turning point

[tony_374376595]

hi everybody.

just received this months magazine in the letters page i noticed that its started kick the 4 x 4 drivers,i like most drivers of four wheel drive vehicles drive them through necessity and freedom of choice we like the security of them and there improved towing performance,if our cars use more fuel so what we pay for it nobody gives it to us!!!! we all pay road tax and slightly higher insurance costs.do we live in a free country ,my 4x4 and many others run on enviromentally friendly lpg,do we recieve any credit for this NO,

if we start to divide then it will be caravaner against caravaner,and they have won.what next some site`s refusing to take owners of 4x4`s,don't laugh it`s coming

 

[John_374224558]

Well said Tony.

It will be the very people that whinge about our 4WD vehicles who will one day need urgently taking somewhere in the snow etc because their 2WD car can't make it.

I've seen it before (some years ago admittedly) and I am sure I will see it again!

 

[Parksy]

Hi Tony

Yes I saw the letter by the envioronista, these nutters make it easier for the government to tax us 4x4 owners off the road.

At a guess I'd say that the letter was printed by the letters editor in order to start a debate and get 4x4 owners to write to the letters page with their own viewpoint.

It all provides copy for the magazine and is a topical subject which affects many of us one way or another so perhaps if we all send letters one of us will be lucky and win 'letter of the week'.

1st prize? Perhaps a weeks camping with the power station protestors and your very own wooly hat and tambourine.

 

[suzanne404]

Well said Tony.

It will be the very people that whinge about our 4WD vehicles who will one day need urgently taking somewhere in the snow etc because their 2WD car can't make it.

I've seen it before (some years ago admittedly) and I am sure I will see it again!

I drive a land rover freelander.4 years ago i broke my back,i had then a ford focus and because of the seating postion i couldn't drive far before i was in so much pain and getting out of it was even worse.I tried a friends freelander and found it brilliant for my back, i can now drive miles without getting any pain and getting in and out excellent.

It is brilliant on diesel ,beating the focus by miles.Infact on a holiday this year to Dorset, my freelander with caravan,drove down on under half a tank, while our friends estate car filled with camping equipment,needed to fill up.

So my point is people should not judge a book by its cover,many people drive 4x4s for many reasons and they are not all gas guzzlers.

 

[Dustydog]

The idiot lot of do gooders , anti 4x4 brigade, will have us all driving around in Trabants soon.

Thank goodness we still live in a democracy ( well I think we do?)

Cheers

Alan

 

[suzanne404]

I drive a land rover freelander.4 years ago i broke my back,i had then a ford focus and because of the seating postion i couldn't drive far before i was in so much pain and getting out of it was even worse.I tried a friends freelander and found it brilliant for my back, i can now drive miles without getting any pain and getting in and out excellent.

It is brilliant on diesel ,beating the focus by miles.Infact on a holiday this year to Dorset, my freelander with caravan,drove down on under half a tank, while our friends estate car filled with camping equipment,needed to fill up.

So my point is people should not judge a book by its cover,many people drive 4x4s for many reasons and they are not all gas guzzlers.

Also i would like to add that i have just had the freelander MOTed and it has a very low CO2 0.24 1/m ,greenies cant moan at that lol

 

[suzanne404]

I drive a land rover freelander.4 years ago i broke my back,i had then a ford focus and because of the seating postion i couldn't drive far before i was in so much pain and getting out of it was even worse.I tried a friends freelander and found it brilliant for my back, i can now drive miles without getting any pain and getting in and out excellent.

It is brilliant on diesel ,beating the focus by miles.Infact on a holiday this year to Dorset, my freelander with caravan,drove down on under half a tank, while our friends estate car filled with camping equipment,needed to fill up.

So my point is people should not judge a book by its cover,many people drive 4x4s for many reasons and they are not all gas guzzlers.

 

[suzanne404]

Also i would like to add that i have just had the freelander MOTed and it has a very low CO2 0.24 1/m ,greenies cant moan at that lol

 

[SteveW77]

Thank goodness we still live in a democracy ( well I think we do?)

Thanks to our antiquated voting system we have not lived in a democracy for many years. Less than 50% of the electorate voted for this government.

