Tragedy in York

[Angus1]

It appears a four year old child on a bike has died following a collision with a car towing a caravan, ON A SITE.

I`m surprised there aren`t more accidents on sites as there still is a proportion of parents who arrive on site and turf their offspring out to play because its `safe`.

However now is not the time for a rant, but for sympathy for the parents and the driver who must be in shock.

Some holiday.

 

[LMH]

Oh my goodness, that is terrible news. The poor child and the poor parents. Yes, the driver must be in shock too.

Lisa

 

[Angus1]

I believe it to be the CC site at Rowntree Park, never been, don`t know what its like but some are less `bike-friendly` than others.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I don't speed on site but have had two close shaves with youngsters of about the same age. Both incidents were similar, them riding their bikes from a footpath between bushes straight out into the road.

None of us know the circumstances of the accident yet but surely 4 year olds haven't any road sense and shouldn't be let loose on their own if that's the case.

I can't imagine how I would feel if it had happened to me but I'm sure it would put some off driving for life.

Truly awful and it would affect everyone on site I'm sure :O(

 

[cokey1970]

Here is the story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/6972333.stm

 

[ValA.]

How terrible for his parents, and family, and of course the poor driver, who I bet is absolutely distraught!

You holiday on campsites because they seem child-friendly, but a four year old is very young and should still be supervised. We've also had near misses with small children, as said usually when they either cycle madly out, or run out without looking. My partner once picked up a small child who had terrible facial grazes after going head over heels following a collision on his bike with something on site. Fortunately his family took him straight to hospital, where he was treated immediately, and within a few days his face was healing well.

 

[Rod_5041370]

Valerie,

You partner was very lucky.

On a campsite a young girl (3/4 years old) on a bike with stabilisers fell off and was pinned beneath her bike. I lifted the bike off and lifted her to her feet, only to be accused by her father of being a paedophile......what will I do in future????

 

[Steve L]

Our deepest sympathy's go out to all involved.

I like most caravanners drive on site at well below 5Mph going forward and much slower in reverse as our caravan has no reversing camera or ability to see through the inside. I often enlist the help of my wife to stand outside as banksman. But more often than not she has to act as bouncer!!

She has to stop neumerous youngsters (some not so young) from running or cycling behind the outfit as we reverse onto the pitch. There have been several near misses over the years.

I've commented before about strangers on site, but just take a second to think as a parent about just what you realy know about the people in the half dozen vans around you.

Not wishing to be alarmist, but the answer is jack. So why do parents allow their children to roam without supervision. And furthermore, just how many actually take the time to educate their entire family about site safety.

Also our support goes out to the site owner and the staff who all must be extremely shocked at such an accident and having to put into action their emergencey plan.

 

[BeemerMal]

This is a tragedy for all concerned and the parents and the driver must be devistated.

Others have said on this board that now is not the time to debate this issue but I think it should be debated now because it is currently "high profile". I don't mean that to be I'm insensative to the plight of the family though.

I think we have all let our children off the leash at campsites because they are generally safe places but everyone should treat site roads as we would a highway and parents should not allow very young children the freedom to go out on the road if they have not been taught the rights and wrongs and that they do understand basic road sense.

How many times do we see cyclists, of all ages, riding the wrong way, cutting across pitches, riding round and round the toilet blocks, a place that seems to be magnetic to youngsters (can't see the facination myself)

How many times do we see cars clearly exceed the site speed limit on site roads. (even saw a kiddie on dads lap steering round the site recently)

The lesson is there for all of us!

