Jul 23, 2024
3
0
10
Visit site
Hi I'm after a bit of advise please.

Looking at buying a caravan and the unladen weight of the van is 1182kg and the laden weight is 1400kg.

My car can legally tow 1300kg.

Just wondering if it would be legal for me to tow?

I tow trailers everyday as part of my job so I would class myself as a experienced driver when it comes to towing.

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Nov 11, 2009
21,616
6,954
50,935
Visit site
Hi I'm after a bit of advise please.

Looking at buying a caravan and the unladen weight of the van is 1182kg and the laden weight is 1400kg.

My car can legally tow 1300kg.

Just wondering if it would be legal for me to tow?

I tow trailers everyday as part of my job so I would class myself as a experienced driver when it comes to towing.

Any help would be much appreciated.
You can tow it providing you don’t load the caravan above 1300kg. You only have 118 kg available. If it has a mover that has to be taken from your payload. Similarly the battery comes out of payload, and I suspect that as you have quoted Unladen Weight it’s an older model. In which gas gas cylinder comes out of payload. So basically you will need to carry most kit in the car.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GaryB
Jan 20, 2023
998
842
1,135
Visit site
As OC has said above, it can be done legally, I used to regularly tow a 3500kg MTPLM trailer behind a car with an 1800kg limit as the trailer was lightly loaded. However, given a caravan has a very tight loading margin anyway you might struggle to load it within your needed limits.
 
Nov 11, 2009
21,616
6,954
50,935
Visit site
Just wondering what the rule of thumb is.

My car weighs 1560 and I have been reading up it is good practise to do 85% of kerbs weigh of the car is what you can tow up to.

Can you go over the 85% ?

@GaryB
@otherclive
Yes it’s only a guide aimed at those new to towing caravans. These flimsy boxes behave differently to other trailers and are subject to wind, speed, loading distribution, other vehicle buffeting, road perturbations etc. But the 85% guide goes back quite a way and in that time car performance has improved wrt suspension and handling. A useful phrase is keep car heavy and caravan light.

If your caravan is kept to 1300 kg and cars kerbweight is 1560 kg you are at 83% so okay. But your main problem will be keeping the caravan to 1300 kg especially when gas, battery, possible mover etc will take around 65-70 kg as a ball park figure. What car do you drive?
 
  • Like
Reactions: GaryB
Mar 14, 2005
18,093
3,398
50,935
Visit site
The 85% suggestions is only advisory it has no legal basis. BUT the principle of keeping the weight of a trailer as small as possible should not be dismissed out of hand.

Caravans by virtue of their size and low density present a difficult trailer as they are very easily affected by the windage from other vehicles, and from just side winds. It is just plain sensible to keep caravans as small as possible.

The previous replies are correct. The legal limit is the tow vehicles Gross Train Weight, which is the maximum coupled weight limit of the entire outfit.

Other clive has already pointed out the likely problem with the load margin of the caravan. Its going to be quite small, and it will mostly be used up with items like caravan battery, pots and pans, EHU lead wheel chocks or ramps, waste and freshwater containers, cutlery, .... the essential living equipment and that's before personal items like clothes boots, bedding, food and drinks, Dare I mention makeup.

There is a possibility you might be able to extend your available capacity in the because of the way the weight and load limits are technically defined. This will only work for you becasue you have a caravan whose MTPLM is greater than the braked towed weight limit of your car.

The MTPLM of a trailer is the maximum limit for the weight of the whole trailer. Importantly this includes the nose load distribution of the trailer.

The cars braked towed weight limit only applies to the load carried by the trailers road wheels, it ignores the nose load. This is becasue the nose load is "carried" by the car and forms part of the cars loading.

