Vauxhall Zafira Tourer not rated to tow??.

[ProfJohnL]

Wow! That's helpful, thank you so much. We spoke to CAB and they said the same thing- that we are covered. Dealer isn't willing to admit liability though he has offered a refund minus his re-advertising costs (£250).

It is entirely up to you, but you are entitled to a FULL refund becasue he miss sold the vehicle. He knows that, and Ill bet that if you refuse his offer informing him you will take it to court unless you get a full refund, he will know he will lose the case, which means he could be liable for compensation as well as your costs, and if a trading standard's case is brought for miss representing the goods he could also face a fine.

Who's says crime doesn't pay? If you accept his offer, you are effectively paying his costs so he gets off scott free!

 

[wyldeandfree]

That’s a good outcome and saves you a lot of additional hassle albeit with the loss of £250.

It is entirely up to you, but you are entitled to a FULL refund becasue he miss sold the vehicle. He knows that, and Ill bet that if you refuse his offer informing him you will take it to court unless you get a full refund, he will know he will lose the case, which means he could be liable for compensation as well as your costs, and if a trading standard's case is brought for miss representing the goods he could also face a fine.

Who's says crime doesn't pay? If you accept his offer, you are effectively paying his costs so he gets off scott free!

I know. You are totally right - he is liable. And we have incurred a lot of costs in this purchase. More than he has! So it feels very unfair. However other than some savings tied up in a LISA this was more or less all our savings. So we remain without a car and can't buy another one until we get the money back. We don't live nearby and have stayed in a hotel near the dealer the last two nights while he has messed us around saying he is available and then isn't - back and forth. So we are bleeding money. It is a really hard situation. On principle I want to hold my ground but not sure that that that is actually wise.

 

[otherclive]

I know. You are totally right - he is liable. And we have incurred a lot of costs in this purchase. More than he has! So it feels very unfair. However other than some savings tied up in a LISA this was more or less all our savings. So we remain without a car and can't buy another one until we get the money back. We don't live nearby and have stayed in a hotel near the dealer the last two nights while he has messed us around saying he is available and then isn't - back and forth. So we are bleeding money. It is a really hard situation. On principle I want to hold my ground but not sure that that that is actually wise.

There are times when pragmatism outweighs pedantry and allows you to move on. Keeping the car whilst going for the full refund holds risks as well. Alternatively if the car is a nice one you could retain it and defer thoughts of a caravan, as caravans can spring some financial and stressful surprises too, as evidenced in Forum threads.

 

[wyldeandfree]

There are times when pragmatism outweighs pedantry and allows you to move on. Keeping the car whilst going for the full refund holds risks as well. Alternatively if the car is a nice one you could retain it and defer thoughts of a caravan, as caravans can spring some financial and stressful surprises too, as evidenced in Forum threads.

Yes exactly. Re the caravan, we already have a caravan and are living in it full time for a few months as of last week so a car is very important to our lives.

One of the frustrating things is that the car is otherwise a very good one for the price / age. But not fit for purpose in this case!

 

[Buckman]

Once he has refunded you, then is nothing stopping you claiming compensation or expenses due to misrepresentation. In the small claims court this can be for anything between £1 up to £10000 and if they lose, they pay all court costs.

Although court outcomes are generally never certain, I think in this case you would have a very strong case for compensation due to the misrepresentation plus the delay in returning your money. I think interest on your money he is holding is calculated at 8.5%?

 

[wyldeandfree]

We have decided to go for the refund albeit minus 250 and are off to try and see the dealer this morning. Wish us luck!

 

[otherclive]

We have decided to go for the refund albeit minus 250 and are off to try and see the dealer this morning. Wish us luck!

Good luck and hopefully you can then put this painful experience behind you, and look forwards again.

 

[wyldeandfree]

Good luck and hopefully you can then put this painful experience behind you, and look forwards again.

We got the refund and are moving on. Thanks everyone for your help and advice. If i get an answer from Vauxhall's investigation I will try to update you.

 

[RogerL]

We got the refund and are moving on. Thanks everyone for your help and advice. If i get an answer from Vauxhall's investigation I will try to update you.

When you find a replacement car, then BEFORE you do the deal get back on this forum with the details and we'll all cast our eyes over it for you.