 

[Rioja]

This is indeed an horrific accident, and yes, sympathy to all involved. I agree when the issue is fresh is the time to debate, although you do wonder if this is insensitive when some people are suffering the appalling consequences.They may even be PC forum contributors. Normally I would suggest that it is wrong to debate without having the full facts in front of us but in this case it is not really relevant because irrespective of whose to blame ( if one has to apportion "blame" in such tragic circumstances), we are all potentially involved and have a duty to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I think that it is wonderful that children have a freedom to roam on site, that's the great adventure. It is also an opportunity for them to be taught self discipline and respect for others.As for vehicles on site, all too often I have seen the speed limits broken and I admit that I have probably been guilty too. A strict 5mph rule should apply but on open ground it is easy to drift up to 10, even 15 mph. When there are vans about and bushes to hide side roads or children running, 10 or 15 mph can be lethal. Speed does kill because the human brain cannot react fast enough in certain circumstances.

Our first reaction should be to promise never ever to exceed the speed limits on site again.

 

[julie_374316763]

This is indeed an horrific accident, and yes, sympathy to all involved. I agree when the issue is fresh is the time to debate, although you do wonder if this is insensitive when some people are suffering the appalling consequences.They may even be PC forum contributors. Normally I would suggest that it is wrong to debate without having the full facts in front of us but in this case it is not really relevant because irrespective of whose to blame ( if one has to apportion "blame" in such tragic circumstances), we are all potentially involved and have a duty to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I think that it is wonderful that children have a freedom to roam on site, that's the great adventure. It is also an opportunity for them to be taught self discipline and respect for others.As for vehicles on site, all too often I have seen the speed limits broken and I admit that I have probably been guilty too. A strict 5mph rule should apply but on open ground it is easy to drift up to 10, even 15 mph. When there are vans about and bushes to hide side roads or children running, 10 or 15 mph can be lethal. Speed does kill because the human brain cannot react fast enough in certain circumstances.

Our first reaction should be to promise never ever to exceed the speed limits on site again.

has any one been having problems with the new bailey provence seris 6.we have a number of faults too name a few, oven won't stay lit was told too open roof vents@ sky light too create air in c-van, done this kept goin out,shower door won't stay closed was told if it is to be adjusted will ware away through time,was told to drop my stablizer feet down at this side.i think these are not exciple excuses for a new caravan.also we think awning is wrong size 975-1008

 

[Hamer_5041128]

Rioja,

Yes i agree what has sadly happened should make people abide by site speed limits,but equally young children should be supervised. I find more and more young children are not supervised. I would ban the riding of bikes on site. How many times do you see adults riding in the wrong direction? Caravan site roadways are not play areas.Knowing the excellent wardens on this site I sympathise with them and pray that we all learn from this tragic incident.

Hamer

 

[ColinA]

I would think a car going at 10 mph is less dangerous than a 4 year old child cycling flat out.--- to the child that is.

 

[Steve L]

While this is a very tradgic accident, there are several things we as responsible caravanners should do.

keep speed to below 5Mph on site.

Follow any route systems religiously no matter if they do take you longer than doing the 10 mtre dash up the no entry lane.

Do not allow under age, or uninsured persons to drive on site.

Do not allow children to steer cars.

When reversing enlist the help of your partner, or by standers to ensure you get onto your pitch safely.

Finally take 15 minuits to have a family "pow wow" and explain to your youngsters the dangers on camp sites.

Take the care as parents to know what your kids are upto and if another adult comes to talk to you about possible bad behavior, don't jump straight on the deffensive but listen and talk it through. The person is only trying to explain a situation that if left un-checked could end up spoiling everyone's holiday.

Having been through the experience of loosing a child, all be it by natural causes, I can realy empathise with some of the heart ache that all concerned are going through.

It's so easy to say after the event, we should of, what if, or next time. Lets not wait for next time, but start today to do our bit to try to help everyone to have a trouble free, accident free holiday.

Steve L.

 

[oldievanner]

Under present Health & Safety rules, after the investigation I can see the Caravan Club having no option but to ban children from riding bycycles on Club sites in the future. Personally I think this will not be a bad thing, but everybody to their own views.As an aside to above,I have also seen some very irresponsible cycle riding by adults, so maybe they will ban everybody.Time will tell.