Legally you could increase your apparent load margin in the caravan by the amount of nose load you create and apply to the car. The problem is knowing what that value is - which needs to be measured.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GaryB
Jul 23, 2024
3
0
10
Visit site
Yes it’s only a guide aimed at those new to towing caravans. These flimsy boxes behave differently to other trailers and are subject to wind, speed, loading distribution, other vehicle buffeting, road perturbations etc. But the 85% guide goes back quite a way and in that time car performance has improved wrt suspension and handling. A useful phrase is keep car heavy and caravan light.

If your caravan is kept to 1300 kg and cars kerbweight is 1560 kg you are at 83% so okay. But your main problem will be keeping the caravan to 1300 kg especially when gas, battery, possible mover etc will take around 65-70 kg as a ball park figure. What car do you drive?
Sorry only just seen this.
My car is a zafira tourer se 1.4T
 
Mar 14, 2005
9,867
750
30,935
lutzschelisch.wix.com
Hi I'm after a bit of advise please.

Looking at buying a caravan and the unladen weight of the van is 1182kg and the laden weight is 1400kg.

My car can legally tow 1300kg.

Just wondering if it would be legal for me to tow?

I tow trailers everyday as part of my job so I would class myself as a experienced driver when it comes to towing.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Firstly, the 1300kg is not a legal limit but only a limit to which the manufacturer accepts product liability. Only the plated axle load, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight limits are legal limits.
Secondly, the 1300kg does not include the noseweight so you still have a small margin available even though you wouldn’t be able to load the caravan up to 1400kg unless the noseweight is 100kg or more without exceeding the manufacturer’s towload limit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dustydog and GaryB
Aug 12, 2023
487
207
935
Visit site
Firstly, the 1300kg is not a legal limit but only a limit to which the manufacturer accepts product liability. Only the plated axle load, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight limits are legal limits.
Secondly, the 1300kg does not include the noseweight so you still have a small margin available even though you wouldn’t be able to load the caravan up to 1400kg unless the noseweight is 100kg or more without exceeding the manufacturer’s towload limit.
I don't understand why weight on drawbar should change things. Just because there 100kgs of down mass on towbar doesn't mean there is 100kg less mass and its horizontal inertia pushing the car around. Also there is still 1400kg to accelerate with all force going through tow bar and its mounting points.
 
Mar 14, 2005
9,867
750
30,935
lutzschelisch.wix.com
I don't understand why weight on drawbar should change things. Just because there 100kgs of down mass on towbar doesn't mean there is 100kg less mass and its horizontal inertia pushing the car around. Also there is still 1400kg to accelerate with all force going through tow bar and its mounting points.
Nobody has said that there is any less mass, but the car isn't towing all that mass. The remainder, the noseweight, isn't being towed but carried by the car and is part of its overall weight. In other words, the car is heavier when the caravan is hitched to it.
 
Mar 14, 2005
18,093
3,398
50,935
Visit site
I don't understand why weight on drawbar should change things. Just because there 100kgs of down mass on towbar doesn't mean there is 100kg less mass and its horizontal inertia pushing the car around. Also there is still 1400kg to accelerate with all force going through tow bar and its mounting points.
This matter could be one of the many differences between EU (& UK) regulations and other parts of the world. See Lutz's response at #11
 
Jul 18, 2017
13,555
3,940
40,935
Visit site
Firstly, the 1300kg is not a legal limit but only a limit to which the manufacturer accepts product liability. Only the plated axle load, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight limits are legal limits.
Secondly, the 1300kg does not include the noseweight so you still have a small margin available even though you wouldn’t be able to load the caravan up to 1400kg unless the noseweight is 100kg or more without exceeding the manufacturer’s towload limit.
Would that still apply if the vehicle is loaded up to its gross maximum weight?
 
Nov 11, 2009
21,616
6,954
50,935
Visit site
Would that still apply if the vehicle is loaded up to its gross maximum weight?
Whatever the mass of the caravan its nose load transfers to the car, and doesn't become part of the towed load. So even at 1400kg the nose load can be deducted, but of course the OPs car is limited to 1300kg towed load.
 
