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Towing

C

Corkey92

Hi I'm after a bit of advise please.

Looking at buying a caravan and the unladen weight of the van is 1182kg and the laden weight is 1400kg.

My car can legally tow 1300kg.

Just wondering if it would be legal for me to tow?

I tow trailers everyday as part of my job so I would class myself as a experienced driver when it comes to towing.

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Corkey92 said:
Hi I'm after a bit of advise please.

Looking at buying a caravan and the unladen weight of the van is 1182kg and the laden weight is 1400kg.

My car can legally tow 1300kg.

Just wondering if it would be legal for me to tow?

I tow trailers everyday as part of my job so I would class myself as a experienced driver when it comes to towing.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...
You can tow it providing you don’t load the caravan above 1300kg. You only have 118 kg available. If it has a mover that has to be taken from your payload. Similarly the battery comes out of payload, and I suspect that as you have quoted Unladen Weight it’s an older model. In which gas gas cylinder comes out of payload. So basically you will need to carry most kit in the car.
 
As OC has said above, it can be done legally, I used to regularly tow a 3500kg MTPLM trailer behind a car with an 1800kg limit as the trailer was lightly loaded. However, given a caravan has a very tight loading margin anyway you might struggle to load it within your needed limits.
 
Just wondering what the rule of thumb is.

My car weighs 1560 and I have been reading up it is good practise to do 85% of kerbs weigh of the car is what you can tow up to.

Can you go over the 85% ?

@GaryB
@otherclive
 
Corkey92 said:
Just wondering what the rule of thumb is.

My car weighs 1560 and I have been reading up it is good practise to do 85% of kerbs weigh of the car is what you can tow up to.

Can you go over the 85% ?

@GaryB
@otherclive
Click to expand...
Yes it’s only a guide aimed at those new to towing caravans. These flimsy boxes behave differently to other trailers and are subject to wind, speed, loading distribution, other vehicle buffeting, road perturbations etc. But the 85% guide goes back quite a way and in that time car performance has improved wrt suspension and handling. A useful phrase is keep car heavy and caravan light.

If your caravan is kept to 1300 kg and cars kerbweight is 1560 kg you are at 83% so okay. But your main problem will be keeping the caravan to 1300 kg especially when gas, battery, possible mover etc will take around 65-70 kg as a ball park figure. What car do you drive?
 
The 85% suggestions is only advisory it has no legal basis. BUT the principle of keeping the weight of a trailer as small as possible should not be dismissed out of hand.

Caravans by virtue of their size and low density present a difficult trailer as they are very easily affected by the windage from other vehicles, and from just side winds. It is just plain sensible to keep caravans as small as possible.

The previous replies are correct. The legal limit is the tow vehicles Gross Train Weight, which is the maximum coupled weight limit of the entire outfit.

Other clive has already pointed out the likely problem with the load margin of the caravan. Its going to be quite small, and it will mostly be used up with items like caravan battery, pots and pans, EHU lead wheel chocks or ramps, waste and freshwater containers, cutlery, .... the essential living equipment and that's before personal items like clothes boots, bedding, food and drinks, Dare I mention makeup.

There is a possibility you might be able to extend your available capacity in the because of the way the weight and load limits are technically defined. This will only work for you becasue you have a caravan whose MTPLM is greater than the braked towed weight limit of your car.

The MTPLM of a trailer is the maximum limit for the weight of the whole trailer. Importantly this includes the nose load distribution of the trailer.

The cars braked towed weight limit only applies to the load carried by the trailers road wheels, it ignores the nose load. This is becasue the nose load is "carried" by the car and forms part of the cars loading.

Legally you could increase your apparent load margin in the caravan by the amount of nose load you create and apply to the car. The problem is knowing what that value is - which needs to be measured.
 
otherclive said:
Yes it’s only a guide aimed at those new to towing caravans. These flimsy boxes behave differently to other trailers and are subject to wind, speed, loading distribution, other vehicle buffeting, road perturbations etc. But the 85% guide goes back quite a way and in that time car performance has improved wrt suspension and handling. A useful phrase is keep car heavy and caravan light.

If your caravan is kept to 1300 kg and cars kerbweight is 1560 kg you are at 83% so okay. But your main problem will be keeping the caravan to 1300 kg especially when gas, battery, possible mover etc will take around 65-70 kg as a ball park figure. What car do you drive?
Click to expand...
Sorry only just seen this.
My car is a zafira tourer se 1.4T
 
Corkey92 said:
Hi I'm after a bit of advise please.

Looking at buying a caravan and the unladen weight of the van is 1182kg and the laden weight is 1400kg.

My car can legally tow 1300kg.

Just wondering if it would be legal for me to tow?

I tow trailers everyday as part of my job so I would class myself as a experienced driver when it comes to towing.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Firstly, the 1300kg is not a legal limit but only a limit to which the manufacturer accepts product liability. Only the plated axle load, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight limits are legal limits.
Secondly, the 1300kg does not include the noseweight so you still have a small margin available even though you wouldn’t be able to load the caravan up to 1400kg unless the noseweight is 100kg or more without exceeding the manufacturer’s towload limit.
 
