Alan
"Back to the original post, is Ultraseal going to be of any use if I have a blow out?"
It might just do.
The majority of "blowouts" occur because the tyre was run under inflated - and the most common cause of that is either a puncture or just incorrect inflation.
If you do have a puncture - then a tyre sealant should stop any serious loss of air before you stop for a break - then you won't experience a blowout - so that's a positive help.
If you just didn't bother to check the tyres before driving away - or check them when stopped (a hand on the sidewall should quickly tell you if the tyre is hot or normal) - then driving on a flat tyre will cause a blowout - usually resulting in a total loss of the tread band - and then it doesn't matter how the bead is attached because most of the tyre is missing anyway.
Robert
"Back to the original post, is Ultraseal going to be of any use if I have a blow out?"
It might just do.
The majority of "blowouts" occur because the tyre was run under inflated - and the most common cause of that is either a puncture or just incorrect inflation.
If you do have a puncture - then a tyre sealant should stop any serious loss of air before you stop for a break - then you won't experience a blowout - so that's a positive help.
If you just didn't bother to check the tyres before driving away - or check them when stopped (a hand on the sidewall should quickly tell you if the tyre is hot or normal) - then driving on a flat tyre will cause a blowout - usually resulting in a total loss of the tread band - and then it doesn't matter how the bead is attached because most of the tyre is missing anyway.
Robert
Civical, im assuming you have got your words mixed up regarding the ride quality, how on earth can something that has no contact with the road and weighs less than 2 kg's have any effect on the ride quality of a vehicle ? And lutz im surprised at you for rising to such a silly coment given the pretty informed responces you have posted in the past.
Run flat tyrs as is widely reported do have an inferior ride quality and a much reduced life but tyrons ? come on they are a light weight alloy strapped to the inner ring of the wheel with no contact on the road.
I agree im not completely informed regarding tyrons other than my own experiance and research but im allso not stupid enough to believe that they have NO effect on safety and do effect ride quality.
If you dont think they or any other device is any good then bye all means express your concern but please dont start to post silly coments like "If Tyron bands were really the best thing since sliced bread, then you can be sure that car manufacturers, if not the caravan makers, would jump on the opportunity to cash in on expected profits by offering them at least as a factory-fitted optional extra". simply becouse most manufactures do offer them via the dealer at point of sale, thats when i have been offered them when purchasing the last 3 vans even though i refused them untill experiance showed me that they where worth the money.
If you dont like the idea then good for you but don't put others off a positive safety related item simply becouse you cant be bothered to research the item or you fail to see the positive effect of the item.
And lets not confuse tyrons and ultraseal, they are 2 completely different items one stops the tyre comming off the rim in the event of a tyre deflation and enables control to be maintained (tyrons) the other simply allows the tyre to deflate more slowly after its first application but more often than not results in the tyre being a write off due to no repair being possible and still does not stop the tyre coming off the rim if it completely deflates.
Run flat tyrs as is widely reported do have an inferior ride quality and a much reduced life but tyrons ? come on they are a light weight alloy strapped to the inner ring of the wheel with no contact on the road.
I agree im not completely informed regarding tyrons other than my own experiance and research but im allso not stupid enough to believe that they have NO effect on safety and do effect ride quality.
If you dont think they or any other device is any good then bye all means express your concern but please dont start to post silly coments like "If Tyron bands were really the best thing since sliced bread, then you can be sure that car manufacturers, if not the caravan makers, would jump on the opportunity to cash in on expected profits by offering them at least as a factory-fitted optional extra". simply becouse most manufactures do offer them via the dealer at point of sale, thats when i have been offered them when purchasing the last 3 vans even though i refused them untill experiance showed me that they where worth the money.
If you dont like the idea then good for you but don't put others off a positive safety related item simply becouse you cant be bothered to research the item or you fail to see the positive effect of the item.
And lets not confuse tyrons and ultraseal, they are 2 completely different items one stops the tyre comming off the rim in the event of a tyre deflation and enables control to be maintained (tyrons) the other simply allows the tyre to deflate more slowly after its first application but more often than not results in the tyre being a write off due to no repair being possible and still does not stop the tyre coming off the rim if it completely deflates.