 

[AnthonyVJ]

Pete - A child will still run out infront of cars even if they cannot have a bike to ride, supervision and education by parents and caution by drivers .. the only way I think.

 

[jules1962]

While this is a very tradgic accident, there are several things we as responsible caravanners should do.

keep speed to below 5Mph on site.

Follow any route systems religiously no matter if they do take you longer than doing the 10 mtre dash up the no entry lane.

Do not allow under age, or uninsured persons to drive on site.

Do not allow children to steer cars.

When reversing enlist the help of your partner, or by standers to ensure you get onto your pitch safely.

Finally take 15 minuits to have a family "pow wow" and explain to your youngsters the dangers on camp sites.

Take the care as parents to know what your kids are upto and if another adult comes to talk to you about possible bad behavior, don't jump straight on the deffensive but listen and talk it through. The person is only trying to explain a situation that if left un-checked could end up spoiling everyone's holiday.

Having been through the experience of loosing a child, all be it by natural causes, I can realy empathise with some of the heart ache that all concerned are going through.

It's so easy to say after the event, we should of, what if, or next time. Lets not wait for next time, but start today to do our bit to try to help everyone to have a trouble free, accident free holiday.

Steve L.

You have put this in perspective, we can all say what if but lets all be more aware of our speed on any road.

 

[Neil_5041165]

No ball games, no bikes...no point in taking the children they'll have no fun at all at this rate !

 

[Angus1]

Strange, Neil, but i cant see the `fun` in kids getting injured or killed.

Must be question of priorities, you`ll have to explain.

 

[Parksy]

My own sons have grown up now so I dont have school age children. Do they still teach road safety in school like they did when I was a kid? It was drummed into us on an almost daily basis and I can still remember it 50 odd years later.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Angus, do you live in the area of York? If so can you keep us posted on what happened although I doubt if anyone will have the full facts until the inquest.

I think if parents want their kids to ride around the site roadways they should at least be road savvy and understand the one way systems. It's hard for those who have young children I know but I would personally rather have mine alive than off riding their bikes out of the way.

I bet that's the first time anything like this as happened on a club site :O(

 

[ColinA]

fully agree with that LB. Children should be allowed to have fun but they need to be made aware of things that may be dangerous.

Colin.

 

[Darce]

No doubt some will call us miserable old f*rts but having had similar experiences to those outlined above of children riding bikes straight at us whilst looking backwards over their shoulder, riding into our awning and worst of all one child having to be stopped from deliberately running his front wheel over the paw of one of our dogs - we now select adult only sites.

We have a week away next week in Dorset and cannot wait.

But I dread to think how anyone who saw the accident, dealt with it at the time or heaven forbid was involved, feels at this moment. The tragedy of this little four year old being killed is truly awful for all concerned.

As is the case of little Madeleine in Portugal.

Personally I think it really sad that people like us select adult only sites because I really do not think that when my two boys were growing up (25 and 21 now) that we would ever let then ride off out of our sight at aged 4, nor would we leave them in an unlocked apartment whilst we went off to have a meal.

And yes - Steve is spot on when he says that we should have a "briefing" on arrival to remind our kids what was OK and what was not - We did, it helped calm down that "brain out of gear" euphoria that affects us all to a degree when starting a holiday.

I am afraid that from what I have seen - a lot more people will be choosing adult only sites - not because we dislike children - we certainly do not, but the parenting skills of some leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Diane1]

I Agree with a lot thats been already said here. Why was a four year old ridding around unsupervised? My girls were never left out of my sight at that age. But then again was the driver going to fast.

As we are not privvy to all the facts we will never know who is at fault.

 

[cokey1970]

Just done a quick search on the net and found the latest on the accident in yesterday's York Press. There's a photograph of the boy and a tribute from his parents.

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknews/display.var.1662510.0.parents_touching_farewell_to_special_little_boy.php
Martin.