Up or down jockey wheel. Again!

[CustardAvenger]

Jockey Wheel down.

Its attached to the chassis whereas my front steadies are not. Plus my old caravan did not have front steadies!

However, to make the E&P system work, the nose has to be low, to allow the hydraulic steadies to level front to back; in the process of doing so, the Jockey Wheel becomes airborne. What E&P do not say is if you need to lower it afterwards. They do say the following:

The warranty of the caravan manufacturer is not affected by the fitting of the Level C system. Caravan manufacturers fit corner steadies to their vans in line with guidance and approval from AL-KO, who supply the corner steadies. AL-KO have tested the E&P system and given their approval for our corner steady.

The AL-KO report determined that the Level C system actually prevents too much force being applied through the corner steadies, when compared to a standard corner steady, thereby helping to protect the floor of the caravan.

Furthermore, for their Compact System for caravans, which only levels Side-to-Side (no auto steadies, the say the following:

The Compact caravan leveller uses just 2 hydraulic axle jacks to automatically level your caravan side-to-side at the push of a button. You then level the caravan front to back with the jockey wheel and deploy your corner steadies as normal, for stability.

"...for stability."

 

[Gozza2]

The original post is from 16 years ago.Why are these posts still there,surely these old posts can be deleted after a period of time Say 6 months.

Don't know about anyone else, but I regularly search even the very old posts looking for advice on some problem or other.

Even if this was a sixteen year old thread (which it isn't, as Dave A1 says), the fact that we're discussing it now means we're interested in it now.

 

[Parksy]

Another caravan forum are having a heated debate on Up or Down. A Buccaneer owner uses his self levelling steadies so leaves his JW up. He says his chassis and floor are not reinforced. He also says JW down overloads the Al-ko chassis!
Always been a downer 👍. Anymore thoughts?

The original post is from 16 years ago.Why are these posts still there,surely these old posts can be deleted after a period of time Say 6 months.

The original post on this thread, which I've quoted, was submitted last Wednesday in response to a debate on another caravan forum.
There may well be a separate topic from years ago which deals with the same subject in the forum archives, but a lot of subject matter crops up again and again over the years.
We don't delete old forum material, it's part of the forum archive.

 

[JezzerB]

When we had wind down steadies we always had the jockey wheel down-as others have said for fore and aft levelling BUT also as an extra point of contact with the ground as the caravan had lightweight steadies so wasn't rock solid.

Now we have the EP system the nose has to be lower than level for the auto levelliing to commence-if the nose is high it won't-safety feature to stop people leaving it on the tow bar apparently!

If we dropped the jockey wheel after levelling when we came to connect to the car we might not have enough movement of the wheel height wise to get it back down on to the car-so we leave it where it came off so we're right to go! If you know what I mean-the steadies on this system are heavy duty and we have never had such a stable caravan. If the ground is so uneven as to require the steadies to be down that far that it would look like it being on stilts you'd need pads or blocks under the steadies and maybe go in to manual levelling mode. Auto has its limits though we've not been anywhere yet that has reached or exceeded them.

But ultimately-each to their own-am assuming no harm in either route.

 

[RogerL]

The original post is from 16 years ago.Why are these posts still there,surely these old posts can be deleted after a period of time Say 6 months.

There's no time limit on good information, or good debate - to delete the trash moderators would need to act as censors, a thankless task, on top of their existing tasks.

 

[GeorgeandAde]

I always leave the jockey wheel down.
Just think that with 4 of us sat in the front,I feel it takes a little strain(if any)off the front steadies

 

[Beachball]

Another for the jockey wheel down my caravan has not got any auto levelling

 

[JTQ]

I leave the JW down, SA caravan, precisely because throughout normal setting up that is where it is planted, and I can't see any logic based reasoning, not to leave it down.

It might on a very sloping pitch need resetting once it runs out of "lift", but it is back down again once reset, as the JW rather than the steadies is what I use to lift the van's nose.

If there is an ant infestation, I have been known to lift it to remove one route, without needing to bother planting that in a dish of water. I did this with no fear of causing structural issues.

 

[Darren.H]

I've often wondered about this, just how strong is a caravan floor?
But (first) the main weight is born by the axle the corner steady's do just that.
But (second) the surface area that the corner steady has upon the caravan floor is very small.
But (third) even if you argue the jockey wheel takes the load of the caravan in use, arnt most beds rearward of the caravan axle so the jockey has zero effect at sleepy time
But, no I give up.
😁

 

[RogerL]

arnt most beds rearward of the caravan axle so the jockey has zero effect at sleepy time

Whilst fixed bed layouts are popular, there are many other layouts with occupants sleeping at the front - and lounge areas are often at the front where many caravanners spend their time.

