Towing with a Ford Scorpio Ultima 2.3 Auto Estate.

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi to you all out there. Can anyone that has got or had a Ford Scorpio Ultima 2.3 Auto Estate (NOT 2.9) help me with the following.
I am contemplating using a 1997 130,000mile Scorpio Ultima 2.3 Auto Estate to pull our Twin Axle Elddis Crusader SuperSirocco which will be weighing in at around 1700kgs on the move. The following are the aspects that I seek help with.
1. Does anyone know the kerbweight as per EU Directive including fuel & driver?.
2. Will they really cope with 2000kgs?(this is the quoted Max Braked Tow Weight).
3. What are the fuel expectations,Solo and Towing?.
4. What if any are likely pitfalls with the car or any known problems?.
5. Will the rear suspension cope without sitting on the floor,or will it need firming up?.
6. Are there any ongoing issues with ownership & using it as a Tow-car?.

Thank You, in anticipation of your help & guidance.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Rooster,

I don't own or know anyone who does, but two of your points I can answer three aspects of your question.

First and important factor is he mileage the vehicle has on its clock. Fords are not generally renown for being exceptional highmilers, so be very careful about the condition of the vehicle.

Secondly Provide the vehicle is in good condition and close to the manufactures showroom specification, then the car will pull the weight specified by the manufacturer.

Thirdly, and again subject to the car having been maintained properly the car will carry the boot load and nose load specified by the manufacturer.

I do know someone with the 2.3 Galaxy, and it seems to be pretty good reliable motor so far (80k), but its MPG leaves a lot to be desired

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Rooster,
I don't own or know anyone who does, but two of your points I can answer three aspects of your question.
First and important factor is he mileage the vehicle has on its clock. Fords are not generally renown for being exceptional highmilers, so be very careful about the condition of the vehicle.
Secondly Provide the vehicle is in good condition and close to the manufactures showroom specification, then the car will pull the weight specified by the manufacturer.
Thirdly, and again subject to the car having been maintained properly the car will carry the boot load and nose load specified by the manufacturer.
I do know someone with the 2.3 Galaxy, and it seems to be pretty good reliable motor so far (80k), but its MPG leaves a lot to be desired

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi Prof John L,
Thank you for your reply. it is interesting how peoples experience with cars can differ so wildly. I have run a 3ltr Ford Capri Ghia Auto and three Ford Auto Granada Estates to mileages 240,000/245,000/185,000/248,000 and a Rover 825i Sterling Auto to 242,000miles and my current Volvo V70 T5 CD Auto is at 195,600 all used as tow vehicles with trailers and a mix of single and twin axle caravans. The car that interests me the most will be evaluated on Thursday 16th Dec it has 125,000;certified mileage from all MoT certificates from new to the current active one,it has documented service history with all receipts for work carried out etc. It has never towed and does not have towing gear fitted. I have since spoken to the Ford Technical (0906 number) and they have confirmed that the kerbweight would be 1769kgs as per EU Directive,also that the maximum towing weight(braked)is 2000kgs. This is never going to be put to the test as the van will only be loaded to 1650/1700kgs. If the Scorpio performs well as a tow-car then I will sell the Volvo. I may well have Grayson Spring Assister's fitted.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Rooster,

It is never necessary to add spring assisters. If the rear of a car is to low and it is catching bumps etc, then it is down to one or a combination of three things:-

1 The car is overloaded (Assisters do not increase the load capacity of the car)

2 The suspension or running gear is worn, broken or tyes under inflated

3 The driver is expecting too much of the car. (Driven too fast over bumps etc)

The only reason for fitting assiters to to change the appearance of the outfit.

The fitting of spring assisters is a modification, and should be reported to your insurers.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi Prof,Yes well maybe in reality you are correct with/about your opening statement,BUT that is an indirect accusation aimed at all of the companies that make and or fit them.There is therefore an awful lot of Rip-Off going on out there and an equally large number of idiotic people that allow themselves to be succoured in,including me.
I for one do not drive over bumps/Sleeping Bobbies/Traffic Calming Measures/Entrance Bars with anything other than extreme caution,WITH or WITHOUT a caravan/trailer on the back. In my case they have never been fitted to specifically change the appearance of a vehicle,but yes this can happen by elevating the rear a small amount.
I chose to fit them as a quick & easy option rather than a strip-down to gain a slightly firmer ride over and above the standard for the vehicles that they were fitted to. Yes, I am more than aware of the 'Modification' ruling and the lesser known interpretations of the factors that can often govern the meaning.
In the case of the Scorpio it comes with self levelling suspension as standard on the Estate Cars,the system functions through hydropneumatic self pumping shock absorbers.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Rooster,

The comments I made regarding the ‘need’ for spring assistors is a statement of fact, It is not a pop at all the companies that make them. Look at it from another perspective, If they were ‘needed’ then that automatically implies the car manufacturers are producing cars not fit for purpose – and we don’t see manufactures being sued left right and centre so the companies that do produce and fit these things are only servicing the whims of motorists.

It is also misguided to say that because another model in the range has adjustable ride height that it is ok to fit spring assistors to the more basic models.. The OEM fitted systems will have been fully tested and set up to ensure the vehicle remains within its safe operating envelope. Off the shelf aftermarket systems are not proven to be within the vehicles SOE – unless the vehicle manufacture offers them as an approved accessory.

Whilst I know this does not apply to the Scorpio, there is also a danger with very recent cars fitted with dynamic vehicle control or Electronic Stability Controls systems, where ride height and other sensors are used to detect undesirable vehicle motions. By changing the ride height with an after market spring assistor, the wrong signals will be fed to the ESC and that will corrupt its ability to output the correct safety signals.

So I return to the statement there is never a ‘need’ to fit spring assistors.

Having said that, it is down to personal choice and that choice can be better made being in possession of the facts.

 

[mozzy]

i can help with the mileage, as mechanic and ford lover i can vouch for fords engines and 130k on the 2.3 is nothing, older cvh engines never really got on well but the i4 engine in yours (same engine as fitted to the escort rs 2000 except the escorts is a 2.0 but same engine design) i have seen basic 1.8 zetec ford engines doing in excess of 300k and still going just fine, fords 1.8 diesel in all its derivatives is very very good and will easily cover 250k+ if serviced properly, the duratec is super reliable and covers huge miles with ease.... no info on the new ecoboost engines as there to new to tell yet..... the ford 2.0 diesel is actually a psa engine same as found in citreons, peugeots, volvos, jaguars etc etc, they cover huge miles easily (i had a citroen c4 vts 2.0 16v hdi, remapped to 169 bhp and that completed 237 k before the the first major issue which was partical filter ecu,) ford use that engine and have perfected the electronics which are french friends have not yet.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

i can help with the mileage, as mechanic and ford lover i can vouch for fords engines and 130k on the 2.3 is nothing, older cvh engines never really got on well but the i4 engine in yours (same engine as fitted to the escort rs 2000 except the escorts is a 2.0 but same engine design) i have seen basic 1.8 zetec ford engines doing in excess of 300k and still going just fine, fords 1.8 diesel in all its derivatives is very very good and will easily cover 250k+ if serviced properly, the duratec is super reliable and covers huge miles with ease.... no info on the new ecoboost engines as there to new to tell yet..... the ford 2.0 diesel is actually a psa engine same as found in citreons, peugeots, volvos, jaguars etc etc, they cover huge miles easily (i had a citroen c4 vts 2.0 16v hdi, remapped to 169 bhp and that completed 237 k before the the first major issue which was partical filter ecu,) ford use that engine and have perfected the electronics which are french friends have not yet.