For some unknown reason most caravan Insurers offer a discount if tyron bands are fitted, If they do nothing in the event of a blowout why this saving? by the way I have had them fitted to my last 3 vans
Icemaker
Let me first state I have Tyron Bands on my caravan and if you read my earlier posts I wholeheartedly advocate the safety advantages of them for caravans. Through my research I decided to have them fitted to my caravan for the, in my opinion, clear safety advantages.
I am not sure why I am implied by your post as the person rubbishing tyron bands. I appologise for any misunderstanding if you missinterpreted any of my comments.
Re the ride quality, car manufacturers spend millions of pounds on cars reducing the 'unsprung weight' of cars (namely the wheels, hubs and lower suspension arms), to improved the ride and handling of their cars. You must agree that adding a couple of kilos to each wheel will affect this.
I have not got them fitted to my car for different reasons. The ride quality is bad enough in my car anyway. Also as I am driving the car, I feel I would be able to detect a deflating tyre more easily on the car than the caravan.
Let me first state I have Tyron Bands on my caravan and if you read my earlier posts I wholeheartedly advocate the safety advantages of them for caravans. Through my research I decided to have them fitted to my caravan for the, in my opinion, clear safety advantages.
I am not sure why I am implied by your post as the person rubbishing tyron bands. I appologise for any misunderstanding if you missinterpreted any of my comments.
Re the ride quality, car manufacturers spend millions of pounds on cars reducing the 'unsprung weight' of cars (namely the wheels, hubs and lower suspension arms), to improved the ride and handling of their cars. You must agree that adding a couple of kilos to each wheel will affect this.
I have not got them fitted to my car for different reasons. The ride quality is bad enough in my car anyway. Also as I am driving the car, I feel I would be able to detect a deflating tyre more easily on the car than the caravan.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Civical, you say that your research into the safety advantages of Tyron bands lead you having them fitted on your caravan. Obviously you then have the information I am looking for. I'd be interested in details of the source of this information. It definitely can't be Tyron's website.
Lutz
Sorry, most info was from their website (their website was pretty good then, not checked it recently) and caravan forums two years ago. A large multi brand caravan dealer in Surrey had at the eime a some pretty compelling props.
Agreed as you are an engineer, perhaps you would not count that as research.
Sorry, most info was from their website (their website was pretty good then, not checked it recently) and caravan forums two years ago. A large multi brand caravan dealer in Surrey had at the eime a some pretty compelling props.
Agreed as you are an engineer, perhaps you would not count that as research.
- Jun 20, 2005
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It seems to me the only evidence that Tyrons are any good is that promulgated by the manufacture themselves.
It is also apparent that Tyrons only work if the tyre has been correctly inflated in the first place plus has not exceeded its life span.
I always check my tyre pressures before a journey and check for damage.
Ok so my tyre develops a slow puncture. How soon will I know the tyre is deflating before a catastrophe occurs? I'm at 60mph , say, tyre goes bang and even in the time I take to react I anticipate the tyre will be shredded to bits. Even if it isn't will the retained tyre bead really be of any safety use? I don't know and I don't want to find out.
Maybe a better solution would be a tre pressure warning system as fitted to a lot of new cars. At least an early warning of reducing pressure will allow me to take some positive action.I don't think Tyrons will help with a sudden deflation if what you all say is correct.
For the moment I'm saving my money.
Cheers
Alan
It is also apparent that Tyrons only work if the tyre has been correctly inflated in the first place plus has not exceeded its life span.
I always check my tyre pressures before a journey and check for damage.
Ok so my tyre develops a slow puncture. How soon will I know the tyre is deflating before a catastrophe occurs? I'm at 60mph , say, tyre goes bang and even in the time I take to react I anticipate the tyre will be shredded to bits. Even if it isn't will the retained tyre bead really be of any safety use? I don't know and I don't want to find out.
Maybe a better solution would be a tre pressure warning system as fitted to a lot of new cars. At least an early warning of reducing pressure will allow me to take some positive action.I don't think Tyrons will help with a sudden deflation if what you all say is correct.
For the moment I'm saving my money.
Cheers
Alan
Bit of a history lesson here - many years ago wheel rims were flat apart from the well in the middle which is necessary to allow to tyre to be fitted. Accident investigators soon found that some tyres had deflated, allowing the bead into the well, in turn allowing the tyre to come off the rim with inevitable loss of control.
The safety ledge wheel rim has raised ledges between the bead seating area both sides and the central well - this reduces the risk of tyre coming off the wheel rim but isn't absolute as the safety ledge size still has to allow the tyre to be fitted.