Mar 14, 2005
9,867
750
30,935
lutzschelisch.wix.com
Would that still apply if the vehicle is loaded up to its gross maximum weight?

If the car is loaded up to its gross maximum weight before the caravan is hitched, then it will be overloaded after hitching. Gross vehicle weight is the sum of the front and rear axle loads, and I think no-one will deny that the rear axle load increases when the caravan is hitched to the car.

This matter could be one of the many differences between EU (& UK) regulations and other parts of the world. See Lutz's response at #11

I don't understand what regulations have anything to do with the subject. That the noseweight influences the car's rear axle load and consequently its overall weight is totally independent of where in the world the outfit is, regardless of any regulations.
 
Last edited:
Jul 18, 2017
13,555
3,940
40,935
Visit site
Whatever the mass of the caravan its nose load transfers to the car, and doesn't become part of the towed load. So even at 1400kg the nose load can be deducted, but of course the OPs car is limited to 1300kg towed load.
As per Lutz hitching up the caravan will over load the towing vehicle and probably exceed the gross maximum weight on the rear axle.
 
Jul 18, 2017
13,555
3,940
40,935
Visit site
Watch the gross train weight with the Zafira
Our friends towed with a Zafira and according to him, it virtually died going up hills when towing. Wales was always off the menu for them. LOL! He also complained that it never felt very stable, but i have no idea what he meant by that.
 
Mar 14, 2005
18,093
3,398
50,935
Visit site
...
I don't understand what regulations have anything to do with the subject. That the noseweight influences the car's rear axle load and consequently its overall weight is totally independent of where in the world the outfit is, regardless of any regulations.
The regulations don't affect the physical properties of the masses, but the definitions of for example towed weight and nose load, and how they integrate into the local regulations might differ. The poster involved apparently resides in NEw Zealand, and has on a number of occasions provided comments which are not compliant with EU/UK regulations.
 
Jul 18, 2017
13,555
3,940
40,935
Visit site
The regulations don't affect the physical properties of the masses, but the definitions of for example towed weight and nose load, and how they integrate into the local regulations might differ. The poster involved apparently resides in NEw Zealand, and has on a number of occasions provided comments which are not compliant with EU/UK regulations.
What makes you think the OP resides in NZ?
 
Mar 14, 2005
18,093
3,398
50,935
Visit site
Our friends towed with a Zafira and according to him, it virtually died going up hills when towing. Wales was always off the menu for them. LOL! He also complained that it never felt very stable, but i have no idea what he meant by that.
That will depend on which engine was fitted.

However the Zafira Mk1 was notable becasue one of its engine options which I believe was a 2L diesel which was also used in the Cavalier/Vectra of the day the towed weight limit in the Zaf. was something like 1000kg which looked ridiculously small compared to the Cavalier with the same engine. It caught a number of people out.

Apparently the difference was due to cooling restrictions the Zaf's engine bay created.
 
Mar 14, 2005
9,867
750
30,935
lutzschelisch.wix.com
The regulations don't affect the physical properties of the masses, but the definitions of for example towed weight and nose load, and how they integrate into the local regulations might differ. The poster involved apparently resides in NEw Zealand, and has on a number of occasions provided comments which are not compliant with EU/UK regulations.

If the overall weight of the trailer were to be treated as towed weight one would not be able to add the weight of the car to the towed weight to establish the train weight. Any regulation worded on such a basis would therefore be completely illogical. Surely the legislators in New Zealand or anywhere else aren't that naive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ProfJohnL
Jul 18, 2017
13,555
3,940
40,935
Visit site
That will depend on which engine was fitted.

However the Zafira Mk1 was notable becasue one of its engine options which I believe was a 2L diesel which was also used in the Cavalier/Vectra of the day the towed weight limit in the Zaf. was something like 1000kg which looked ridiculously small compared to the Cavalier with the same engine. It caught a number of people out.

Apparently the difference was due to cooling restrictions the Zaf's engine bay created.
It is a 1.4l Zafira.
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts