I run a mondeo 2.0 TDCI and have been looking at these tuning boxes that offer better BHP, MPG etc etc anybody using one ?? if so whats your thoughts ??
Tuning Box ??
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Damian
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From all I have read about them it seems a case of buy at your own peril.
They, basically, fool the electronic management to provide more fuel to the cylinders, but any unburnt fuel can bypass the piston rings to the sump, diluting the oil and leading to catastrophic engine failure.
They, basically, fool the electronic management to provide more fuel to the cylinders, but any unburnt fuel can bypass the piston rings to the sump, diluting the oil and leading to catastrophic engine failure.
Hi i have 2.4d volvo v70 163 bhp on a 07 plate with a 6 speed gearbox. my mate had box for his volvo same year and model. ran to france last year and the car only returned round trip 24.5 mpg. used the box this year and got mor bottom end toqure and she returned 28.5 round trip. when running solo the car is better by 6 miles to the gallon and all round better performance. got to give on Tuesday so removed it today. he got it off ebay and paid around
I have had one of these fitted to my mondeo 2.0 tdci 130bhp for a year and it has improved mph and i felt a lot nippier.
it was not a problem at the mot either..
I will shortly be upgarding to a new mondeo 2.2 so hopefully wont need one on that.
Rab
it was not a problem at the mot either..
I will shortly be upgarding to a new mondeo 2.2 so hopefully wont need one on that.
Rab
I bought one of these NEW and fitted it to my 2008 Vectra 1.9 CDTi ( 150bhp).
The car definitely felt punchier ( maybe i was hammering it more ?)BUT was nowhere near as smooth when just being driven normally.
As for increased fuel economy i found that the computer did indeed indicate an improvement however this was found to be false when checked against a proper brim to empty to brim fuel tank check. This i believe is common on many of them!
What you need to remember is that it is essentially a relatively crude device that simply fools the fuel pressure rail into thinking it needs more fuel which of course is what it gets.
I also found that on the "Vectra owners Forum" these boxes were well suspected for causing problems with the DPF valve due to overfuelling which in turn threw an engine management warning light.
I kept mine on for 2 months and was pleased to be shot of it.
My car felt lovely to drive again after taking it off!!!
I now have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 Diesel and would never contemplate fitting another one of these " Tuning Boxes"
I am convinced that people pay the money and then con themselves into thinking that it was worth it.
Your choice but think long and hard.
Darryl
The car definitely felt punchier ( maybe i was hammering it more ?)BUT was nowhere near as smooth when just being driven normally.
As for increased fuel economy i found that the computer did indeed indicate an improvement however this was found to be false when checked against a proper brim to empty to brim fuel tank check. This i believe is common on many of them!
What you need to remember is that it is essentially a relatively crude device that simply fools the fuel pressure rail into thinking it needs more fuel which of course is what it gets.
I also found that on the "Vectra owners Forum" these boxes were well suspected for causing problems with the DPF valve due to overfuelling which in turn threw an engine management warning light.
I kept mine on for 2 months and was pleased to be shot of it.
My car felt lovely to drive again after taking it off!!!
I now have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 Diesel and would never contemplate fitting another one of these " Tuning Boxes"
I am convinced that people pay the money and then con themselves into thinking that it was worth it.
Your choice but think long and hard.
Darryl
They just fool the ecu into believing the fuel rail pressure is lower than it really is. So the pressure is increased to get more power but this throws out the fuel computer. Anyone saying their own economy is improved is reading the dashboard display which will now be about 5-7mpg optimistic.
PRECISELY!!!!
My pile of Merd was also one of the "more expensive" ones which i purchased in the hope of it being superior to a cheaper variant.
Don't say you have not been informed.
Kind Regards
Darryl :- Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 Diesel. (215 bhp and 510nm of Torque as Standard) Oh Joy!!
- Mar 14, 2005
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There are different types of 'boxes', some as the others say fool the existing sensors so the management system tries to compensate, These tend to be cheaper passive units. (I say cheap but for what they are they can be rather expensive)
One of the potential down sides of any increase in power output over the standard model, is the ancillary equipment may not be strong enough to cope with the greater power or torque. Clutches, gearboxes and differentials come to mind.
The MOT is not interested in a tuning chip itself, but if the chip raises emissions beyond the MOT limits then the car will fail.
Some tuning companies offer to remap the ECU to give greater power These tend to be more expensive modifications, and they are not so easy to remove.
There are some manufacturers that use essentially the same engine block in a variety of different powered models. Here the power output is often the result of the engine map stored in the ECU. Upping the power can be as simple as changing the ecu map. But you may still be short on the mechanical strength of other parts in the drive train.
Any change to the power of an engine must be reported to your insurers. They may waive it through, but at least they have been told and cannot use the change as an excuse for declining a claim.
One of the potential down sides of any increase in power output over the standard model, is the ancillary equipment may not be strong enough to cope with the greater power or torque. Clutches, gearboxes and differentials come to mind.
The MOT is not interested in a tuning chip itself, but if the chip raises emissions beyond the MOT limits then the car will fail.
Some tuning companies offer to remap the ECU to give greater power These tend to be more expensive modifications, and they are not so easy to remove.
There are some manufacturers that use essentially the same engine block in a variety of different powered models. Here the power output is often the result of the engine map stored in the ECU. Upping the power can be as simple as changing the ecu map. But you may still be short on the mechanical strength of other parts in the drive train.
Any change to the power of an engine must be reported to your insurers. They may waive it through, but at least they have been told and cannot use the change as an excuse for declining a claim.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Dean
You say
"if its that cheap andd that good ford would fit it as standard"
I am not quite sure what aspect of the subject you are referring to, but, if its related to the ECU mapping, then you must also take into consideration the other mechanical parts, such as those I mention, and the fact that a manufacturer will want to differentiate between similar models and power outputs is one of several defining criteria they may choose to use.
You say
"if its that cheap andd that good ford would fit it as standard"
I am not quite sure what aspect of the subject you are referring to, but, if its related to the ECU mapping, then you must also take into consideration the other mechanical parts, such as those I mention, and the fact that a manufacturer will want to differentiate between similar models and power outputs is one of several defining criteria they may choose to use.
its the post like damian says had friend who struggeld towing with is vitara he got it chipped up to give more power but the main dealer made his warenty void unless it was put back to factory speck the point was if its that easy to make the car more powerfull they would do so for a small cost to production
Dean,
Cars like the VW Golf have various power outputs (140, 170 & 210 bhp)on the same engine, just by remapping the ECU & charging nearly
Cars like the VW Golf have various power outputs (140, 170 & 210 bhp)on the same engine, just by remapping the ECU & charging nearly
- Mar 10, 2006
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And maybe a stronger clutch, stronger gearbox, along with modification to the engine, stronger crankshaft for eg.
I would be surprised if everything was standard for all the three engines. My 171bhp xtrail as i have recently found out, is also physically different, and can be identified by a different pulley belt arrangement.
I would be surprised if everything was standard for all the three engines. My 171bhp xtrail as i have recently found out, is also physically different, and can be identified by a different pulley belt arrangement.
Any modern power unit and drivetrain should be easily capable of handling a 30% power increase.The problem lies in how its acheived.The remaps are nothing short of pathetic,the ebay tuning box,s are so crude in the operation they are infact dangerous to engine life.typical example,recently we were asked to undertake a repair on a power unit which had been "chipped" from brand new(ebay special).On inspection turned out to be a non-starter,reason was,no fuel pressure because the tuning box had jacked the fuel pressure up that much it had split the common rail and an injector body!
If people insist on requiring more power,which is understandable the only product worth looking at is called a steinbauer P BOX. Fiat actually list it as an option.
Its operation is unlike any other where as it does not increase fuel pressure,boost pressure or injection timing.The product only increases fuel injection duration.(injector opening time)
The only downside is price.Hope this is of some use.