The motor industry universally adopted safety ledge wheels many years ago as a good safety feature. The caravan industry didn't adopt safety ledge wheels, a perverse decision, but were eventually forced to by the lack of availability of non-safety ledge wheels.
With it's own internal safety campaigns as well as external pressure to improve safety, the European motor industry has a good record for introducing obligatory safety features. The caravan industry has a poor record, rejecting obligatory safety measures for gas, electric and chassis systems.
It's very significant that Tyron safety bands haven't been made obligatory for motor vehicles and aren't generally promoted on a voluntaty basis.
The use of other Tyron products to allow continued emergency running for police and other priority vehicles shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of Tyron safety bands for caravans.
The sidewall is by far the weakest part of any tyre, but the nature of it's function of continuously flexing. The fact that Tyron safety bands are no use at all when the sidewall fails, the likely result of any tyre failure, means that it's value must be very limited on a wheel with safety ledges as modern caravan now have.
What do I do? I replace the tyres every five years using a reputable brand and a load rating at least 10% higher than the caravan's MTPLM, ensuring that the tyres/wheels are balanced. Before EVERY tow, I inspect the tyres for visible damage and adjust the cold tyre pressure to the specified level. During our winter lay-up the tyres are removed from the caravan, stored in the dark and re-painted every spring to replenish the carbon in the sidewalls lost by exposure to UV light.
I'm a great believer in commercial pressure - if the companies that insure caravans had any evidence that Tyron safety bands are beneficial, they would either be a requirement or have a loading on the premium if not fitted.
On the original issue of Ultraseal, it's beneficial when a slow puncture occurs which is a different scenario to that promoted by Tyron.
The safety ledge wheel rim has raised ledges between the bead seating area both sides and the central well - this reduces the risk of tyre coming off the wheel rim but isn't absolute as the safety ledge size still has to allow the tyre to be fitted.
The motor industry universally adopted safety ledge wheels many years ago as a good safety feature. The caravan industry didn't adopt safety ledge wheels, a perverse decision, but were eventually forced to by the lack of availability of non-safety ledge wheels.
With it's own internal safety campaigns as well as external pressure to improve safety, the European motor industry has a good record for introducing obligatory safety features. The caravan industry has a poor record, rejecting obligatory safety measures for gas, electric and chassis systems.
It's very significant that Tyron safety bands haven't been made obligatory for motor vehicles and aren't generally promoted on a voluntaty basis.
The use of other Tyron products to allow continued emergency running for police and other priority vehicles shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of Tyron safety bands for caravans.
The sidewall is by far the weakest part of any tyre, but the nature of it's function of continuously flexing. The fact that Tyron safety bands are no use at all when the sidewall fails, the likely result of any tyre failure, means that it's value must be very limited on a wheel with safety ledges as modern caravan now have.
What do I do? I replace the tyres every five years using a reputable brand and a load rating at least 10% higher than the caravan's MTPLM, ensuring that the tyres/wheels are balanced. Before EVERY tow, I inspect the tyres for visible damage and adjust the cold tyre pressure to the specified level. During our winter lay-up the tyres are removed from the caravan, stored in the dark and re-painted every spring to replenish the carbon in the sidewalls lost by exposure to UV light.
I'm a great believer in commercial pressure - if the companies that insure caravans had any evidence that Tyron safety bands are beneficial, they would either be a requirement or have a loading on the premium if not fitted.
On the original issue of Ultraseal, it's beneficial when a slow puncture occurs which is a different scenario to that promoted by Tyron.
Lutz
Roger said they didn't want to adopt the ridged wheels, but effectively had it forced on them by the availability of the wheels.
It does appear that my research was not comprehensive enough.
What I am questioning is then, if caravan wheels now have the ridge, how can you still fit a tyron band?
Roger said they didn't want to adopt the ridged wheels, but effectively had it forced on them by the availability of the wheels.
It does appear that my research was not comprehensive enough.
What I am questioning is then, if caravan wheels now have the ridge, how can you still fit a tyron band?