Hi mozzy,and to you all. The Scorpio that I first looked at and was ready to buy did not happen.In the light of a few items that needed looking at I thought that it was over-priced. I later found out that it had been for sale at the garage since July !!!,why ?. I believe that is still there or if not it has only just gone. In fact I found a considerably better one in Reading and with 125,00 miles,(not that that really mattered) just before Christmas,both needed towing gear fitting anyway. I am awaiting that to be done on Wednesday 2nd February. I understand that the 2.3 engine is not only a development on the RS 2000 unit but it is also the same as is fitted into the Galaxy,albeit the Galaxy is mounted in the transverse position. I have never had a problem with the larger Ford engines, having run 2litre, 2.8, 2.8i & 3litre up to and beyond 245,000 miles.
My main concern was/is the 4ALDE Auto box,I had a failure at 125,000 with the 4ALD as was fitted in the Sierra 2.0 Ghia Auto Estate that got rear ended by a woman in the pouring rain in Warrington Town Centre in November of 2000, only 1300 miles into a fully rebuilt and improved box. I was stationary with the handbrake on in a line of traffic. She had a mobile phone down her throat,and further down after the impact,an immaculate car written off. I wonder if the claimed 2000kg maximum braked towing weight of the Scorpio is down to the fact that the car is rear wheel drive?,weight over the rear axle and not causing potential loss of traction as would be the case with front wheel drive. The car is going into the same auto box specialist that rebuilt my 4ALD to have a transmission fluid & filter service done before the car tows any-where other than a run around the local arterial route for a suck it and see trip. The claimed kerbweight is equated to 1769kgs. I will however unlikely go above 1650kgs with the 1750kgs MTPLM twin axle caravan that we have. Under utilised,yes but it is used as a large comfortable 2berth. The certificated MiRO of 1440kgs gives a sufficient margin for two in the payload,what will not go in the van,the Scorpio Estate will swallow with ease. I will also be taking into account that the Scorpio is only 144bhp. Then again I will not be tackling Monte Blanc. I am considering looking at the possibility of having the car remapped in a bid to gain a few more bhp and improve efficiency,subject to an enquiry at my insurers before-hand.

 

[mozzy]

a remap would only take you to app 150-155 bhp, but bhp is not a factor you should worry about when towing, its the torque, your car has 148 lb/ft of torque that is enough to drag a caravan comfortably
the 2.3 in your car is commonly used in modifying rs2000s, the rs2000 has 150 bhp and 140lb/ft as a 2.0 (strangely more power than the 2.3 but less torque) what people do now is fit the rs2000 head to a 2.3 block which will take is to app 185-190 bhp and 200lb/ft

if you were handy with the spanners you could do this conversion yourself but its alot just to make a tow car. another option would be to find a scorpio 2.5 td, that only has 113 bhp but it also has 199lb/ft meaning it would pull a house down lol

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

a remap would only take you to app 150-155 bhp, but bhp is not a factor you should worry about when towing, its the torque, your car has 148 lb/ft of torque that is enough to drag a caravan comfortably
the 2.3 in your car is commonly used in modifying rs2000s, the rs2000 has 150 bhp and 140lb/ft as a 2.0 (strangely more power than the 2.3 but less torque) what people do now is fit the rs2000 head to a 2.3 block which will take is to app 185-190 bhp and 200lb/ft

if you were handy with the spanners you could do this conversion yourself but its alot just to make a tow car. another option would be to find a scorpio 2.5 td, that only has 113 bhp but it also has 199lb/ft meaning it would pull a house down lol

Hi Mozzy. The RS 2000 head on the 2.3 block sounds like a worthwhile excercise,I have a nephew that is a Motor Mechanic with his own business and having been trained with Road Range & Cicily he has specialised in Mercedes. He would eat that job. His father (my brother) had an RS 2000 in Modena Green from new. He used to go wild in the back (A Petrol Head in the making) when he was tacken out in the baby seat having been fastened into the back of the car.