Lutz said:
Firstly, the 1300kg is not a legal limit but only a limit to which the manufacturer accepts product liability. Only the plated axle load, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight limits are legal limits.
Secondly, the 1300kg does not include the noseweight so you still have a small margin available even though you wouldn’t be able to load the caravan up to 1400kg unless the noseweight is 100kg or more without exceeding the manufacturer’s towload limit.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why weight on drawbar should change things. Just because there 100kgs of down mass on towbar doesn't mean there is 100kg less mass and its horizontal inertia pushing the car around. Also there is still 1400kg to accelerate with all force going through tow bar and its mounting points.
 
trevormonty said:
I don't understand why weight on drawbar should change things. Just because there 100kgs of down mass on towbar doesn't mean there is 100kg less mass and its horizontal inertia pushing the car around. Also there is still 1400kg to accelerate with all force going through tow bar and its mounting points.
Click to expand...
Nobody has said that there is any less mass, but the car isn't towing all that mass. The remainder, the noseweight, isn't being towed but carried by the car and is part of its overall weight. In other words, the car is heavier when the caravan is hitched to it.
 
trevormonty said:
I don't understand why weight on drawbar should change things. Just because there 100kgs of down mass on towbar doesn't mean there is 100kg less mass and its horizontal inertia pushing the car around. Also there is still 1400kg to accelerate with all force going through tow bar and its mounting points.
Click to expand...
This matter could be one of the many differences between EU (& UK) regulations and other parts of the world. See Lutz's response at #11
 
Lutz said:
Firstly, the 1300kg is not a legal limit but only a limit to which the manufacturer accepts product liability. Only the plated axle load, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight limits are legal limits.
Secondly, the 1300kg does not include the noseweight so you still have a small margin available even though you wouldn’t be able to load the caravan up to 1400kg unless the noseweight is 100kg or more without exceeding the manufacturer’s towload limit.
Click to expand...
Would that still apply if the vehicle is loaded up to its gross maximum weight?
 
Buckman said:
Would that still apply if the vehicle is loaded up to its gross maximum weight?
Click to expand...
Whatever the mass of the caravan its nose load transfers to the car, and doesn't become part of the towed load. So even at 1400kg the nose load can be deducted, but of course the OPs car is limited to 1300kg towed load.
 
Buckman said:
Would that still apply if the vehicle is loaded up to its gross maximum weight?
Click to expand...

If the car is loaded up to its gross maximum weight before the caravan is hitched, then it will be overloaded after hitching. Gross vehicle weight is the sum of the front and rear axle loads, and I think no-one will deny that the rear axle load increases when the caravan is hitched to the car.

ProfJohnL said:
This matter could be one of the many differences between EU (& UK) regulations and other parts of the world. See Lutz's response at #11
Click to expand...

I don't understand what regulations have anything to do with the subject. That the noseweight influences the car's rear axle load and consequently its overall weight is totally independent of where in the world the outfit is, regardless of any regulations.
 
Last edited:
otherclive said:
Whatever the mass of the caravan its nose load transfers to the car, and doesn't become part of the towed load. So even at 1400kg the nose load can be deducted, but of course the OPs car is limited to 1300kg towed load.
Click to expand...
As per Lutz hitching up the caravan will over load the towing vehicle and probably exceed the gross maximum weight on the rear axle.
 
Oscarmax said:
Watch the gross train weight with the Zafira
Click to expand...
Our friends towed with a Zafira and according to him, it virtually died going up hills when towing. Wales was always off the menu for them. LOL! He also complained that it never felt very stable, but i have no idea what he meant by that.
 
Lutz said:
...
I don't understand what regulations have anything to do with the subject. That the noseweight influences the car's rear axle load and consequently its overall weight is totally independent of where in the world the outfit is, regardless of any regulations.
Click to expand...
The regulations don't affect the physical properties of the masses, but the definitions of for example towed weight and nose load, and how they integrate into the local regulations might differ. The poster involved apparently resides in NEw Zealand, and has on a number of occasions provided comments which are not compliant with EU/UK regulations.
 
ProfJohnL said:
The regulations don't affect the physical properties of the masses, but the definitions of for example towed weight and nose load, and how they integrate into the local regulations might differ. The poster involved apparently resides in NEw Zealand, and has on a number of occasions provided comments which are not compliant with EU/UK regulations.
Click to expand...
What makes you think the OP resides in NZ?
 
Buckman said:
Our friends towed with a Zafira and according to him, it virtually died going up hills when towing. Wales was always off the menu for them. LOL! He also complained that it never felt very stable, but i have no idea what he meant by that.
Click to expand...
That will depend on which engine was fitted.

However the Zafira Mk1 was notable becasue one of its engine options which I believe was a 2L diesel which was also used in the Cavalier/Vectra of the day the towed weight limit in the Zaf. was something like 1000kg which looked ridiculously small compared to the Cavalier with the same engine. It caught a number of people out.

Apparently the difference was due to cooling restrictions the Zaf's engine bay created.
 
ProfJohnL said:
The regulations don't affect the physical properties of the masses, but the definitions of for example towed weight and nose load, and how they integrate into the local regulations might differ. The poster involved apparently resides in NEw Zealand, and has on a number of occasions provided comments which are not compliant with EU/UK regulations.
Click to expand...

If the overall weight of the trailer were to be treated as towed weight one would not be able to add the weight of the car to the towed weight to establish the train weight. Any regulation worded on such a basis would therefore be completely illogical. Surely the legislators in New Zealand or anywhere else aren't that naive.
 
ProfJohnL said:
That will depend on which engine was fitted.

However the Zafira Mk1 was notable becasue one of its engine options which I believe was a 2L diesel which was also used in the Cavalier/Vectra of the day the towed weight limit in the Zaf. was something like 1000kg which looked ridiculously small compared to the Cavalier with the same engine. It caught a number of people out.

Apparently the difference was due to cooling restrictions the Zaf's engine bay created.
Click to expand...
It is a 1.4l Zafira.
 
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