Was I wise in buying a brand new Bailey.

[trucker]

Hi Royston, sorry to hear that your not getting sorted, dont know what to sugest other than go through with the rejection. It seams that your dealer is dragging their feet, try and speak to someone at Bailey to find out when the parts will be ready, or try and get Bailey take the van back to do the replacement

Good luck with what you decide and keep us posted

Kevin

 

[ProfJohnL]

Royston,

Things are clearly getting out of hand, and it is about time you shake the bag of bits up again.

The problem you are having is with the dealer. You have no contract with the manufacturer, so you remedy is to pursue the dealer.

As you have already had some work done which you have subsequently rejected it is time to seek professional legal advice on how you can either push the dealer to complete the work of to sue them for damages (loss of use, and damaged to the value of the caravans)

 

[Chrisbee]

I spoke to a newbee at the storage compound today. Their 3 week old swift has a lump on the rear corner which looks exactly like a bodged panel repair job. Even the colour isn't a good match. Taken with the cut/split awning rail trim rubber and nicks in the rail, I think their dealer is being less than honest! Any damage caused prior to delivery to the dealer should have been picked up on PDI and at the very least a new panel fitted. The other possibility is that this brand new van was damaged at the dealers so they are obviously trying it on!

No wonder I don't trust dealers1

 

[Dustydog]

Words fail me. And he never knew!

Cheers

Alan

 

[Alan_374342797]

Hi Royston

Ive read postings on this forum for quite a while and the conclusion was I bought a new Coachman. I Dont recal any newish Coachman having this problem and I bet they also get their panels from the same supplier. They use acrilic capped ABS and i wonder if the faults on other makes like Bailey Swift and Avon etc maybe down to construction methods. We all know Coachman are very heavy in comparison to most other makes but does that mean they support the front and rear panels better therefore less likely to twist and cause cracks etc.

Coachman also I belive test each year on the pave at the Alko test track in Germany and therefore maybe more knowledgable to where their carvans are prone to stress, twist and vibration and beef up accordingly. They are I'am told the only UK manufacturer to do this.

I also noted no issues with Hymer and other German makes who are also rather heavy.

Does anyone no of any cracking on Coachman and German caravans, they seem to be better built I think.

Regards

Alan

 

[weejock]

I seem to recall from another forum that some Hymers that had the door in front of the axle were suffering from stress fractures above the door.

It seems that Hymer blamed it on hitting potholes.

 

[Royston]

Attn Trucker,

At long last things are moving, the van has moved from the Dealers compound to their workshop.

This morning I received a reply from the MD of Baileys , who advised me among other things that awning rails that the Dealer kept advising me they were waiting delivery, had in fact been delivered to the dealer.Contacted the dealer who advised me that

the van should be ready for collection next Tuesday.

Royston

 

[Chris_5074163]

Hi Trucker, Good news things are on the move , alas cannot say the same for my Bailey, its now three weeks since I rejected the van for the bodge repair, and the dealer fineally agreeing that they would fit the brand new rear panel that Baileys had supplied them, rang the dealer this morning their reply still awaiting spares new awning rails.Its now 12 days since i wrote a letter to the MD of Baileys requesting could some person advise what is causeing these cracks to appear in the rear and front panels in van that is only two years old, Alas still no response .

Anybody out there got any thoughts as what my next move should be.

Royston

Royston I too have a cracked panel. Did you get a response from the MD. I phoned Bailey's customer services and they denied there being a problem. Strange since there are so many forums stating problems with them for swift and Baileys.

 

[Chris_5074163]

Royston I too have a cracked panel on my ranger 5. Would like to know what was the MD's response.

 

[trucker]

Great news Royson, Im still waiting (now over a week ) for Swift to confirm the work to be carried out and a date for the works. This industry doesnt half move slow doent it

Kevin

 

[Royston]

Attn Chris,

With regards to my enquiry to the MD with regards to what could be causing the front and rear panels to be failing, was advised the following,Part of the reason for the cracking was the approved sealant that was specified by the panel manufactures and the raw material supplier had a long term detrimental affect on the capped and uncapped ABS panels.This sealant has been discontinued in production and a alternative supplier has been utilised since June 2007.

All repairs undertaken by our Retailer network utilise a pre-packed sealant kit which includes this new sealant.

Had my caravan been built after that date , I can only assume that I would not have had to put up with the trama that has occured trying to get the problem sorted out.

Untill I inspect the van at the Dealers on completion of the repair ie fitting of a brand new rear panel , Finding no faults will I be able to go forward once again into the relaxing world of caravanning.

Royston

 

[Royston]

At last our Bailey is back on our front drive, completly repaired to a very high standard, I hope Trucker that your van will be the same.

Royston

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Royston,

That good news at last.

I sincerely hope that the repairs are as substantial and that you have no further problem with it.

Happy caravanning.

 

[trucker]

Royston, Im glad your sorted, were still waiting for a date for the van to go in. Hope im as pleased as you seem to be. Ill keep you posted.

Kevin

 

[Frank_374237154]

Bailey end panels are vacuum formed in acrylic capped ABS.

I had 30 years experience in the industry and predicted this problem with cracking some time ago in this forum.

There are three main causes:

1) Vibration around fixing points.Unlikely in a caravan but possible.I once supplied a new customer with a cover for a compressor which stress fractured around the fixing bolts in a few hours use due to the vibration of the single cylinder engine.

2)ABS absorbs chemicals,and once it has done so tends to go brittle and crack.It especially dislikes aromatic chemicals such as white spirit,ammonia,alcohols etc.Clean your caravan ends with an aggressive fluid and it will eventually crack.It is not always obvious what is in a domestic product:my wife took out three ABS shower control unit covers with Flash.All three cracked around the hidden fixings.

3) UV degradation.Ordinary ABS loses half its impact strength in 6 months UV exposure.Acrylic capped is much better as the acrylic

capping acts as a filter,but even this will eventually degrade

(probably outside the six year warranty).

I suspect the cleaning fluid used is the culprit,as this explains why one persons caravan cracks and the next persons identical model does not.

There is some confusion out there as some earlier caravans (eg Abbey) originally used fibre glass panels,which are a totally different material.On the outside these panels look identical,however inside they will have either a woven pattern or a chopped strand look.ABS panels are totally smooth inside and out.The only true repair for an ABS panel is total replacement as there is only a mechanical bond between filler and panel and this will eventually fail.Also if the ABS is brittle in one place due to absorption,then other areas will be the same and waiting for their turn to fail.

On my Vendee I used plain water to clean,and Mer polish to give a shine and take out stains as this stated it was suitable for caravan use,and I had no trouble in the four years I had it.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Frank

Very interesting particularly item no 2.

Maybe there is some truth then that Fenwicks overwintering was absorbed by the ABS panel causing pemature failure?

I continue to use Fenwicks products on my Wyoming and teh Vendee before with no adverse effect.

UV degradation.

Now I really am beginning to wonder if ABS is the correct material for use on a caravan??

Cheers

Alan

 

[Royston]

Gosh Frank,

Wished i had read your comments a couple of years ago, perhaps

my problems would not have happened, so glad that I stuck out and got a complete new rear panel and not agreed to accept the partly repairing of the original panel.

After monitoring various comments with regards to this mysterious cracking of the new type end panels, I have chucked the cleaning and polising brand that might be the cause, Did this whilst I was waiting for the van to be repaired.

Thought about fitting of shock absorbers but people with these fitted have still fallen foul of their end panels cracking.

must admit though I have remembered to have the van wheels balanced something i have always done in the past.

Why oh why have these manufactures gone down this path of fitted this new type of construction, okay you can now stand on the roof, so what I have never ever had the need to stand on any caravan roof that I have owned in the past, when it rains the noise is still there, and upon reflection never ever had any problems with the old type of roof fitting.

Royston

 

[Frank_374237154]

Following up my previous post:

Vacuum formed ABS panels are used for ease of production and lower cost,not because they are "best for purpose".

Once the significant cost of the mould has been paid,the panels can be vacuum formed at a rate in excess of 10 panels/hr (depending on the sophistication of machinery).They offer styling opportunities that other production methods cannot match.Unfortunately the plastic material in my opinion will not last as long as the aluminium cladding on the body panels and roof.I would personally prefer fibre glass,which can be repaired when it cracks.

I would have thought that established specialist manufacturers such as Fenwicks would be aware of the problems and formulate their products accordingly.The problems come when people get on site,or at home,and use things like tar remover,white spirit for the dead flies,and car shampoos designed to work on metal painted bodies.There should be more warning and direction in the manufacturers manual in respect of this problem.

 

[Dustydog]

This is one of those subjects that just wont go away.

Is it possible for Swift, Bailey, Explore etc and indeed PC's Doug King to give some advice on how best we can all look after our caravans with these panels?

Cheers

Alan

 

[rich the stag]

Should have bought an Adria mate!!

We have just bought the 542 DT with the triple bunk layout.

Now theres alot of caravan for under

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Frank,

Your point 1 regarding stress fractures. The vibrations produced in caravans under towing conditions are quite surprising, in acceleration, amplitude and direction. Obviously it depends on the quality of the road surface, but even on urban roads accelerations of about 4G are not uncommon. Most surprisingly the high G accelerations are mainly generated by the tow hitch and car, rather than the caravans main axle, which generally has lower frequency but larger amplitude.

I have witnessed structural failure of caravan fittings in under two hours of a caravan being towed over the equivalent of a Belgian pave surface. Admittedly this is an extreme test, but it is reckoned to be the equivalent of moderate usage over 5 to 8 years.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Alan,

As per your recent question in the 'Technical' section:-

The headline question is, "Was I wise in buying a brand new Bailey" (Royston 17th Oct 2008)

So the questioner is technically asking about his wisdom, not the caravan!

Reading the headline thread, he has suffered a range of problems, and the logical conclusion he was unwise to buy that caravan.

Happy Christmas!

 

[Dustydog]

Hi John,

Mmm interesting "Was I wise.."

I get your point . However "wise " implies he has knowledge before he chooses so was it is his wisdom that failed or the Bailey ?LOL A bit early for a G&T yet.

I was interested in his comments about the ABS panels.

On the basis that wisdom failed him because he could not look in the crystal ball and see he'd bought a dog then I concede "He was not wise".

Enjoy the break. We're at my sisters in Birmingham. No where to run the Spaniels, guess I'll have to drive somewhere.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

yes

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jo-Anne,

Just be argumentative

NO - because I don't know what I might be agreeing to!

Happy Christmas