Someone mentioned in this post somewhere that police vehicles are fitted with tyron bands
don't know where that information has come from but i've been driving police vehicles in the met for the last 9 years and had many a tyre changed and have never seen a tyron band fitted to any vehicle from a astra up to the merc sprinter
don't know where that information has come from but i've been driving police vehicles in the met for the last 9 years and had many a tyre changed and have never seen a tyron band fitted to any vehicle from a astra up to the merc sprinter
(quote) Civical
25 Sep 2008 01:16 PM Lutz
The ride is a killer with tyron bands (even worse than BMWs with run flats). Your kitchen cupboards in a caravan don't mide a poor ride as much as your passengers (un quote)
Civical, it was the post i have quoted above that gave me rise to believe you had changed your thinking on the tyron subject since as you have stated you advocated the benefits of tyrons in previous post's then basically gave them the thumbs down with the post above. obviousley any added weight is going to effect the vehicle in some way but 2 kilos between them is going to be completly un noticable, ive noticed no difference at all in the towing characteristics of my van.
As i stated in my post i assumed you had simply miss typed and i was not implying that you where the one giving totally negative responces, what i meant is we have some posters who are saying they cant see tyrons being any use since they have not seen any positive proof but on the same scale they have not seen any positive proof that tyrons are of no use, this all despite the tyron web site giving more than enough examples in my mind.
25 Sep 2008 01:16 PM Lutz
The ride is a killer with tyron bands (even worse than BMWs with run flats). Your kitchen cupboards in a caravan don't mide a poor ride as much as your passengers (un quote)
Civical, it was the post i have quoted above that gave me rise to believe you had changed your thinking on the tyron subject since as you have stated you advocated the benefits of tyrons in previous post's then basically gave them the thumbs down with the post above. obviousley any added weight is going to effect the vehicle in some way but 2 kilos between them is going to be completly un noticable, ive noticed no difference at all in the towing characteristics of my van.
As i stated in my post i assumed you had simply miss typed and i was not implying that you where the one giving totally negative responces, what i meant is we have some posters who are saying they cant see tyrons being any use since they have not seen any positive proof but on the same scale they have not seen any positive proof that tyrons are of no use, this all despite the tyron web site giving more than enough examples in my mind.
Caravan wheels aren't generally provided by Al-Ko, the manufacturers source them independently. The volumes aren't there to use their own specification so they use car wheels, which now have safety ledges.
I can see no reason why Tyron bands can't be fitted to wheels with safety ledges - the central well is the same.
Tyron's website claims "almost universal adoption of Tyron bands by UK police forces on a variety of vehicles" - if that statement is untrue then Trading Standards should take robust action.
I can see no reason why Tyron bands can't be fitted to wheels with safety ledges - the central well is the same.
Tyron's website claims "almost universal adoption of Tyron bands by UK police forces on a variety of vehicles" - if that statement is untrue then Trading Standards should take robust action.
Hi roger, We got a 5 % discount from caravanguard for having the tyrons fitted and when i was getting quotes most of the companies had a tick box for tyrons.
- Mar 14, 2005
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It is unlikely that the adverse effect on ride would be noticed when towing a caravan fitted with Tyron bands because the poorer ride performance would not be transmitted to the car. Flexing at the towball would effectively decouple harshness through to the car.
I'm afraid I cannot follow the logic that just because there is no proof that they are of no use they must be good. No proof has been produced that they are any better than without having them fitted, either. The examples on the Tyron website don't prove anything because they do not compare with a reference condition.
I'm afraid I cannot follow the logic that just because there is no proof that they are of no use they must be good. No proof has been produced that they are any better than without having them fitted, either. The examples on the Tyron website don't prove anything because they do not compare with a reference condition.
As i said earlier on this thread our sidewall blowout which did not destroy the tyre and it kept on the wheel, whether that was the tyron band working i am not sure , however it has been said that a person was hardly aware of their flat , mine was alarming, first few seconds was as if someone was pulling me backwards, then next was aware of rumbling.Pulling safely into hard shouder revealed tyre still on but alloy out of shape and rim u/s.Have no conclusions regarding Tyron bands but have seen a caravan tyre which when destroyed hit the wheel arch and caused lots of damage to the underside of the caravan.I would mention the tyre pressure was accurate and tyre was only 2 years old.
(quote) I'm afraid I cannot follow the logic that just because there is no proof that they are of no use they must be good. No proof has been produced that they are any better than without having them fitted (un quote).
That is not what i stated lutz, i was stating as can be read above that i can not understand how any body who has no experiance of an item and who openely admits to not having any research in to an item can condem that item no matter what it is.
