ULEZ! A step too far🤔🤔🤔

[otherclive]

I love visits to London. We used to site the van at Crystal Palace and spend time visiting museums, the parks and attractions, and going to concerts, or theatre . One trip the Hyde Park concerts spanned two days...Status Quo, Beach Boys and Andrea Boccelli. How varied is that? Caught the late night buses back to the CMHC site. Even when at work if a visit to London was required I would catch a train much earlier than necessary and enjoyed the walk from Paddington across Hyde Park, James Park to Whitehall offices, lunch being a beer and nosh in one of Londons lovely pubs.

 

[Jaydug]

Part of the proposed ULEZ border will cross the other end of the road where I live, so having driven 400 yards or so, I will be within the ULEZ. That means to visit Sainsbury, Aldi or Tesco - all less than a mile from home, I'll be charged £12.50 for the privilege. The local hospital, B&Q and Wickes are all across the boundary.

But ULEZ isn't a done deal. Most of the Outer London Boroughs are opposing the Mayor's proposals. Surrey County Council has announced they will not cooperate in erecting signage and cameras. A petition against ULEZ has already collected nearly 200000 signatures.

I am not against city exclusion zones. They work in lots of cities both in this country and throughout the world. But so far emission zones are all about reducing traffic in what was once congested city centres. The area covered by the Paris exclusion zone is around 40 square miles. The London Congestion charge covers 10 square miles and the present ULEZ covers around 120 square miles. The new proposal wants to enlarge the zone to cover over 600 square miles - almost as big as some counties. Much of the area is green fields and commons with thousands of streets and roads which hardly see any through traffic. Some of the Greater London Boroughs house some of the poorest people in the Country, struggling to hold down poorly paid jobs. Many of them are driving cars that the government of ten years ago encouraged them to buy. And they live in streets that see very few passing cars.

The real truth of the matter is that Transport for London has a current debt of around 15 billion pounds. What better way to reduce the debt than to charge many of the residents £12.50 each day they want to get into their cars?

 

[Buckman]

I love visits to London. We used to site the van at Crystal Palace and spend time visiting museums, the parks and attractions, and going to concerts, or theatre . One trip the Hyde Park concerts spanned two days...Status Quo, Beach Boys and Andrea Boccelli. How varied is that? Caught the late night buses back to the CMHC site. Even when at work if a visit to London was required I would catch a train much earlier than necessary and enjoyed the walk from Paddington across Hyde Park, James Park to Whitehall offices, lunch being a beer and nosh in one of Londons lovely pubs.

We are of the opinion that generally all cities are the same and once you have been to one, they are all very similar. A very narrow minded view, but it serves us as we prefer the open spaces in the countryside.

 

[RogerL]

According to a number of sites Heathrow will be included. These were late 2022 articles about LHR being the world’s first ultra low emissions airport. It’s already in the LEZ

https://www.uk-airport-news.info/heathrow-airport-located-in-londons-low-emission-zone

I haven't been for years but my understanding is that the Heathrow access is directly off the M4 - the M4 within the M25 isn't part of the ULEZ extension AFAIK.

 

[otherclive]

I haven't been for years but my understanding is that the Heathrow access is directly off the M4 - the M4 within the M25 isn't part of the ULEZ extension AFAIK.

If you look at the extended ULEZ checker the all of Heathrow’s terminals are currently shown as within the extended ULEZ coming into force in August 2023. Irrespective of what road is or isn’t in the ULEZ extension at present LHR is designated to be within it. You can access Heathrow from directions other than M4. But as Jaydug has said there’s a lot of local council resistance so changes may ensue.

ULEZ

www.gmblondon.org.uk

 

[Buckman]

I haven't been for years but my understanding is that the Heathrow access is directly off the M4 - the M4 within the M25 isn't part of the ULEZ extension AFAIK.

I don't think Terminal 1 is off the M4 as you need to use the M25 to access T1?

 

[otherclive]

I don't think Terminal 1 is off the M4 as you need to use the M25 to access T1?

Our last trip to Heathrow in Feb 2019 the taxi used M3 and M25 to get to T5, but M25/M4 to return home. Wife’s taxi in November 2019 was M3/M25 both ways.

 

[Buckman]

Our last trip to Heathrow in Feb 2019 the taxi used M3 and M25 to get to T5, but M25/M4 to return home. Wife’s taxi in November 2019 was M3/M25 both ways.

Apologies I was thinking of T5 where BA operate from. Travelling down M40 onto M25 then left off M25 towards T5. Last time we went the car was parked up for 3-4 weeks in one of the long stay car parks, but cannot remember direction we took to the long stay car park to fly from T5? Lucky for us when the kids came from SA they flew into Birmingham which made life easier all round.

 

[Johnb]

We are of the opinion that generally all cities are the same and once you have been to one, they are all very similar. A very narrow minded view, but it serves us as we prefer the open spaces in the countryside.

What a quaint idea. Must admit I've never thought of it like that!

I would agree with your enjoyment of open countryside but surely you're not suggesting you are "narrow minded"?

 

[Tobes]

Apologies I was thinking of T5 where BA operate from. Travelling down M40 onto M25 then left off M25 towards T5. Last time we went the car was parked up for 3-4 weeks in one of the long stay car parks, but cannot remember direction we took to the long stay car park to fly from T5? Lucky for us when the kids came from SA they flew into Birmingham which made life easier all round.

All the terminals are inside the zone. T5 included. As is the M4 Heathrow Spur.

 

[Buckman]

All the terminals are inside the zone. T5 included. As is the M4 Heathrow Spur.

Inside the ULEZ or LEZ area? Our 2005 Jeep never even had a DPF when we last went to Heathrow in 2018.

 

[otherclive]

Inside the ULEZ or LEZ area? Our 2005 Jeep never even had a DPF when we last went to Heathrow in 2018.

Inside the ULEZ or LEZ area? Our 2005 Jeep never even had a DPF when we last went to Heathrow in 2018.

LHR is within the present LEZ which targets the most polluting vehicles buses, trucks, taxis etc, and iaw present plans it will be in the new ULEZ from August 2023. That will then impact private cars more noticeabley. Hence the reason Dustys friend who works as a pilot for BA is changing his 64 reg Insignia diesel.

 

[Jcloughie]

I love visits to London. We used to site the van at Crystal Palace and spend time visiting museums, the parks and attractions, and going to concerts, or theatre . One trip the Hyde Park concerts spanned two days...Status Quo, Beach Boys and Andrea Boccelli. How varied is that? Caught the late night buses back to the CMHC site. Even when at work if a visit to London was required I would catch a train much earlier than necessary and enjoyed the walk from Paddington across Hyde Park, James Park to Whitehall offices, lunch being a beer and nosh in one of Londons lovely pubs.

I also love to visit London. (I also love to come back home. Don’t want too much of a good thing). But since my ability to walk any distance, has put the kibosh on my wishes to do the museums, etc.

An Australian relative visited some years ago. On leaving I gave him instructions on how to get his hire car to Gatwick. But he somehow missed the M4/M25 right turn! He phoned me to ask if he should be seeing the house of commons!

I told him he was in the LEZ. He said he didn't care as he would be on a plane soon. As I knew that his hire car deposit would be charged plus excess, I phoned up and paid it for him. Quite an easy process.

John

 

[woodsieboy]

Our policy is to avoid any city or town with a congestion charge, that way we are not contributing to the pollution, a side effect is that we are unable to spend any money supporting the businesses inside the zone.So Bath is out, Bristol is out, Birmingham is out and London is out, but plenty of out of town businesses to support, on the outskirts.

 

[otherclive]

Our policy is to avoid any city or town with a congestion charge, that way we are not contributing to the pollution, a side effect is that we are unable to spend any money supporting the businesses inside the zone.So Bath is out, Bristol is out, Birmingham is out and London is out, but plenty of out of town businesses to support, on the outskirts.

All three U.K. towns mentioned in your post have accessible Park and Ride options. If we had adopted such an approach as yours we would have missed out on delightful visits to Dresden, Leipzig and Trier. Where with or without emission zones we would have opted for a Park and Ride or a site convenient for public transport. No fun wherever you are needlessly driving through towns.

 

[Jaydug]

I haven't been for years but my understanding is that the Heathrow access is directly off the M4 - the M4 within the M25 isn't part of the ULEZ extension AFAIK.

That's right! The section of the M4 running alongside Heathrow isn't within the proposed ULEZ, but as soon as you leave the motorway at any junction, you'll be liable for a penalty. Should you want to avoid the toll, all you can do is turn around and retrace your miles. See the map.



I live close to the second arrow and there is a similar situation to the M4. The road leaves Epsom, and after driving for a couple of miles through the countryside, one arrives at a junction. Although the area is sparsely populated, turn left, turn right or go straight on, and you will enter the proposed ULEZ.



From the traffic lights, should you want to join the M25, a mile away, turn left.
Should you want to visit Chessington Zoo & World of Adventure, turn right.
Should you want the A3 to Portsmouth, go straight on. But which ever way you go, it will cost you £12.50.

