without the marks being illegal. Mirrors have been e marked for years. My 12 year old milenco mirrors have the marks.
 
Nov 6, 2005
7,934
2,519
30,935
Visit site
freddy - I'm well aware that mirrors and other car components need to be E-marked.

The post from Milenco is implying that existing E-marked mirrors are illegal and need to be replaced.

I can find no reference elsewhere to back this up.
 
Jan 30, 2008
28
0
0
Visit site
Hi Roger.

Having read it for the third time.

"Towing mirrors with the obsolete E marks are only legal when used on older vehicles bearing the same markings."

Make sense to me. 1990 car 1990 mirror ok, 2008 car 1990 mirror not legal. I think it the same with tyres. You cant put old tyres on new cars.
 
Mar 4, 2006
265
0
0
Visit site
Is this a p...take or what? who the hell is going round checking the date of towing mirrors versus year of the car! - get a life!
 
Nov 6, 2005
7,934
2,519
30,935
Visit site
I'm glad I'm not on my own Vernon - it's unworkable - EVERY caravanner changing their car after 2007 HAS to buy new towing mirrors - seems like a scam dreamt up by a mirror manufacturer.
 
Feb 2, 2007
23
0
0
Visit site
I assure you this is not a scam.

The information has been provided to protect the caravaning community from being scammed by buying dangerous illegal mirrors.

In previous years many dangerous mirrors without e marks have been sold to caravanners.

Now that caravanners are aware it is a legal requirement, mirrors are e-marked. This year, we have seen a new scam. Dangerous mirrors with obsolete e-marks being sold as legal.

We could easily write a book referring to all the regulations that relate to towing mirror and in the previous entry; our intent was to make a simple statement that explained the law. I am sorry if the statement was not clear.

When a product is type approved, the approval only lasts a defined period of time. In the case of mirrors 3 years. Then it must be re-tested to the latest regulations and approved again. Generally when there is a big change to the regulations, they change the appearance of the e mark so it's easy to check if the mirrors approved to the current standard.

The regulations are continuously changing for safety reasons. This can be especially seen on truck mirrors where they have 2 or 3 different e marks from the testing over the years. The towing mirrors have to pass the same tests as the tow car door mirror and be made to the same standard. If you buy a new car today and a new pair of our towing mirrors it is probable that those mirrors will be legal for the life of the vehicle.

In five years time it is quite possible the mirrors we sell today may not be legal to sell, because of safety updates in the regulations. If so, we will have to update them to comply and in all likelihood there will be a new e mark, so it will be easy to see the mirrors comply with the new regulations.

The current e mark is a round circle 12-mm in diameter with an upper case E. The obsolete e marks are a small rectangle with a lower case e and a small 8-mm circle with an E.

We have provided this information so you can avoid out of date products that do not meet current safety standards.

If you have bought mirrors in the past with these marks, then they are perfectly legal to use on the cars that were new at the time these marks were legal. These cars will have the same e-marks on the door mirrors, so it is easy to check.

To the letter of the law if you buy a new car and use the old mirror approved to the obsolete standard, you will be breaking the law for "construction and use". You can be fined up to
 
Mar 14, 2005
987
0
0
Visit site
Well I have a pair of towing mirrors that are made for vauxhall vectra cars,not the clip on type as made by milenco, which i tried first and soon dumped because they used to vibrate and made looking through the mirror to see what vehicles were about to overtake vertually invisable, the mirrors i have are special made for vauxhall and supplied through their dealerships (or Ebay s/hand).Cannot find any E marks I will have to change them if and when i purchase a new car as they only suitable for vectras up to 2002, they changed the shape of the external mirrors , but have made mirrors to suit.
 