I have experiance of tyrons and i have experiance of theire effect during a tyre deflation which is where i get my experiance of the product having a benefit to the stability of the caravan under duress conditions therefore i feel qualified enough to to give my opinion on the effectivness of tyrons.
On the other hand you have openly admitted to having never used them or researched them yet you seem to have nothing positive to say but plenty of negatives ! how can one have an opinion of a product that they have never used or researched ?.
Anyway i think people get the idea by now, they should make up theire own mind by doing theire own research, there is plenty of info available.
That is not what i stated lutz, i was stating as can be read above that i can not understand how any body who has no experiance of an item and who openely admits to not having any research in to an item can condem that item no matter what it is.
I have experiance of tyrons and i have experiance of theire effect during a tyre deflation which is where i get my experiance of the product having a benefit to the stability of the caravan under duress conditions therefore i feel qualified enough to to give my opinion on the effectivness of tyrons.
On the other hand you have openly admitted to having never used them or researched them yet you seem to have nothing positive to say but plenty of negatives ! how can one have an opinion of a product that they have never used or researched ?.
Anyway i think people get the idea by now, they should make up theire own mind by doing theire own research, there is plenty of info available.
Research? Evidence? There isn't actually much of either. Icemaker is clearly satisfied with the performance of Tyrons during a blowout but without experiencing a blowout without Tyrons can't give us a comparison.
Proper scientific and technical testing includes comparative tests with/without or before/after etc. Tyron don't present such evidence leading to the conclusion that they haven't done proper tests or that the tests show little difference.
Proper scientific and technical testing includes comparative tests with/without or before/after etc. Tyron don't present such evidence leading to the conclusion that they haven't done proper tests or that the tests show little difference.
A friend of mine has used this ultraseal in tyres on one of his HGVs,last time we spoke he,d taken the wheels off.due to a vibration which i felt through the frame,not the steering wheel.when the wheels was removed the "Ultra seal" could be felt moving about inside.ive seen a guy on midway truckstop,whitchurch selling this stuff,and doing a demo,with a motorcycle tyre blown up.he then sticks a bradall in it,about a 3mm hole and it seals up.but there,s no way it,ll seal a 10mm bolt going in a tyre.
But i think Icemakers got a fair point for
But i think Icemakers got a fair point for
I cannot comment on many of the technical comments on here nor do I have research evidence to support Tyron bands.
However, perhaps as importantly, what I do have is experience of puncture on a previous caravan with Tyron bands fitted. I was running at high speed to catch a ferry in Scotland, only when I stopped in the ferry queue was the fact that I had a puncture pointed out to me by a following vehicle. The tyre was so badly shredded that I had to call out my breakdown service - the protruding metal bands made it dangerous to handle without work gloves.
I had not even noticed the puncture so- YES in that situation Tyron bands had worked and prevented an accident for me and my, then, young family. So yes I have had Tyron bands fitted to all my caravans since then and to my towcars too. I have never had any problems with poor "ride"
I am a "belt and braces" person with ATC, shocks and Tyron bands fitted and a towcar with ESP and, when I get them fitted to the new car, Tyrons. Perhaps I am over cautious but I'd rather do all that I can to avoid an accident.
Tim
However, perhaps as importantly, what I do have is experience of puncture on a previous caravan with Tyron bands fitted. I was running at high speed to catch a ferry in Scotland, only when I stopped in the ferry queue was the fact that I had a puncture pointed out to me by a following vehicle. The tyre was so badly shredded that I had to call out my breakdown service - the protruding metal bands made it dangerous to handle without work gloves.
I had not even noticed the puncture so- YES in that situation Tyron bands had worked and prevented an accident for me and my, then, young family. So yes I have had Tyron bands fitted to all my caravans since then and to my towcars too. I have never had any problems with poor "ride"
I am a "belt and braces" person with ATC, shocks and Tyron bands fitted and a towcar with ESP and, when I get them fitted to the new car, Tyrons. Perhaps I am over cautious but I'd rather do all that I can to avoid an accident.
Tim
- Mar 14, 2005
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How can you say that Tyron bands prevented an accident? What makes you sure that you would have had an accident if they hadn't been fitted? I say this because of my experience with a blowout without Tyron bands and yet, despite similar damage to the tyre as in your case, the outfit remained fully under control.
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