 

[JTQ]

I've often wondered about this, just how strong is a caravan floor?
But (first) the main weight is born by the axle the corner steady's do just that.
But (second) the surface area that the corner steady has upon the caravan floor is very small.
But (third) even if you argue the jockey wheel takes the load of the caravan in use, arnt most beds rearward of the caravan axle so the jockey has zero effect at sleepy time
But, no I give up.
😁

Our rear steadies are, as Dustydog's post 18 picture, attached directly to the chassis rails, and themselves are each designed with a wide "T" spreader.

The front again are as that illustration, each on an outrider beam from the chassis "A" beams, and similarly feature the "T" spreader design.

 

[Raywood]

The original post comes up as last Wednesday on my screen. I have noticed the computer putting random old dates in sometimes and it makes me wonder if there is a problem which corrects itself, or some of us get different ones to the others.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I can't believe this thread is continuing!!

Fact. caravans have been fitted with corner steadies for decades. If they had been fundamentally flawed I think we would have known about it by now. Yes there have been some cases where damage has arisen, but usually either down to over energetic use of the steady to lift a caravan, or there has been some rot to weaken the structure.

99.9% of caravans have survived the the multiple ways caravanners have used them.

Ipso Facto the corner steadies are substantially stronger than you might think, and the basic caravan structure is also capable of handling them.

There is no golden rule about JW up or down, so carry on....

 

[Darren.H]

Our rear steadies are, as Dustydog's post 18 picture, attached directly to the chassis rails, and themselves are each designed with a wide "T" spreader.

The front again are as that illustration, each on an outrider beam from the chassis "A" beams, and similarly feature the "T" spreader design.

Yes the steadies when deployed form a triangle, a strong architectural shape, none the less I would suggest the weight of the caravan is transfered to the ground via the contact from the floor of the caravan thus this transfer being amplified if the jockey wheel is lifted, therefore the load baring point for ?kg is a very small surface area.

 

[JTQ]

Yes the steadies when deployed form a triangle, a strong architectural shape, none the less I would suggest the weight of the caravan is transfered to the ground via the contact from the floor of the caravan thus this transfer being amplified if the jockey wheel is lifted, therefore the load baring point for ?kg is a very small surface area.

The only route of everything about the caravan and its contents, other than the chassis etc , has to come via the floor. It is very little, but the floor that is connected to the chassis and steadies' spreaders. On some vans, the LPG bottles are carried on a sub floor of their own.

However, the steadies along with a deployed JW only have to carry the "tipping" components of the caravan's weight. Unless we are stupid enough to relieve some real part of the load carrying of the axle, by overly jacking up on the steadies; I have seen that done surprisingly often!

Of that load carried by each steady, some part has to be distributed weight into the chassis, not all is directly from the floor into the steady's spreader.

Clearly, if you leave the JW deployed, more of the front tip resisting loading is routed via distributed loading from the floor to chassis.

You just have to hope the floor and any insert structure, is fit for purpose. Never had any hints ours are not, for how we use the steadies and JW.

 

[Jcloughie]

I can't believe this thread is continuing!!

Fact. caravans have been fitted with corner steadies for decades. If they had been fundamentally flawed I think we would have known about it by now. Yes there have been some cases where damage has arisen, but usually either down to over energetic use of the steady to lift a caravan, or there has been some rot to weaken the structure.

99.9% of caravans have survived the the multiple ways caravanners have used them.

Ipso Facto the corner steadies are substantially stronger than you might think, and the basic caravan structure is also capable of handling them.

There is no golden rule about JW up or down, so carry on....

I think it is good that threads such as this continue. Others are new to caravanning and it is information new and useful to them. Others, though I feel sure have many fantastic qualities, are not practically minded so the threads might provide good info.

I agree that steadies do not have a great failure rate. But they are regularly misused.

I recall in the 1980‘s we had an old van which I kept across the drive. Levels were such that I used to get the lower wheel clear of the ground just on the steadies, because I did not know any different. We had a family party once and it accommodated 5 girls aged around 17. The neighbours still talk about that.

In 2015 I had a wheel detachment in France. The recovery idiot, (best term for him). Used the steadies to put the spare on. On return to the UK all steadies were renewed.

John

 

[Hutch]

I think it is good that threads such as this continue. Others are new to caravanning and it is information new and useful to them. Others, though I feel sure have many fantastic qualities, are not practically minded so the threads might provide good info.

I agree that steadies do not have a great failure rate. But they are regularly misused.