Feb 2, 2007
23
0
0
Visit site
Well I have a pair of towing mirrors that are made for vauxhall vectra cars,not the clip on type as made by milenco, which i tried first and soon dumped because they used to vibrate and made looking through the mirror to see what vehicles were about to overtake vertually invisable, the mirrors i have are special made for vauxhall and supplied through their dealerships (or Ebay s/hand).Cannot find any E marks I will have to change them if and when i purchase a new car as they only suitable for vectras up to 2002, they changed the shape of the external mirrors , but have made mirrors to suit.
The genuine vauxhall mirrors are e marked on the back of the mirror heads.
 
May 4, 2005
2,622
0
0
Visit site
"Please take note, if your car windows are down, and you clip a gate post with these illegal mirrors, you could loose an eye."

Oh yes the papers are full of cases of this happening ...Lmao

What next ..rubber tips on every tree branch.
 
Apr 9, 2006
1,011
0
0
Visit site
Many years ago we were towing along a single track road in the Highlands of Scotland and pulled into a passing place and stopped, as a vehicle ahead was coming our way. It was a Post Office van which hurtled past us, hitting the offside towing mirror and as it did so, glass flew everwhere. The driver must have known he'd hit us, but carried on into the distance without slowing down.
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
11,904
2,399
40,935
Visit site
Here we have a perfectly reasonable post from someone involved in the trade who is trying to prevent caravanners from being ripped off by explaining what we should look for when buying towing mirrors so that we are in compliance with the law. The newspapers are not full of people being blinded by breaking glass from towing mirrors but inferior mirrors that are made in China are definitely on sale in this country.

Imho it is a good thing for product manufacturers to be involved in caravan forums giving advice 'direct from the horses mouth' as it were. Swift Leisure have led the way in helping and advising caravanners on this and other forums and if other product manufacturers are prepared to 'stick their heads above the parapet' on here then they deserve our gratitude and thanks.
 
May 4, 2005
2,622
0
0
Visit site
My post wasn't aimed at Nigel but at changing old e marked products with the new e mark. Change for the sake of change not because of a history of (un)safety.

My old mirrors are ok on my old car but if fitted to a new car all of a sudden become un safe .How does that work then ?
 
Nov 29, 2007
667
0
0
Visit site
My post wasn't aimed at Nigel but at changing old e marked products with the new e mark. Change for the sake of change not because of a history of (un)safety.

My old mirrors are ok on my old car but if fitted to a new car all of a sudden become un safe .How does that work then ?
In the same way that your old car stopped without ABS but your new car doesn't.
 
May 4, 2005
2,622
0
0
Visit site
Chris

31 Jan 2008 01:32 PM In the same way that your old car stopped without ABS but your new car doesn't.

Yes a big safety feature and has no doubt saved a lot of lives and injuries but not really a good comparison is it.

I wonder how many people are killed and injured each year by "old" e marked towing mirrors.

Overpaid people finding a solution for something thats not a problem.

What a waste of money .

Brian
 
Feb 2, 2007
23
0
0
Visit site
I can answer this question in part. According to government research, http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/archive/2005/fitmirvis/partialregulatoryimpactasses1593,

Directive 2003/97/ec will save 20 lives and 102 serious injurys.

May I point out this regulation change was only one of very many directives made to save lives.
 
May 4, 2005
2,622
0
0
Visit site
Ok got the link now.

I note the figures you quote actually relate to visibility from goods vehicle

Option 2 - would lead to a reduction in the numbers of pedestrian, cyclist and car occupant casualties due to collisions with goods vehicles.

Option 2 - is estimated to deliver up to 20.5 fewer deaths and 102.5 fewer serious injuries using Departmental casualty values (fatal =
 
Feb 2, 2007
23
0
0
Visit site
According to the Impact assesment, 2003/97 would lead to a reduction in the numbers of pedestrian, cyclist and car occupant casualties due to collisions avoided, by improved vision.

I just used this as an example. New regulations need to be justified by an impact assesment, before they become law.
 
May 4, 2005
2,622
0
0
Visit site
Sorry Nigel ,I'm confused I asked

" I wonder how many people are killed and injured each year by "old" e marked towing mirrors."

and you replyed

"I can answer this question in part. According to government research, http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/archive/2005/fitmirvis/partialregulatoryimpactasses1593,

Directive 2003/97/ec will save 20 lives and 102 serious injurys.

