Upgrading MTPLM on a 2011 Lunar Delta TI

[Surfer]

We have contacted Lunar and they have informed us that the 2011 Lunar Delta TI can be upgraded to 1995kgs for a cost of £50. All that we get for the £50 is a plate stating that the MTPLM has changed to 1995kgs.
At present the MTPLM is 1800kgs which gives us a payload of 225kg and we are finding it difficult to keep within that payload and normally exceed it by about 50kg until I remove the awning and poles. A payload of 420kg gives us a good margin, but very unlikely we would need to get anywhere near that figure as the last time on a weigh bridge with loads of unnecessary stuff in the caravan it came to 1900kg.
After removing quite a number of "just in case" articles we were able to reduce it to about 1800kg, but over time the clutter moves back in and you have to start the remove exercise again!

 

[otherclive]

Thats about what I paid for the Biley to be upgraded. There is a post elsewhere where an Eldis Xplore had a very useful FOC paper upgrade which then gave it a very family friendly payload. It would be nice if more companies input a margin in the design to enable upgardes as some current vans are pitifully low. I guess its to keep the 'headline' figure low for reduced kerbweight cars, but I am sure it puts some off buying.

 

[Surfer]

I asked the dealer for the upgrade to 1995kg and dealer has contacted me back stating that the person at Lunar got it all wrong and that the maximum MTPLM for the chassis is 1800kg! Back to square one and just have to be careful how we load as will be fitting a solar panel in the next month or two.

 

[Beachball]

Hi you must have a big towing car for that weight
i saw one towed with a Land Rover Freelander the other day and that was very low on the back the jockey wheel was nearly touching road .
Regards

 

[ProfJohnL]

What you describe, does not prove the weight of the caravan, You can produce vast nose weights in a caravan without the caravan being fully loaded, its just where you put the items inside. The low nose height either means the nose weight was very large, or the cars suspension may have been faulty.

 

[xtrailman]

I asked the dealer for the upgrade to 1995kg and dealer has contacted me back stating that the person at Lunar got it all wrong and that the maximum MTPLM for the chassis is 1800kg! Back to square one and just have to be careful how we load as will be fitting a solar panel in the next month or two.

Have a look at the plate on the axle, that will confirm the limit.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I asked the dealer for the upgrade to 1995kg and dealer has contacted me back stating that the person at Lunar got it all wrong and that the maximum MTPLM for the chassis is 1800kg! Back to square one and just have to be careful how we load as will be fitting a solar panel in the next month or two.

Have a look at the plate on the axle, that will confirm the limit.

No it doesn't. The MTPLM is set by the caravan manufacture and not by the chassis/axle manufacture. The caravan manufacture may have very good reasons to set the MTPLM below the axle limit.

 

[Surfer]

I asked the dealer for the upgrade to 1995kg and dealer has contacted me back stating that the person at Lunar got it all wrong and that the maximum MTPLM for the chassis is 1800kg! Back to square one and just have to be careful how we load as will be fitting a solar panel in the next month or two.

Have a look at the plate on the axle, that will confirm the limit.

No it doesn't. The MTPLM is set by the caravan manufacture and not by the chassis/axle manufacture. The caravan manufacture may have very good reasons to set the MTPLM below the axle limit.

When are you going to realise that the MTPLM plate has no standing in law and is only a guideline set by manufacturers. There is no requirement for a caravan to have MTPLM plate.

 

[Danddandy]

I have a Lunar Delta RS 2013. I had the MTPLM increased from 1735kgs to 1795kgs. This increase is limited by the capacity of the Alko hitch. If you upgrade the hitch and check your tyre load rating that should permit a loading to the capacity of the chassis/axle.

 

[Surfer]

I have a Lunar Delta RS 2013. I had the MTPLM increased from 1735kgs to 1795kgs. This increase is limited by the capacity of the Alko hitch. If you upgrade the hitch and check your tyre load rating that should permit a loading to the capacity of the chassis/axle.

In my 2011/2012 Lunar owner's manual states that nose weight should be minimum of 50kg and heavier for twin axles. No mention that it should not exceed 100kg which I think is a bad oversight on behalf of Lunar. I am assuming the maximum standard rating for the coupling on twin axle is 100kg.
However further in the manual if you have the AKS coupling it does state that it is capable of towing up to 3000kg with a maximum noseweight of 100kg.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I asked the dealer for the upgrade to 1995kg and dealer has contacted me back stating that the person at Lunar got it all wrong and that the maximum MTPLM for the chassis is 1800kg! Back to square one and just have to be careful how we load as will be fitting a solar panel in the next month or two.