 

[woodsieboy]

Hi Other Clive
I accept your comment ref park and ride services,we choose to exercise our right to shop and support businesses out side the zones, because we object to the imposition of motoring taxes, which is what we consider the charges to be, they are dressed up as being for environmental reasons when they are actually a tax on drivers, and mean that if you can afford to pay, your pollution is acceptable,I can find nothing to suggest that the payments made do anything to alleviate the pollution produced. I feel sorry for anybody running a business inside the proposed ULEZ for London, and even more sorry for anybody with a business that needs to deliver into the proposed ULEZ. On a similar vein we took a decision to stop delivering to Stroud when the local council insisted that all deliveries had to be made before 9am,so we lost customers, but how could we deliver before 9am when customers didn't open until 9am. It should be possible to develop a strategy that encourages people to make the choice to use cleaner methods of transport,but it seems to me that the current strategy is based on punishing motorists, by LEZ,restricted parking, high fuel taxes,low traffic zones and restrictive speed limits. It is no coincidence that town centres are struggling, while out of town centres with free parking are thriving, Trowbridge being a prime example.

 

[otherclive]

Hi Other Clive
I accept your comment ref park and ride services,we choose to exercise our right to shop and support businesses out side the zones, because we object to the imposition of motoring taxes, which is what we consider the charges to be, they are dressed up as being for environmental reasons when they are actually a tax on drivers, and mean that if you can afford to pay, your pollution is acceptable,I can find nothing to suggest that the payments made do anything to alleviate the pollution produced. I feel sorry for anybody running a business inside the proposed ULEZ for London, and even more sorry for anybody with a business that needs to deliver into the proposed ULEZ. On a similar vein we took a decision to stop delivering to Stroud when the local council insisted that all deliveries had to be made before 9am,so we lost customers, but how could we deliver before 9am when customers didn't open until 9am. It should be possible to develop a strategy that encourages people to make the choice to use cleaner methods of transport,but it seems to me that the current strategy is based on punishing motorists, by LEZ,restricted parking, high fuel taxes,low traffic zones and restrictive speed limits. It is no coincidence that town centres are struggling, while out of town centres with free parking are thriving, Trowbridge being a prime example.

Trowbridge has been in decline for years and has no LEZ, and has cheap parking in The Shires, and free parking targeted at shoppers in two other car parks, plus three hours at Tesco and Sainsburys. You can’t blame emissions controls being the problems in that town.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Other Clive
I accept your comment ref park and ride services,we choose to exercise our right to shop and support businesses out side the zones, because we object to the imposition of motoring taxes, which is what we consider the charges to be, they are dressed up as being for environmental reasons when they are actually a tax on drivers, and mean that if you can afford to pay, your pollution is acceptable,I can find nothing to suggest that the payments made do anything to alleviate the pollution produced....

I agree in respect of what the income from the charge is used for. But with the charge being quite substantial, it will discourage some people from taking cars or other vehicles into the area. The reduction of traffic reduces emissions.

The number of comments so far in this thread indicates that it makes people consider if they want to travel through any of these zones.

It's how inconsistent the schemes are which I find disturbing. In some if your registered disabled, you may be exempt, but how that exemption is applied, and how you have to interact with the scheme to register the exemption.

ULEZ, LEZ and Congestion charge zones was one of the factors that drove my change of car, because my especially my wife has complex medical needs which requires many medical appointments in a number of different hospitals and clinics which often necessitate traveling into or through these zones.

Unfortunately, these zones are only going to increase in number and size, as they are a way for localised authorities to produce a ready income. I wonder what other schemes they will come up with to extract money from us?

 

[Dustydog]

LHR is within the present LEZ which targets the most polluting vehicles buses, trucks, taxis etc, and iaw present plans it will be in the new ULEZ from August 2023. That will then impact private cars more noticeabley. Hence the reason Dustys friend who works as a pilot for BA is changing his 64 reg Insignia diesel.

My pilot friend is very clear he and his colleagues are going to be hit hard if they continue using cars less than Euro 6 or an EV.It is noteworthy quite a few Councils are refusing to support the extending ULEZ. I suspect we may hear soon that Heathrow’s owners may be challenging the edict which result in loss of business .Eg Buckman’s family flying from SA to Birmingham.

 

[woodsieboy]

Hello Other Clive
I used Trowbridge as an example, of a town that has a declining centre with thriving out of town shopping,not caused by LEZ or traffic calmimg, to supprt my suggestion that there should be a strategy to encourage people back to town centres.I am pro personal choice and in our case the choice is to use our car, so we will visit towns and support the businesses therein, where we can use our car. One of the joys of using our caravan is the opportunity to visit various areas of the country and see first hand how different towns attempt to solve their traffic/pollution problems. Brighton was apalling the last time we went, Portsmouth was good, Oxford meant PAR was the most viable option using electric buses, Leamington Spa was good, but has the advantage that the streets in the centre are for the most part wider than normal.Going back to Trowbridge, The Shires has introduced a first hour free system this week,so it will be interesting to see whether that helps,as it stands Trowbridge still has a branch of the main banks which brings people in,although I am not sure what the latest is regarding Barclays. Judging by the number of people in Lloyds when I visit, people will visit the town centre, and hopefully they will spend money on other things while there, although the choice is currently limited. Sadly the county town is being overtaken by Melksham, Chippenham and Frome, all of which seem to have a better balance of town centre and out of town shopping offers.