 

[otherclive]

When you find a replacement car, then BEFORE you do the deal get back on this forum with the details and we'll all cast our eyes over it for you.

Plus details of your caravan MIRO and MTPLM fir matching purposes as you cannot just go by the car manufacturers towing limit as caravans tow differently to a motorbike trailer for example.

 

[wyldeandfree]

THANK YOU I definitely will!

 

[ProfJohnL]

.... Thanks everyone for your help and advice. If i get an answer from Vauxhall's investigation I will try to update you.

There is nothing for Vauxhall to investigate. The VIN plate is the defacto instrument, and if as you report it has 0000 on the GTW line that specific model was not deemed capable to tow.

Specifically related to the Zaffira Mk1 when they transplanted one particular engine and gearbox into the body which had a good towing reputation in other models of Vauxhall Opel, they discovered whilst it was fine driving solo but when tested for towing in the Zaffira, the cooling system could not manage becasue of the limited space in and around the engine bay.

The Mk2 Zaffira overcame these limitations with a new body and engine bay design.

 

[Mr Plodd]

Take the car back, accept the £250 hit and move on.
The stress and grief entailed in going down the legal route simply isn't worth it.

 

[Hutch]

Take tge car back, accept the £250 hit and mo

See #33, that's what they did😀.

 

[Mr Plodd]

See #33, that's what they did😀.

Doh!!

 

[Hutch]

Doh!!

I have the T shirt . 🥴

 

[Beachball]

We got the refund and are moving on. Thanks everyone for your help and advice. If i get an answer from Vauxhall's investigation I will try to update you.

A fantastic result so keep us updated what you buy next

 

[Raywood]

If you discussed towing and the salesman said it was a good tow car then they are liable but if it was verbal you have he problem of proving it if he denies this. At worst it is a fifty fifty case, so if you get tough with the dealer you might get somewhere, but you will have to assess the firm to see if they are worth pursuing. Possibly you will have to compromise given the evidence problem.
To be brutally honest you should have checked the cars plate but this failure is never going to over rule a salesman lying to you, but you have to convince he court of your position although in normal circumstances they would go with you.
I assume you paid over £10,000 which rules out the cheap small claims procedure and the next step might be a solicitors letter if you are willing to accept proceeding will cost you. If you are a club member their helpline might be a way forward or contact Citizens Advice. Proceedings will also take time which is also inconvenient so getting a decent offer against something else by the dealer might be a better approach.

 

[Buckman]

If you discussed towing and the salesman said it was a good tow car then they are liable but if it was verbal you have he problem of proving it if he denies this. At worst it is a fifty fifty case, so if you get tough with the dealer you might get somewhere, but you will have to assess the firm to see if they are worth pursuing. Possibly you will have to compromise given the evidence problem.
To be brutally honest you should have checked the cars plate but this failure is never going to over rule a salesman lying to you, but you have to convince he court of your position although in normal circumstances they would go with you.
I assume you paid over £10,000 which rules out the cheap small claims procedure and the next step might be a solicitors letter if you are willing to accept proceeding will cost you. If you are a club member their helpline might be a way forward or contact Citizens Advice. Proceedings will also take time which is also inconvenient so getting a decent offer against something else by the dealer might be a better approach.

The issue has been resolved as per an earlier post and they have a refund.

 

[wyldeandfree]

The issue has been resolved as per an earlier post and they have a refund.

Was just jumping on to say this too but nonetheless thank you so much for your advice, we are grateful to all those who have taken the time.

 

[Shaino]

Why would a huge diesel well know tow car be rated to tow nothing at all?

I stumbled upon the same question once. I had Skoda Superb 2.0 with their top diesel motor (400 torque, 188hp) and was very surprised when dealer refused to install a towbar as my car was not allowed to tow anything.
Apparently due to the powerful engine installing a towbar would require upgrading the coolant system which would have cost something about £5000 (25% of the car cost).
Same Skoda Superbs but with a motor that has less torque/hp can tow without issues.

 

[Lutz]

Yes, it's usually an engine cooling issue if the permissible towload is abnormally low or zero. I recall that the old Zafira 2.0 litre diesel had a max. towload which was less than 85% of its kerbweight, but this is the first case that I've come across that a Zefira has a zero rating, and that does surprise me. On the other hand, the 2.2 lire diesel back then had quite a respectable towload, but that model variant was never offered in the UK.

 

[wyldeandfree]

I can only think it must be an engine cooling issue in this case too though what I find surprising is that when you look through all the models with this engine you can't find any listed with a tow rating of zero. Must be an explanation somewhere- maybe Vauxhall will come back with an answer.

We viewed another very similar Zafira Tourer today - it's rating was 1500kg. Not huge, but more what I would expect.

 

[wyldeandfree]

OK we're starting to look at cars again. We haven't narrowed it down to one yet, but if anyone has views on the following, your advice is welcome!

Our Caravan is a Compass Merit Reflection 430/4 from 1994 (https://www.gocaravanning.com/caravan-specs/1571/Compass-Reflection-Merit-430-4-1994.html). Maximum allowable weight for the caravan is 1100kg.

We were towing it with a 2007 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 petrol engine. The caravan was well within the legal limits, but the car was very old (approx 190k miles) and it was fine for a good few journeys on the flat, including some long journeys, but the clutch gave out on a hill in the Peak District. We are looking to replace it. Our budget is 8000 GBP. We could probably stretch that a couple hundred more if we had to - but we had orginally hoped to spend more like 6k, and we lost something like GBP 700 in the saga of this thread...so we'd rather not go much above 8k if we can avoid it.

With the second hand market being what it is, this seems to rather limit our choices. We are currently stranded in the caravan in Southampton - we're borrowing a car (that can't tow) until we get this sorted. The criteria we have been looking at 70,000 miles or less (ideally less if it's a petrol, perhaps a little more if it's a diesel but not much!), 2010 or more recent, at least 1.8cc engine or bigger largely so that it can *comfortably* tow 1100kg, decent size boot, within the budget, and the make and model have decent reviews on Which / Practical Caravan / WhatCar / other similar sites, especially for reliability, safety and fuel efficiency. We were looking for ULEZ compliant too, but are now thinking we might have to compromise on that. We want something in good working condition - obviously - but aren't bothered by a few scratches or dents. Ideally we'd like a warranty, and to buy from a dealer, but we're open to compromising on that too.

So far we've identified the following options:

* Vauxhall Zafira 2014, 69,650 miles, diesel manual, 2.0 CDTi Elite MPV 5dr Diesel Manual Euro 5 (165 ps), not ULEZ compliant, £8271 (but potentially willing to negotiate on price), braked tow weigh on VC5 shown as 1500kg, on VIN plate the GTW minus the MAM on vin plate is 1525kg. We have test driven this one and it didn't feel as powerful as I was expecting, but we seem to be well within its technical capacity. Claimed 53.3 mpg combined urban and extra-urban. Tax £180/yr.

* Ford Kuga 2012, 62,550 miles, diesel manual, 2.0 Tdci 163 Titanium 5Dr, not ULEZ compliant, £7995, GTW minus the MAM on vin plate is 2100kg, not seen this car in person yet. Claimed 47.10 mpg combined urban and extra-urban. Expensive tax - £240/yr.

* Honda CR-V, 64,500 miles, petrol automatic, 2.0 i-VTEC SE Auto 4WD Euro 5 5dr, ULEZ compliant, £7699, haven't seen the VIN plate (or car) yet. Doesn't have great reviews on Practical Caravan as a tow car, but that was for the 2WD, not sure how different the 4WD would be. Claimed 33.60 mpg combined urban and extra-urban. Very expensive tax - £365/yr.

* Mitsubishi Outlander, 93,000 miles, diesel manual, 2.2 DI-D GX4 4WD Euro 5 5dr, not ULEZ compliant, £6995, GTW minus the MAM on vin plate is 2100kg. Claimed 44.8 mpg combined urban and extra-urban. Not sure tax.

We also looked at a couple Mazda CX-5 cars but we haven't managed to fin done from a reputable dealer in decent condition yet.

If anyone has any immediate thoughts we go to view these cars tomorrow and the next day, really grateful to hear them.

 

[Buckman]

I would think that the Honda or the Mitsubishi would be your best bet especially the Honda for reliability.