Have a look at the plate on the axle, that will confirm the limit.

No it doesn't. The MTPLM is set by the caravan manufacture and not by the chassis/axle manufacture. The caravan manufacture may have very good reasons to set the MTPLM below the axle limit.

When are you going to realise that the MTPLM plate has no standing in law and is only a guideline set by manufacturers. There is no requirement for a caravan to have MTPLM plate.

Surfer.
We have been here so many times before. and Ii am not going to continually repeat the logic behind my answers.

But in respect of of Xtrailman's post, he is incorrect, as the MTPLM (whether its required or not by VOSA for weight violations) is set by the caravan manufacturer not the chassis manufacture.

 

[Surfer]

I asked the dealer for the upgrade to 1995kg and dealer has contacted me back stating that the person at Lunar got it all wrong and that the maximum MTPLM for the chassis is 1800kg! Back to square one and just have to be careful how we load as will be fitting a solar panel in the next month or two.

Have a look at the plate on the axle, that will confirm the limit.

No it doesn't. The MTPLM is set by the caravan manufacture and not by the chassis/axle manufacture. The caravan manufacture may have very good reasons to set the MTPLM below the axle limit.

When are you going to realise that the MTPLM plate has no standing in law and is only a guideline set by manufacturers. There is no requirement for a caravan to have MTPLM plate.

Surfer.
We have been here so many times before. and Ii am not going to continually repeat the logic behind my answers.

But in respect of of Xtrailman's post, he is incorrect, as the MTPLM (whether its required or not by VOSA for weight violations) is set by the caravan manufacturer not the chassis manufacture.

Then please refrain from offering incorrect advice regarding MTPLM plates etc or make it very clear in your replies.

 

[xtrailman]

I asked the dealer for the upgrade to 1995kg and dealer has contacted me back stating that the person at Lunar got it all wrong and that the maximum MTPLM for the chassis is 1800kg! Back to square one and just have to be careful how we load as will be fitting a solar panel in the next month or two.

Have a look at the plate on the axle, that will confirm the limit.

No it doesn't. The MTPLM is set by the caravan manufacture and not by the chassis/axle manufacture. The caravan manufacture may have very good reasons to set the MTPLM below the axle limit.

When are you going to realise that the MTPLM plate has no standing in law and is only a guideline set by manufacturers. There is no requirement for a caravan to have MTPLM plate.

Surfer.
We have been here so many times before. and Ii am not going to continually repeat the logic behind my answers.

But in respect of of Xtrailman's post, he is incorrect, as the MTPLM (whether its required or not by VOSA for weight violations) is set by the caravan manufacturer not the chassis manufacture.

My post is actually correct when applied to single axle Bailey caravans.
The Unicorn v1 has a 1600kg axle which is the most the MTPLM can be upgraded to.
While the Unicorn v2 has a 1500kg axle on the single axle versions, which again is the most the MTPLM can be upgraded to.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Surfer,
Specifically what do you believe is incorrect about the advice I have given? I believe the advice I have offered is clear sensible and does take readers into uncertain areas. The question of whether MPTLM is or is not required has not been definitively cleared up. So it is sensible to err on the side of displaying it.

Do not forget that caravan manufacturers have to comply with more than just the road regulations, and the display of MTPLM may be a legal requirement under some of these other regulations.

I am not going to make any great effort to search for the answers. but ask yourself, why do manufactures fit the information if its not required?

 

[Damian]

The following is taken from the AA website:
"The standard MTPLM figure for caravans given by manufacturers is calculated according to the British and European standard BS EN 1645. It’s technically known as the MTPLM (Lower Limit) and in some cases this can be increased to the MTPLM (Upper Limit). This Upper Limit is based on the physical limits of the caravan itself, such as its chassis and axle limits. If you have a suitable towcar and your driving licence allows it, you can ask your caravan dealer to ‘re-plate’ the unit to the higher MTPLM with the resulting increase being the amount of luggage and other extras you can carry. It’s important to do this because if you are challenged by the police or caravan insurance company and questioned about the legality of your outfit, it’s the figures given on the plates and accompanying documentation that will be used to validate your statements."

That statement is quite enough for me, and I suggest most others, that the weight plate on a van is required despite what a minority of posters may "think"

 

[Surfer]

The following is taken from the AA website:
That statement is quite enough for me, and I suggest most others, that the weight plate on a van is required despite what a minority of posters may "think"

I am surprised that you as a moderator and a technician have made the above statement without verifying it and relied on the interpretation of a third party. Now if the above had been stated by VOSA or was written into the regulations, then I would accept I am wrong. You cannot be prosecuted for not having a MTPLM plate on a caravan as the law refers to mandatory statutory plates which the MTPLM is not and secondly the law requires the plate to be fixed to the vehicle. I doubt if glue can be regarded as making the plate fixed.
I am not disputing it is good practice to have a MTPLM plate fitted as we have on our caravan. I am just pointing out that the plate is not mandatory and carries no weight in law.

 

[Gafferbill]

. I am just pointing out that the plate is not mandatory and carries no weight in law.

.......so if the plate fell off your caravan would you replace it ?

 

[Surfer]

. I am just pointing out that the plate is not mandatory and carries no weight in law.

.......so if the plate fell off your caravan would you replace it ?

There is no necessity to replace it so probably would not bother unless I was selling the caravan.

 

[Dustydog]

Surfer
I'm surprised at Lunar ' s u turn.
Bailey offer an upgrade on my Wyoming but for £60.
Both Your Lunar and my Wyoming ride on almost identical Al - ok chassis and twin axles. One assumes the floors are pretty similar so well able to handle a heavier MTPLM.
Have you tried contacting Lunar direct and tell them the opposition can do the increase?

 

[Surfer]

Surfer
I'm surprised at Lunar ' s u turn.
Bailey offer an upgrade on my Wyoming but for £60.
Both Your Lunar and my Wyoming ride on almost identical Al - ok chassis and twin axles. One assumes the floors are pretty similar so well able to handle a heavier MTPLM.
Have you tried contacting Lunar direct and tell them the opposition can do the increase?

Hi,
Think there may be a bit of a misunderstanding here. They were unable to upgrade to the figure of 1995kg they initially gave me, but were able to upgrade from 1735kg to 1800kg. There was no charge for this upgrade which was done when we bought the caravan.

 

[Damian]

Quote " I am surprised that you as a moderator and a technician have made the above statement without verifying it and relied on the interpretation of a third party."
I am not even going to discuss the minute details of Law with someone who is themselves not a Lawyer, and seems to take some kind of point scoring satisfaction from trying to prove for some reason that what you say is "IT"

I take all my decisions based on best practice and accepted "norm", and as all the caravan makers fix a weight plate to their vans, not because it looks nice, or adds several pounds to the retail price, but because they have to, I take their view that it DOES matter.
You say that you don't think glue would be regarded as making a plate fixed, but in fact it is an accepted way , according to VOSA.

 

[Surfer]

No one is after scoring points, just setting the record straight. You are happy to quote from VOSA regarding the fixing of plates yet seem reluctant to quote from them regarding the MTPLM plate? You are correct however regarding the law as there is no law governing MTPLM plates fixed to caravans.

 

[Damian]

A caravan is simply a trailer, and VOSA say that all trailers must have a plate giving the max load affixed to it
Even my garden trailer has one !!!!!!

 

[Parksy]

No one is after scoring points, just setting the record straight. You are happy to quote from VOSA regarding the fixing of plates yet seem reluctant to quote from them regarding the MTPLM plate? You are correct however regarding the law as there is no law governing MTPLM plates fixed to caravans.

Even if the specific mention of MPTLM hasn't been linked to the law on weight plates for caravans and trailers is stated quite clearly on this DirectGov PDF
Page11:
CONSTRUCTION AND USE REGULATIONS
All vehicles and trailers have their maximum authorised
mass (MAM) defined on a plate.Vehicles either show
the maximum weight that can be towed or the gross
combination weight of car and trailer, which allows
you to work out the maximum towing weight.
N.B:
Exceeding the towing capacity or the payload
of the vehicle may be considered an offence under
the Construction and Use Regulations. It may also
invalidate the vehicle insurance and any warranty on
the vehicle, as well as increasing the likelihood of
a mechanical fault.
Page 12:
Maker’s plate and number plate
The trailer must be fitted with a maker’s plate
showing its serial number,
gross weight, axle
weights and noseweight. It must also have a
number plate that matches the tow-car

If you are happy to tow without the information displayed good luck to you, you'll need it in the event of an accident.
The nit picking with regard to the law which deals with MTPLM and whether or not specific mention of it can be found via Google is a red herring, caravanners should not tow without the correct information displayed on the manufacturers plate and the required information shown above is quoted from a government website.

 

[xtrailman]

I know my max nose weight for the caravan, but where will I find a plate or label showing that info on a caravan?

I have vin on the windows, MTPLM on a sticker near the door, and axle limit on the axle, but don't recall any other label.