 

[RogerL]

My pilot friend is very clear he and his colleagues are going to be hit hard if they continue using cars less than Euro 6 or an EV.It is noteworthy quite a few Councils are refusing to support the extending ULEZ. I suspect we may hear soon that Heathrow’s owners may be challenging the edict which result in loss of business .Eg Buckman’s family flying from SA to Birmingham.

I hope your friend realises that the Euro 6 requirement only applies to diesels - petrol cars from Euro 4 onwards are ok, ie from 2006 onwards

 

[Buckman]

Besides LEZ in smaller towns or cities, businesses in those town and city probably pay extortionate amounts in council tax and to stay in business their prices are higher than the out of town shop. This is in addition to probably high parking charges.

Business then gets less traffic and is eventually forced to either relocate out of town or close up resulting in more unemployment etc. The council ultimately loses out in the long run and to recoup that loss they increase the council tax for residents. A merry go around.

We are lucky that our local city has not LEZ or any intention of imposing one as it will be a waste of money. Same applies to our local towns.

 

[otherclive]

Hello Other Clive
I used Trowbridge as an example, of a town that has a declining centre with thriving out of town shopping,not caused by LEZ or traffic calmimg, to supprt my suggestion that there should be a strategy to encourage people back to town centres.I am pro personal choice and in our case the choice is to use our car, so we will visit towns and support the businesses therein, where we can use our car. One of the joys of using our caravan is the opportunity to visit various areas of the country and see first hand how different towns attempt to solve their traffic/pollution problems. Brighton was apalling the last time we went, Portsmouth was good, Oxford meant PAR was the most viable option using electric buses, Leamington Spa was good, but has the advantage that the streets in the centre are for the most part wider than normal.Going back to Trowbridge, The Shires has introduced a first hour free system this week,so it will be interesting to see whether that helps,as it stands Trowbridge still has a branch of the main banks which brings people in,although I am not sure what the latest is regarding Barclays. Judging by the number of people in Lloyds when I visit, people will visit the town centre, and hopefully they will spend money on other things while there, although the choice is currently limited. Sadly the county town is being overtaken by Melksham, Chippenham and Frome, all of which seem to have a better balance of town centre and out of town shopping offers.

Hello Woodsieboy
I now see your points. When we first moved to Bradford on Avon in 1976 you could virtually do all if your routine shopping in the town. The next time we moved there in 1986 it had become more restrictive in what shops were available. Now it’s virtually all eateries and art shops. Re Trowbridge, the Shires is convenient and reasonable parking charges as it aims to attract shoppers into the Center. We still use it. But how to reverse the decline in town centers is a very difficult problem. Some have managed it with a range of independent shops, but often at prices that many people have difficulty affording. IE Frome, Malmsbury, Marlborough etc. We regularly delve into Chippenham which apart from parking charges is a reasonable mix, but the major outlays are still at Sainsbury’s or the smaller supermarkets on the west side.

 

[woodsieboy]

Hello Other Clive
I don't want to sound all doom and gloom as there are parts of Trowbridge, that have evolved quite well, the conversion of Ushers Brewery to residential has been done well, with the people living there having easy access to the town centre,but it seems as though the heart was ripped out with the decline of industry, as well as the brewery, Bowyers went, and also Unigate, the main industry seems to be on Canal Road, the knock on being the decrease in foot fall in the town centre, with the exception of Sainsburys none of the supermarkets are near to the centre. The cinema area is attractive and the shops there appear to be doing well, but again thay are not town centre,they are also easy to access by car. Trowbridge is not unique in this respect, Gloucester city centre is no longer attractive with the demise of Debenhams, although that is being converted to University use, so will eventually encourage more footfall in the city centre,while down the road Cheltenham appears to be thriving. Perhaps the problems are part of a bigger picture involving our life styles, including energy use,taxation, employment etc. I am of an age where I now realise I have been consistently let down and lied to by succesive goverments of whatever colour,and although I try to adopt a positive attitude, I fear for the future for my grandchildren,in the meantime we are able to continue caravanning, and are lucky to enjoy reasonbly good health courtesy of a good local health centre and NHS that has always been there when we have had to use it.For all I know there could be new clean energy scources being developed and our grandchildren could thrive and look back on electric cars as quaint things from the 'old days'