I recall in the 1980‘s we had an old van which I kept across the drive. Levels were such that I used to get the lower wheel clear of the ground just on the steadies, because I did not know any different. We had a family party once and it accommodated 5 girls aged around 17. The neighbours still talk about that.

In 2015 I had a wheel detachment in France. The recovery idiot, (best term for him). Used the steadies to put the spare on. On return to the UK all steadies were renewed.

John

Alko S

I think it is good that threads such as this continue. Others are new to caravanning and it is information new and useful to them. Others, though I feel sure have many fantastic qualities, are not practically minded so the threads might provide good info.

I agree that steadies do not have a great failure rate. But they are regularly misused.

I recall in the 1980‘s we had an old van which I kept across the drive. Levels were such that I used to get the lower wheel clear of the ground just on the steadies, because I did not know any different. We had a family party once and it accommodated 5 girls aged around 17. The neighbours still talk about that.

In 2015 I had a wheel detachment in France. The recovery idiot, (best term for him). Used the steadies to put the spare on. On return to the UK all steadies were renewed.

John

Why, replace the steadies, the Stronger ones are rated at 1800 kg earlier ones 1200 kg. That a lot remember they are not just for Caravans but also trailers. It it the chassise that takes the weight.

 

[RogerL]

Alko S

Why, replace the steadies, the Stronger ones are rated at 1800 kg earlier ones 1200 kg. That a lot remember they are not just for Caravans but also trailers. It it the chassise that takes the weight.

Some caravans have front steadies which AREN'T connected to the chassis, just bolted to the underside of the floor - these make it very easy to distort the caravan body by over-tightening the steadies.

 

[Jcloughie]

Alko S

Why, replace the steadies, the Stronger ones are rated at 1800 kg earlier ones 1200 kg. That a lot remember they are not just for Caravans but also trailers. It it the chassise that takes the weight.

When the wheel came off the mover took most of the damage. The French breakdown moved the van twice, two different companies, both useless and caused more damage, including the jockey wheel weld breaking by bouncing up and down on the back of the truck. The French wanted to put a new wheel and hub on. They tried but the Alko European version is machined differently to ours.

We had had enough of this after two weeks of stress, so insisted on repatriation. Chipping Sodbury had a different assessment. Instead of new hub and wheel, they put a new axle, steadies, hitch and mover.

I have no idea what was wrong with the steadies or the hitch, belts and braces I guess

A week after they had finished, I saw a small split above the door, the insurance assessor said they will easily fix that, fill and paint. Chipping Sudbury did not agree, the put a whole new side on.

The CMHC insurance assessor agreed throughout.

If the crack in the side had shown itself earlier I could have had new for old!

John

 

[Darren.H]

I'm probably not best describing my thoughts.

If we take the example of me and the wife sat in front of the caravan, corner each, with the jockey wheel down, the transfer of weight is axle, jockey wheel, and the bit I'm trying to put across the small surface area of the floor on top of the steady?
Lift the jockey wheel and the weight transfer on top of the steady will increase by ?kg.

I'm not disputing the load bearing strength of a corner steady or the whole caravan floor, just the contact point of the floor onto the top of the steady. That to me seems the weakest point, but as I posted earlier when in bed its that load point that takes the strain, so is there an argument to be had at all?
My question would be, what's the benefits of lifting the jockey wheel?

 

[Dustydog]

I can't believe this thread is continuing!!

Thanks Prof.
I started the thread deliberately. It is obvious our PCv magazine has not attracted as many new subscribers as reflected by the massive increase in caravan ownership. My take is it important as an old dog to encourage discussion on all aspects of caravanning hoping the newcomers will find our threads interesting and buy the mag.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum 😉😉

 

[bertieboy1]

It was started by DD on Wednesday 12th May this year.

It was started by Dustydog June 20 ,2005

 

[DaveA1]

It was started by Dustydog June 20 ,2005

That's the date DD JOINED the Forum, not the date of the thread.

By your reckoning, I posted this on Oct 17 2010 !!!!!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

....I'm not disputing the load bearing strength of a corner steady or the whole caravan floor, just the contact point of the floor onto the top of the steady. That to me seems the weakest point, but as I posted earlier when in bed its that load point that takes the strain, so is there an argument to be had at all?

Don't forget the screw that activates the steady also transfers some of the load to the floor so the load is actually spread over a greater area.

My question would be, what's the benefits of lifting the jockey wheel?

None - but there is no disadvantage either so its a free choice.

 

[bertieboy1]

That's the date DD JOINED the Forum, not the date of the thread.

By your reckoning, I posted this on Oct 17 2010 !!!!!!

Oops !,need to get new specs !