Towing weight confusion!!!

[Brian_374383734]

Just putting our toe in the water with our first caravan and trying to understand what weight caravan our 2006 2.2 ltr Mondeo Titanium TDCI 155 can tow.

The Log Book says:-

Max. permissible mass 2015

Mass in service 1478

Max towable mass of trailer 1800

The hand book says:-

EC base kerb weight 1478.

The Caravan we like is a:-

Sterling, Emerald Elite, MRO 1388, MTPLM 1630.

Any advise would be a great help.

Many thanks

Brian T

 

[forestgump]

by what ever way you look at it your car should cope with it

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Brian,

You are seeking a simple yes or no answer, In some cases it is quite straight forward to do so, but with the combination of the car and caravan you have given, along with being new to caravanning this raises some other concerns so a conclusive answer cannot be given.

On balance I cannot recommend the proposed outfit, and depending on your driving licence, it may be illegal for the following reasons:-.

The quick calculation of the theoretical towing ratio:

(Caravan MTPLM/Cars Kerb Weight) x 100% gives us (1630/1478)x 100 = 110%

This sets alarm bells going immediately. Whilst the weight of the caravan is within the manufactures mechanical specification (1800Kg) it is recommended that the ratio should be as small as possible. The Caravan industry offer a guideline of only 85%, and most experienced caravanners wince at anything over or close to 100%

There are some important bits of information that you have not given us.

You have given us the cars mass in service, its maximum permissible mass and its maximum towable mass figures but in addition all cars are given a Gross Train Weight (GTW) figure. This is the largest weight figure stamped on the vehicles VIN plate. This is the heaviest that a car and coupled trailer is allowed to be.

The GTW is important because with some cars when they are fully loaded you cannot then pull the largest trailer as it may exceed the GTW. I do not know if the Mondeos GTW is less than the Combined MAM.

You may be limited by your licence on what you can tow. I note you tells us you are new to caravanning, this might also mean you passed your test after Jan 1997.

The law changed in Jan 1997, and new drivers were not given the +E category after passing their basic test. This limits new drivers to combinations of car and braked trailers that are less than 3500Kg combined MAM. MAM is the Maximum Authorised Mass. (MAM is equivalent to the MPM or GVW or MTPLM). In addition you are legally limited to a combination where the towing ratio is no grater than 100%.

If these limits apply to you are scuppered on both counts. Your car has a MAM of 2015Kg and your caravan has a MAM of 1630Kg that gives a total of 3645Kgm, which exceeds the licence limit of 3500Kg, and the caravans MTPLM is greater than the cars kerb weight.

 

[trucker]

I know my mondeo est is only a 2.0 tdci 130, but I wouldnt tow 1630 with it, what ever way you look at it

Kevin

 

[SteveW77]

by what ever way you look at it your car should cope with it

Once again, someone giving Inappropriate and potentially dangerous advice to a novice.

Steve W

 

[Brian_374383734]

Hello Brian,

You are seeking a simple yes or no answer, In some cases it is quite straight forward to do so, but with the combination of the car and caravan you have given, along with being new to caravanning this raises some other concerns so a conclusive answer cannot be given.

On balance I cannot recommend the proposed outfit, and depending on your driving licence, it may be illegal for the following reasons:-.

The quick calculation of the theoretical towing ratio:

(Caravan MTPLM/Cars Kerb Weight) x 100% gives us (1630/1478)x 100 = 110%

This sets alarm bells going immediately. Whilst the weight of the caravan is within the manufactures mechanical specification (1800Kg) it is recommended that the ratio should be as small as possible. The Caravan industry offer a guideline of only 85%, and most experienced caravanners wince at anything over or close to 100%

There are some important bits of information that you have not given us.

You have given us the cars mass in service, its maximum permissible mass and its maximum towable mass figures but in addition all cars are given a Gross Train Weight (GTW) figure. This is the largest weight figure stamped on the vehicles VIN plate. This is the heaviest that a car and coupled trailer is allowed to be.

The GTW is important because with some cars when they are fully loaded you cannot then pull the largest trailer as it may exceed the GTW. I do not know if the Mondeos GTW is less than the Combined MAM.

You may be limited by your licence on what you can tow. I note you tells us you are new to caravanning, this might also mean you passed your test after Jan 1997.

The law changed in Jan 1997, and new drivers were not given the +E category after passing their basic test. This limits new drivers to combinations of car and braked trailers that are less than 3500Kg combined MAM. MAM is the Maximum Authorised Mass. (MAM is equivalent to the MPM or GVW or MTPLM). In addition you are legally limited to a combination where the towing ratio is no grater than 100%.