If people insist on requiring more power,which is understandable the only product worth looking at is called a steinbauer P BOX. Fiat actually list it as an option.
Its operation is unlike any other where as it does not increase fuel pressure,boost pressure or injection timing.The product only increases fuel injection duration.(injector opening time)
The only downside is price.Hope this is of some use.
These tuning enhancers can only end up costing you dearly in the end by virtue of an expensive engine rebuild.
There's an old yorkshire saying "You get nout for nout".
Simple math tells me that if you put more fuel into the engine, then you are going to travel less for the gallon of fuel supplied. So that blows any increase of fuel economy out of the window.
The only thing a "super chip" or tuning box does is to fool the engine management system into believing it has to run continuously on warm up cycle or run with the choke out as we oldies know it.
If you want more zoom and boom fit a nitrious oxide kit to the engine. That will make it fly, but again the engine will wearout much faster.
What you can do to your car very cheaply is to optimise the ignition timing by using a timing strobe light and moving the cam sensor and crank sensor to achieve the best ingnition timing accuracy you can. Then an old trick known as "polishing and porting" can be used to opimise fuel air and exhaust flow through the engine. Basically to do this you strip the engine and using various modeling grinders you polish all the casting lumps off the inlet manifold, exhaust manifold and engine gas flow apetures. Finally you grind each apeture of the engine and manifold to match eacother size for size. Oh, don't forget to make the gaskets fit the same way.
You will be suprised to find that not only does the engine run smoother, but you do get a fuel economy increase and a performance increase of between 10 - 20%.
The last mod would be to fit a K&N filter to the air intake.
My Laguna has a 1.5 second 0 to 60 time saving and about 3mpg better fuel economy while towing.
ATB TTFN
Steve L.
There's an old yorkshire saying "You get nout for nout".
Simple math tells me that if you put more fuel into the engine, then you are going to travel less for the gallon of fuel supplied. So that blows any increase of fuel economy out of the window.
The only thing a "super chip" or tuning box does is to fool the engine management system into believing it has to run continuously on warm up cycle or run with the choke out as we oldies know it.
If you want more zoom and boom fit a nitrious oxide kit to the engine. That will make it fly, but again the engine will wearout much faster.
What you can do to your car very cheaply is to optimise the ignition timing by using a timing strobe light and moving the cam sensor and crank sensor to achieve the best ingnition timing accuracy you can. Then an old trick known as "polishing and porting" can be used to opimise fuel air and exhaust flow through the engine. Basically to do this you strip the engine and using various modeling grinders you polish all the casting lumps off the inlet manifold, exhaust manifold and engine gas flow apetures. Finally you grind each apeture of the engine and manifold to match eacother size for size. Oh, don't forget to make the gaskets fit the same way.
You will be suprised to find that not only does the engine run smoother, but you do get a fuel economy increase and a performance increase of between 10 - 20%.
The last mod would be to fit a K&N filter to the air intake.
My Laguna has a 1.5 second 0 to 60 time saving and about 3mpg better fuel economy while towing.
ATB TTFN
Steve L.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Seth,
Your statement "Any modern power unit and drivetrain should be easily capable of handling a 30% power increase." is far too general, and where some manufacturers may fit different power units to a drive train, clearly the higher power units may use up some or all of the 30% you claim.
It would be unwise to assume you have at least 30% to play with, you could end up with a very expensive mistake.
Your statement "Any modern power unit and drivetrain should be easily capable of handling a 30% power increase." is far too general, and where some manufacturers may fit different power units to a drive train, clearly the higher power units may use up some or all of the 30% you claim.
It would be unwise to assume you have at least 30% to play with, you could end up with a very expensive mistake.
So Steve from what youve said with the extra 3mpg,youve stipped and "polished" your engine internals.As for adjusting ignition timing with a strobe,modern engines use non adjustable ignition ecu,s with preset parameters and surly the igition timing would be correct anyway.