Steve W

 

[Dave_374330759]

People just jump on 4wds coz they look big, those who drive big engined other cars and MPVs use the same amount of fuel and in some cases push out more CO2 and other nasties, they just don't don't attract the same resentment (unless its a BMW of course)

 

[Gilbert_374242131]

I dont think it helps to call enviromentalists idiots they are entitled to there point of view just as we 4x4 drivers are entitled to ours.I drive a 4x4 which I paid for from my hard earned income and as long as it is my income which is making the purchase I will decide what to buy.Id never for a minute tell anyone else what they should buy with there income.Im terms of being green or not there are thousands of factories throughout the world belching all sorts of impurities from there chimmneys that need to sorted out long before we start on 4x4s.So if you wish to fly your green flag look where it can best achieve real results and dont be conned by the governments anti 4x4 platform as it is only another way to increase tax revenue and has little to do with green policy.

 

[John_374224558]

I drive a Freelander 2, and agree with Gary about its comfort.The seating is superb.

What really annoys me about some of these do gooders is the 2CV's they drive about in, yes they only have tiny engines but you have drive them flat out to get them to go and I believe they are actually very polluting!

 

[Parksy]

Gilbert wrote

'I dont think it helps to call enviromentalists idiots they are entitled to there point of view just as we 4x4 drivers are entitled to ours'

I agree with your sentiments Gilbert but these environmentomuppets are the ones who have caused the road tax hikes on 'gas guzzling 4x4s.Their point of view seems to be the only one that matters.

I don't remember there being a candidate for the green party where I live during the last general election and I certainly wouldn't have voted in their favour if there had been.

It's odd then that these 'greens' have a disproportionate voice in present government policy.

 

[g_374369443]

Just been to the government website, thought I had missed something.

When did this new car tax law for 4x4 drivers come into effect?

Oh that's right there isn't one! they are taxing cars according to CO2!

So maybe we should apply the same logic as was applied in the first post i.e. "dividing caravanner's " by saying why are you yet again making the issue about 4x4 vehicles, when there are plenty of 2wd vehicles that also pay high car tax rates because they produce high levels of CO2!

And indeed some 4x4s clearly pay less car tax than some 2wd cars!

 

[g_374369443]

I drive a Freelander 2, and agree with Gary about its comfort.The seating is superb.

What really annoys me about some of these do gooders is the 2CV's they drive about in, yes they only have tiny engines but you have drive them flat out to get them to go and I believe they are actually very polluting!

believe what you like,still does not make it true,those things will do 40plus mpg all day everywhere,so indeed there are plenty of modern cars that will produce better lower co2, but then there are plenty that are far far worse, so your statement does not hold true.

 

[g_374369443]

Gilbert wrote

'I dont think it helps to call enviromentalists idiots they are entitled to there point of view just as we 4x4 drivers are entitled to ours'

I agree with your sentiments Gilbert but these environmentomuppets are the ones who have caused the road tax hikes on 'gas guzzling 4x4s.Their point of view seems to be the only one that matters.

I don't remember there being a candidate for the green party where I live during the last general election and I certainly wouldn't have voted in their favour if there had been.

It's odd then that these 'greens' have a disproportionate voice in present government policy.

Parky, come on do you really believe that?

Here in the UK we have had a one tire car tax system since year dot. Most other western countries have for years had different rates for different cars.

Was only a matter of time till one government or another decided to copy one of the systems abroad.

The only options were taxing on the CC or the BHP or CO2.

 

[Parksy]

I have to agree with you there g

The letter in the magazine was an attack on 4x4s though.

As you said earlier in your comment most western countries have different tax bands for different vehicles but do the motorists in these countries also pay the high levels of duty on fuel that we do in the uk?

Why are British drivers forced to pick up the tab for 'saving the planet?'

 

[g_374369443]

I wished we did pay less for all fuels,and indeed over the last decade we have made our way to near the top of the fuel pile in Europe.but then some Europeans would argue they pay more income tax than we do.

Although I am led to believe that indirectly when one takes account of things like fuel fags booze ect,its a more even field...so they say.

 

[Guest]

I agree that the term '4x4' has been hijacked for political ends. It is a convenient 'catch all' to allow politicians to look as if they are doing something, when we all know that whatever we do in the UK, it will be meaningless unless other countries begin to follow any form of moral leadership.