If these limits apply to you are scuppered on both counts. Your car has a MAM of 2015Kg and your caravan has a MAM of 1630Kg that gives a total of 3645Kgm, which exceeds the licence limit of 3500Kg, and the caravans MTPLM is greater than the cars kerb weight.

Thanks very much for such a detailed and informative answer John.

A lot to digest and think about.

Thanks Buddy

Brian T

 

[Brian_374383734]

I know my mondeo est is only a 2.0 tdci 130, but I wouldnt tow 1630 with it, what ever way you look at it

Kevin

Cheers Kevin.

Brian T

 

[GeorgeandAde]

I personally feel(and this is just my own thoughts)that the 85% guidline is a very good idea.

I also own a Mondeo 2.2 TDCI 06 reg.and im sure i could tow anything with it.

The engine would pull it.

The brakes would stop it....eventually

But no matter what you do....Stability is the main concern.

Being a HGV driver for over 25 years,i can certainly tell when im fully loaded(yes,there are restrictions regarding the weight i can carry).

Acceleration is slower.

Braking distance is greatly affected.

The more weight,the less stable.

Loading the van,maintaining the van,weather conditions,speed,all play a part which is why i agree with the guidlines.

As i said,this is my own opinion.

 

[Brian_374383734]

Hi Guys

Just been to a Caravan Dealer and he ran a PC program and came up with these match results:-

Kerb (MTPLM/MAW) 109.16%

MAX TOW (MTPLM/MAW) 90.67%

VIN PLATE MTPLM 94.06%

He also said the Gross Train Weight was 3750.

Does this help?

Brian T

 

[trucker]

Brian, if you are waiting for someone to say its ok, well its legal.

What you must remember though is that you have not towed a van before so you dont know the signs of insability or how to drive safely with a caravan on the back.

If you started off with a lighter van you would be able to learn as you go alot more comfortable than you are going to tugging that great thing around with your mondeo.

With those weights quoted A good dealer wouldnt sell you that van anyway, so if they are prepaired to buyer beware!!

As I said above I wouldnt, and Ive been caravanning for over 10 years. Just cus its legal dont make it safe.

Kevin

 

[forestgump]

pleas dont call me a novice i have been caravaning 10 years my job mobile cranes my rig 200 tons my ballast wagon 175 tons tell me about towing no

 

[forestgump]

whats yours steve

 

[Jennifer_374461363]

Whatever way you look at it......it is a very bad match.

Face up to it.....this van is too heavy for your car.

Ignore the advice given on here at your peril.

 

[Jennifer_374461363]

PS.......we have been caravanning for 38 years.

 

[SteveW77]

Sorry Dean, but you can rant and start the mines bigger than yours routine, but the fact remains you gave wrong and dangerous information to someone who has no caravaning experience what so ever. That is all I have to say on this matter.

Steve W

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Brian,

It is my honest opinion that your proposed car and caravan is not suitable as a first outfit.

I'm not going to argue about 1% difference between the dealers figurs and the ones I derived from your infomation, the total ratio is massively above the NCC guideline and well above 100%

The issue is not so much to do with will thw car pull it, yes it will, but what happens when things start to get out of control. That is when your inexpereience is likely to become a significant issue.

I assume because you are pursuing the caravan, that you did pass your test before Jan 1997, Because quite simply if you passed after that date you cannot tow your combination unless you have taken the +E seperate test.

You really should look for a substantailly smaller caravan.

 

[trevgib]

Hi Try this site

http://www.whattowcar.com/
Trev

 

[ProfJohnL]

Always treat the information gatherd from third party sites with due caution. Most of these contain errors, the problem is you dont know which are correct and which are wrong.

If yours is wrong, it might endanger your driving licences or possibily your safety.

Alway check weight limits with the dataplate or relevant handbook for the products you have. You can always check with the manufacturer

 

[Dustydog]

Brian

Any fool can be a macho man!

Listen to the words of wisdom, Dean excepted, and you wont go wrong.

What you propose in my view is absolutely a recipe for disaster.

Also your proposal may well invalidate your insurance cover leaving you wide open to a massive claim if something went wrong. This could result in you losing your home!

All insurance policies contain a "due diligence clause".

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Brian_374383734]

Hi Guys

The message is coming through loud and clear. We will have to look again for a lighter caravan.

Thanks for all of your comments and advice i have taken most of it to heart.

Mant thanks

Brian T