May I point out this regulation change was only one of very many directives made to save lives."

Now unless I'm missing something this seems only to relate to goods vehicles

1. Title of proposal

Implementation of Mirrors Directive 2003/97/EC on the Approximation of the Laws of the Member States Relating to the Type Approval of Devices for Indirect Vision and of Vehicles Equipped with these Devices and Directive 2005/27/EC Amending Directive 2003/97/EC, for the Purposes of its Adaptation to Technical Progress.

Note: Directive 2003/97/EC also includes provisions that apply only to cars. These have been dealt with in a separate RIA.

2. Purpose and intended fffect

Objective: To improve the exterior field of vision to the side, front and rear of goods vehicles of mass over 3.5 tonnes with full implementation for new vehicles by January 2007.

Background: In 2003, the European Council and Parliament agreed a new Directive (2003/97/EC) on rear view mirrors for vehicles. The main effect of this Directive was to increase the number of mirrors required to be fitted to new goods vehicles above 7.5 tonnes in order to reduce blind spots; particularly those in close proximity to high-sided vehicles, where the driver often has an obstructed view of pedestrians, cyclists and other vehicles. Since this Directive was agreed, a number of Member States have pointed out that there are some goods vehicles under 7.5 tonnes which also have a relatively high cab and share the same blind spot problems to the side as heavier vehicles. As a result, an amendment to Directive 2003/97/EC has been agreed extending the requirement to fit wide-angle and close-proximity mirrors to certain goods vehicles in the 3.5 to 7.5 tonne mass range. Only those with cabs of sufficient height to enable the mirrors to be fitted at least two metres from the ground and still be visible to the driver will be affected. This amendment has been published as Directive 2005/27/EC and it is intended to implement this new Directive at the same time as Directive 2003/97/EC, with full implementation for new vehicles by January 2007.

Rationale for government intervention: On GB roads over 3,500 people have been killed and 40,000 seriously injured annually in recent years. Although it is difficult to estimate how many casualties result directly from the limitations of current vehicle mirror systems, a recent report by ICE Ergonomics indicated that around 16 people a year are killed in the UK just as a result of the blind spot which exists beneath the windscreen of heavy goods vehicles. TRL Limited has also indicated that around 4 people a year are killed in the UK due to lack of visibility at the sides of heavy goods vehicles and, with the new amending Directive (2005/27/EC) requiring these additional mirrors for goods vehicles of mass between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes, which over a period could save more lives, our broad estimate indicates that approximately 20.5 lives per annum could be saved.

There may be a new ruling on towing mirrors but it doesn't appear to be here.
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
5,684
0
0
Visit site
Some of the main causes of serious rtc's are:

Driver error

Speed, both fast AND slow

Inclement weather conditions

Inexperienced drivers

Now, can someone sum up, do we need to replace our mirrors or not? (as I haven't got time to read all the above).

Lisa
 
Jan 9, 2008
479
0
0
Visit site
Never have been a fan of Milenco gear, E marks along with posts here appear to be profit orientated.

Where are all the dead and injured from mirror accidents?

Nigels data also comes from the same government that pedals Speed Cameras as a life saving aid rather than the truth, Cash Cow!

Scare and mug motorists again with yet more legislation.

We've used same caravan mirrors for over twenty years as they do a better jobs than Milenco and others on the market today, they have also been dropped and swiped hard by other vehicles with out breaking.

No doubt I'll be unable to sleep now.

According to Nigel's data getting on for 60O caravanners have died and nearly 3000 will have been seriously injured due to caravan mirrors in our time caravanning no doubt we have missed this news on sites and in the caravanning press

Note ; Nigel says nothing of the size of the industry around changing E marks and type approval regs and of the potential benefit to him if we all go and update our perfectly fine mirrors.

Also what is the eco cost re change for change sake more landfill, plus more bonus in Niges pocket maybe
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts