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Mar 14, 2005
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When we tow down to the New Forest 176 miles we normally record between 25 -27% of the journey regeneration, on shorter journeys down to Broadway 75 miles near 37%.
These figures do not seem to make sense, Regeneration only occurs when the vehicle is actually recharging the battery. Are you referring to zero emmision mileage? Can you clarify please?
 

Sam Vimes

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Sep 7, 2020
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I'd suggest that it may be other changes that are giving your mpg increase - some cars have been using smart alternators since the 1990s without any big jumps in fuel economy - smart alternators help rather than hinder fuel consumption just like removal of spare wheels and smaller fuel tanks but they're small individual gains.
I'm sure there's more to it than just the Smart Alternator but as for the factors you mention - the newer car is heavier, it has the same spare wheel and the fuel tank is the same size.

Whatever they did, small changes here and there resulted in a 30% increase in mpg.
 
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Jan 20, 2023
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On the subject of weight as someone mentioned it earlier, an Audi A6 in petrol form (TFSI) has a MIRO of 1865kgs, my TFSI-e (plug in hybrid) version has a MIRO of 2250kgs. Battery, motor, structural mods to accommodate it all, wiring etc, etc sure do add to the weight.
 
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These figures do not seem to make sense, Regeneration only occurs when the vehicle is actually recharging the battery. Are you referring to zero emmision mileage? Can you clarify please?
The Toyota RAV4/Suzuki Across hybrid system operates differently to your VW system to difficult to compare.
 
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Jul 23, 2021
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Buckman hit the nail on the head. The delays lead to working inefficiency.

When I worked time was critical. Never late for meetings, cram in as much as possible. Charging time delays alone would have caused me personal time issues and I suspect unnecessary stress .

For a local runabout , always home charging the EV may work for us. Sadly both cars are used regularly mostly long journeys and towing.
It’s time the U.K. enjoyed cheaper electricity cost🤬
Not convinced by the delays cost money argument. If you charge at home, and 90% of your journeys are inside the range of your car, with just the occasional public rapid charging, the saving of time over dedicated trips to the fuel station easily nets out. Further, if I am stopping to charge at a public charger, I am probably having a comfort break anyway. Combining the two adds basically no additional time just to charge.
With the right subscritpion, public charging is as little a 35p / kWh. Thats no more expensive than petrol or diesel.
But given the majority of charging is from home, the net net is a saving to the employer.
 
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Jul 23, 2021
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A fully-expensed car in the '80s was a gold mine for those of us doing higher than average annual mileages - particulary if we didn't need to show the car registration on receipts - mine used to fully cover my Vauxhall Cavalier, driven like a hooligan, and my wife's Ford Escort 1.6.

The only better deal was/is the management car scheme at car makers - my brother-in-law used to get 2 new cars every 6 months, paying just a nominal rental and no tax - since he retired he "only" gets 1 car every 6 months - shame!
My post was just a simple snap shot of a pre Christmas EV trip one off.

Comparisons and deep investigation were never the intention. Nothing to do with business.
Even in my day the free fuel card was a no no because of the income tax implications. You needed to cover 30 K private miles a year to break even. We abandoned private use fuel cards in the mid 90s because of the high taxation. Showing your age Clive with the “old days”😉
With EVs, this "perk" is back and once again valuable. For a full EV, there is no BIK on nay charging for personal miles, and with the still low (2% but now on an escalator, 1 % per year from next year) BIK on the car, they are cheap for employees. But they are also cheap for employers too. Just as there is no BIK on charging, so there is no NIC on that payment, and with charging from home being 90% of the fuel spend at just 7p per kWh, the actual spend on fuel for the company is very low. AND the funding of an EV vs ICE gets tax breaks for the company too.
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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Not convinced by the delays cost money argument. If you charge at home, and 90% of your journeys are inside the range of your car, with just the occasional public rapid charging, the saving of time over dedicated trips to the fuel station easily nets out. Further, if I am stopping to charge at a public charger, I am probably having a comfort break anyway. Combining the two adds basically no additional time just to charge.
With the right subscritpion, public charging is as little a 35p / kWh. Thats no more expensive than petrol or diesel.
But given the majority of charging is from home, the net net is a saving to the employer.
As a matter of interest if the car was a normal ICE vehicle and it was used for business i.e. sales rep whether doing low or high mileage, would you be happy to pay for the fuel as in essence that is what you are doing with home charging?

When I was working, I seldom stopped for a lunch break and would be travelling up to 200 miles a day. No such thing as services to stop at as most of the driving was on A roads.

Grabbed a coke and sandwich from supermarket if I was passing one. Point is not every one uses motorways for travelling to destinations and does not have the convenience of services. At the time I was working for Channel 5 and my area was from north Birmingham across to Coventry and right down to Abergavenny and the valleys. I did not have the time to stop for a break of even 30 minutes. Obviously a bit different today with all the new rules and regulations.
 
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As a matter of interest if the car was a normal ICE vehicle and it was used for business i.e. sales rep whether doing low or high mileage, would you be happy to pay for the fuel as in essence that is what you are doing with home charging?
I am not paying for home charging - the company is. For my charger it's a direct reimbursement, for others you just track the usage and claim via expenses.

When I was working, I seldom stopped for a lunch break and would be travelling up to 200 miles a day. No such thing as services to stop at as most of the driving was on A roads.
You are thinking petrol, not EV. Rapid EV chargers are everywhere including A roads.

Grabbed a coke and sandwich from supermarket if I was passing one. Point is not every one uses motorways for travelling to destinations and does not have the convenience of services.
There are lots of supermarkets with rapid chargers. Waitrose use Shell, Lidl and Tesco use PodPoint, Morisons use Geneipoint, Sainsbury's are rolling out their own, Booths have Instavolt. Thats the beauty of electricity - it's everywhere already.
At the time I was working for Channel 5 and my area was from north Birmingham across to Coventry and right down to Abergavenny and the valleys. I did not have the time to stop for a break of even 30 minutes. Obviously a bit different today with all the new rules and regulations.
And even if it's just a pop into a regular forecourt, lots of those now have MFG EVPower chargers. Park and put on charge - go in, use loo, buy sandwich and drink, eat them in the shop (it it has a cafe area) or in the car (if not). If you really need a bit longer to charge - get laptop or phone out and catch up on back officestuff or emails etc.

The work day has become so flexible, there is always something to be done whether sat in a car, on a train at an airport etc. The 5 or 10 mins extra charging does not need to be unproductive, unlike holding a fuel hose which can be about nothing else.
 
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With the right subscritpion, public charging is as little a 35p / kWh. Thats no more expensive than petrol or diesel.
But given the majority of charging is from home, the net net is a saving to the employer.
Can you elaborate on that bit? 35p/kWh is about on-par with petrol costs for my car so if I could charge it at the same rate I probably would (not towing though) but have no idea how to obtain such a low rate! Thanks
 
Nov 6, 2005
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I am not paying for home charging - the company is. For my charger it's a direct reimbursement, for others you just track the usage and claim via expenses.


You are thinking petrol, not EV. Rapid EV chargers are everywhere including A roads.


There are lots of supermarkets with rapid chargers. Waitrose use Shell, Lidl and Tesco use PodPoint, Morisons use Geneipoint, Sainsbury's are rolling out their own, Booths have Instavolt. Thats the beauty of electricity - it's everywhere already.

And even if it's just a pop into a regular forecourt, lots of those now have MFG EVPower chargers. Park and put on charge - go in, use loo, buy sandwich and drink, eat them in the shop (it it has a cafe area) or in the car (if not). If you really need a bit longer to charge - get laptop or phone out and catch up on back officestuff or emails etc.

The work day has become so flexible, there is always something to be done whether sat in a car, on a train at an airport etc. The 5 or 10 mins extra charging does not need to be unproductive, unlike holding a fuel hose which can be about nothing else.
Recent surveys show that London and South-east has plenty of chargers but the north-south divide means the rest of the UK is less well served - so plenty of chargers were EVs are more popular for short journeys but not so plentiful elsewhere.

Why is it now normal to buy food/drink while refueling/recharging a car, no wonder the country has an obesity problem! What's wrong with the traditional "refuel, pay for it,
continue journey" ?
 
Jul 23, 2021
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Can you elaborate on that bit? 35p/kWh is about on-par with petrol costs for my car so if I could charge it at the same rate I probably would (not towing though) but have no idea how to obtain such a low rate! Thanks
Tesla superchargers with a subscription when charging off peak. Have a look at the Tesla app, add a credit card for payment and then explore chargers around you. Even without the subscription, my closest charger (Northampton) is 61p peak and 51p off peak. With subscription it's 39p off peak and 48p peak. Even off peak, with a 4 mile/kWh car you are still at 12p per mile which is the cheaper end of ICE. When you combine that with home charging, you are definitely cheaper over all.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I am not paying for home charging - the company is. For my charger it's a direct reimbursement, for others you just track the usage and claim via expenses.


You are thinking petrol, not EV. Rapid EV chargers are everywhere including A roads.


There are lots of supermarkets with rapid chargers. Waitrose use Shell, Lidl and Tesco use PodPoint, Morisons use Geneipoint, Sainsbury's are rolling out their own, Booths have Instavolt. Thats the beauty of electricity - it's everywhere already.
My point was that I did not have enough time to spend 20-30 minutes at a recharging station that is if it working and there is space. I am sure the same applies today.
 
Jul 23, 2021
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Recent surveys show that London and South-east has plenty of chargers but the north-south divide means the rest of the UK is less well served - so plenty of chargers were EVs are more popular for short journeys but not so plentiful elsewhere.
Assuming you can home charge (and yes there are those who can't, for whom solutions need to be found) you don't need public charging. In my experience, the density of chargers in London and the south east are from, slow destination types - specifically to help those who cant home charge. In the rest of the country, the balance is in the other direction, with more rapid chargers, helping those who are on longer trips.
Why is it now normal to buy food/drink while refueling/recharging a car, no wonder the country has an obesity problem! What's wrong with the traditional "refuel, pay for it,
continue journey" ?
Different methodology. With petrol you stop because the car needs to. While you are filling the car, you cant do anything else, partly because you are holding the refilling nozzle and partly because not all fuel stations have toilets. With EV you stop when the person needs to and charge while on the person stop. Almost every rapid EV charger I have been to has a facility associated with it.
 
Jan 20, 2023
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My point was that I did not have enough time to spend 20-30 minutes at a recharging station that is if it working and there is space. I am sure the same applies today.
Nowadays employers encourage anyone driving on company business to take a break, from memory it's endorsed by ROSPA and the like to try and reduce accidents caused by fatigue.
 
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Nov 6, 2005
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Assuming you can home charge (and yes there are those who can't, for whom solutions need to be found) you don't need public charging. In my experience, the density of chargers in London and the south east are from, slow destination types - specifically to help those who cant home charge. In the rest of the country, the balance is in the other direction, with more rapid chargers, helping those who are on longer trips.

Different methodology. With petrol you stop because the car needs to. While you are filling the car, you cant do anything else, partly because you are holding the refilling nozzle and partly because not all fuel stations have toilets. With EV you stop when the person needs to and charge while on the person stop. Almost every rapid EV charger I have been to has a facility associated with it.
I regularly take 4 other people out for the day - on longer trips we have to stop for a comfort break - it NEVER takes more than 10 minutes, often only 5 minutes if the toilets are close by the parking - just how much recharging can you actually achieve in such a short time, less the time it takes to plug-in, authorise and then disconnect afterwards.

I can drive anywhere solo in the UK without having to refuel as it's "only" 560 miles to the north coast of Scotland, much less than that down to Cornwall - if/when I switch to an EV I know I'll have to take recharging stops into account for journey planning which will increase overall journey times.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Nowadays employers encourage anyone driving on company business to take a break, from memory it's endorsed by ROSPA and the like to try and reduce accidents caused by fatigue.
A cynic would say it's only the advent of EV charging delay that's highlighted the "need" for breaks to avoid fatigue.
 
Jan 20, 2023
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Tesla superchargers with a subscription when charging off peak. Have a look at the Tesla app, add a credit card for payment and then explore chargers around you. Even without the subscription, my closest charger (Northampton) is 61p peak and 51p off peak. With subscription it's 39p off peak and 48p peak. Even off peak, with a 4 mile/kWh car you are still at 12p per mile which is the cheaper end of ICE. When you combine that with home charging, you are definitely cheaper over all.
Thanks, a quick look shows there's a £9 monthly subscription fee which (for me) wouldn't be worth it with a hybrid that can't use the rapid charging rates, but anyone doing a lot of business miles and able to use fast chargers it would make sense.
 
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Jul 23, 2021
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My point was that I did not have enough time to spend 20-30 minutes at a recharging station that is if it working and there is space. I am sure the same applies today.
On the latter part "it its working and there is a space" is a non-issue. The car can tell you that before you get there. On the former part, not enough time to stop - I think that is very dependent on your job, on your employer, on the nature of the stop.
 
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A cynic would say it's only the advent of EV charging delay that's highlighted the "need" for breaks to avoid fatigue.
No, it was being pushed by HR departments and fleet managers 20 years ago when I drove a company car. The H&S side of thigs bit firmly before the EV side of things.
 
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