John,please explain your statement in regards to 30% being to general.Are you under the impression that say 100,150 hp vw engines all make exactly the same power and are totally uniform,maybe not to the extent of 30% admittedly.
We come accross plenty of engines that when dyno,d make more than the rated hp.These units dont give anymore problems than their counterparts.Would you not agree that modern engines in development stages develope more power than are rated with to the customer due to the fact the element of neglect is taken in to account by the manufacture with people who dont stick to service routines.
Were lucky enough to see insides of dyno rooms being an agent,we are able to calibrate hp by means of oem factory supplied hp calibrations.(not made up by us or bought of ebay)As an example one unit has the capabilitys to start at 245 hp and extend to 500 hp.All with the same components fitted,except for the datafile in the ecm.This far exceeds 30%.
John,please explain your statement in regards to 30% being to general.Are you under the impression that say 100,150 hp vw engines all make exactly the same power and are totally uniform,maybe not to the extent of 30% admittedly.
We come accross plenty of engines that when dyno,d make more than the rated hp.These units dont give anymore problems than their counterparts.Would you not agree that modern engines in development stages develope more power than are rated with to the customer due to the fact the element of neglect is taken in to account by the manufacture with people who dont stick to service routines.
Were lucky enough to see insides of dyno rooms being an agent,we are able to calibrate hp by means of oem factory supplied hp calibrations.(not made up by us or bought of ebay)As an example one unit has the capabilitys to start at 245 hp and extend to 500 hp.All with the same components fitted,except for the datafile in the ecm.This far exceeds 30%.
What do you find about it RAY that winds you up?Have you known me to ever post any wind ups.It was actually a first hand example.What winds me up is the "jacks of all trades"that post on here with little or no experiance.From what i originally said,which was along the lines of power inhancement is not ideal but more so in the way its carried out.We now have issues with what i said about a 30% power uprate being citical.If it was that bad why would Fiat list it as an option?
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Seth,
Can you say hand on heart that all manufacturer standard specification vehicles (including the GTI's etc) can easily handle an additional 30% more power and torque without modifications to any other part of the vehicle. I think it would be unwise in the extreme to make that assumption.
It is also unwise to use just one example i.e 'Fiat' as being indicative of all manufactureres and all models. If as you suggest you are involved in Dyno testing, I am sure there are certain makes and models you would avoid from uprating.
The point is that not ANY cars can withstand a 30% increase only some, and then to cope with the extra power other modifications are usually carried out, uprated springs bigger tyres etc.
Thats when insurance companies take a keener interest in the vehicle and for young cars the manufactures guarantee may be in validated.
Can you say hand on heart that all manufacturer standard specification vehicles (including the GTI's etc) can easily handle an additional 30% more power and torque without modifications to any other part of the vehicle. I think it would be unwise in the extreme to make that assumption.
It is also unwise to use just one example i.e 'Fiat' as being indicative of all manufactureres and all models. If as you suggest you are involved in Dyno testing, I am sure there are certain makes and models you would avoid from uprating.
The point is that not ANY cars can withstand a 30% increase only some, and then to cope with the extra power other modifications are usually carried out, uprated springs bigger tyres etc.
Thats when insurance companies take a keener interest in the vehicle and for young cars the manufactures guarantee may be in validated.
John,as per GTI,S and the like or petrol engined vehicles,i was not refering to.I was talking referance modern diesels only.I.e the op question.
To answer your question,hand on heart yes i would say a 30%uprate would be acceptable.But the way its carried out is the problem i can see as ive already said.If it was an oem fit i,d think it would be acceptable.An ebay special,then no.This was the point i was trying to make thats all.
From reading your post John are you implieing vehicles are built to different standards.
To answer your question,hand on heart yes i would say a 30%uprate would be acceptable.But the way its carried out is the problem i can see as ive already said.If it was an oem fit i,d think it would be acceptable.An ebay special,then no.This was the point i was trying to make thats all.
From reading your post John are you implieing vehicles are built to different standards.
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