However, I also have to point out that the politicians who are doing this are the ones elected by a majority of voters (yes, I know only just) and I am sure that there are a number of 4x4 caravan owners amongst them.

The man who now thinks he is the saviour of the world's financial systems is the very one who introduced these taxes, but according to many in the Public and Press, he is now a hero. If he cons enough people into voting for them again, then all of us will suffer. The other lot may not be any better, but we now know what 11 years of Brown's economic 'magic' will produce.

 

[mark_374368910]

Firstly if you ar happy to pay for the fuel, then it should be up to you to choose what you drive, but the trouble is 4x4s became "fashionable" so every burk in the richer areas "had" to have one, spoiling it for everyone else and making them easy tax targets.

But the trouble with this is, that these government ministers and civil servents in London, only look at that aspect of it. If they lived in rural Wales like me - 20 miles from dual carriageway 45 miles from motorway - they would realise for many people 4x4s are almost an essential method of transport and certainly many people have real use for them.

The other issue is that carte blanche taxing vehicles willy nilly on CO2, REALLY hits small businesses like mine that use mid/large size vans which are absolutely essential for work.

woody

 

[ANTHONYB1]

Firstly if you ar happy to pay for the fuel, then it should be up to you to choose what you drive, but the trouble is 4x4s became "fashionable" so every burk in the richer areas "had" to have one, spoiling it for everyone else and making them easy tax targets.

But the trouble with this is, that these government ministers and civil servents in London, only look at that aspect of it. If they lived in rural Wales like me - 20 miles from dual carriageway 45 miles from motorway - they would realise for many people 4x4s are almost an essential method of transport and certainly many people have real use for them.

The other issue is that carte blanche taxing vehicles willy nilly on CO2, REALLY hits small businesses like mine that use mid/large size vans which are absolutely essential for work.

woody

I!ve always wondered how this looney mob,the greens get around the the country,to their vip conferences etc, do they cycle or walk.I love my 2.5 Vauxhall Omega. Anthony

 

[suzanne404]

Car Tax,Speed cameras,so called saftey camera vans,parking tickets the list is endless, are all nothing but money earners for the government.A road close to my home last week changed from national speed limit to 40mph and guess what has been parked down their in different places all week "saftey camera van" i rest my case.

 

[RogerP]

I'm happy to own a 4x4 and pay for the priviledge.

People can say what they like , my Freelander 2 diesel Auto produces only fractionally more co2 that my wifes Focus 1.6 petrol Auto. Yet no ones screaming at her for being a tree killer.

There are people who jump on a band wagon because its flavour of the month.

Its not that long ago people were wanting motorbikes banned from the roads just because they became 'fashionable' in the 1990s. Insurance prices rocketted over night (mine went from

 

[miley72]

Dave wrote

"People just jump on 4wds coz they look big, those who drive big engined other cars and MPVs use the same amount of fuel and in some cases push out more CO2 and other nasties, they just don't don't attract the same resentment (unless its a BMW of course)"

I can't agree with that.

I resent Audi's and Mercedes as well.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

let me start by declaring I have never owned or wanted to own a 4x4 as for me owning one would be completly un-nessesary as I don't go offroad (exept to get onto a pitch), that is not to say no one should have one farmers and counrty folk would argue that one is essential and I have some sympathy for that point of view as is the need for one when towing a horse box ect.

however I have no sympathy for the dude who runs one because it would be un cool to turn up at the golf club in toyota yaris or for the wife's car that just takes the kids on the school run when a honda hybred would do the job just as well.

my own view is if you want a 4x4 or a large saloon fine pay through the nose for it,the dearer the better its your privilege, but if you need one absolutly with no other alternative, offer a discount in the tax.

the knock on effect to the caravan industry in the demise of the 4x4 would be that manufacturers would be forced to reintroduce smaller lightweight vans and reverse the trend to bigger heavier units then there would be more choice for average car owner who wanted to tow a van.

going round dealers recently I was dissapointed to find out that nearly all the new vans on sale were around the 5mtr mark and weighed in around 1300kg all far too big for a smallish car to tow.

colin