Waste pipe plumbing - poor design

Sep 7, 2020
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We've just done our maiden voyage in our new Xplore 304. A few niggles which I'll detail in another saga but one I want to fix quickly since we have another trip coming up concerns the waste pipe from the kitchen sink and bathroom basin.

Both sink and basin waste pipes are connected to the opposite points of a T fitting. The stem then goes out the side of the van to the waste master. Problem is that if the kitchen sink or bathroom basin are being used at the same time, when one has the plug pulled to empty it the other plug gets push up because the air is being forced back up the pipe. Mostly its annoying but possibly some waste water may also makes its way up the pipe which wouldn't be good.

I suspect that changing the fitting to something like a swept T or even a Y fitting might help but maybe you folks have other ideas. A source for parts would also be good if you have any recommendations.

Many thanks
 
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Jun 16, 2020
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Your solution makes good logic.

The waste on mine was not great. but I manged to make a large improvement. The manufacturer had brought it diagonally across the underside of the floor with fixings about every 450mm. I removed and refitted with increasing plastic spacers as much as I could, the limiting factors being the hole in the chassis it passes through and the outlet which I dropped a bit.

In this way I got about 30-40mm of fall, not a lot but considering it had zero beforehand the improvement was noticeable.

Easy job, except I had to crawl under the van.

John
 
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personally i was looking to replace the whole lot for 32mm push fit, fittings and pipe to increase flow and better organise the waste outlets and pipe work


I agree with the 32mm choice, but that video is very ill informed. Solvent is never used on guttering as he says. and when used on waste it bonds almost instantly, not 24 hours, also roughening is not a requirement.

But I would not use solvent. Push fit is more user friendly and, though initially slightly dearer, you don't need the solvent.

Also, these might be useful to move between convoluted and straight.

John
 
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Sep 7, 2020
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Many thanks for your replies. I think the best option is to seperate the two waste feeds as far as possible and then join them through a Y fitting somewhere near the discharge point.

So, two x 90 bends, a Y fitting and a length of flexible pipe - all 28mm. I'm hoping the solid pipe fittings are just puch fit and not solvent weld. It would just save cutting them off.

Thanks again
 
Sep 7, 2020
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I don't think so as water from one sink or basin would still be able to push up the other way. Apart from which there's no space to fit such a trap.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Many thanks for your replies. I think the best option is to seperate the two waste feeds as far as possible and then join them through a Y fitting somewhere near the discharge point.

So, two x 90 bends, a Y fitting and a length of flexible pipe - all 28mm. I'm hoping the solid pipe fittings are just puch fit and not solvent weld. It would just save cutting them off.

Thanks again
The pipe is relatively cheap. Why not just plumb in two separate outlets?
 
Sep 7, 2020
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Its possible but there are two already and that way would make a third. I already have a two into one connection to go into the wastemaster, so I would now have to get three outlets down to one somewhere because the wastemaster will only take one 28mm pipe.
 
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I've seen those. Do they work ok and are they easy to get the wastemaster unde?. I notice your picture shows it fitting into the low end by the handle whereas I usually use the highest point at the wheel end.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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I've seen those. Do they work ok and are they easy to get the wastemaster unde?. I notice your picture shows it fitting into the low end by the handle whereas I usually use the highest point at the wheel end.
For me , I use both entry points. Depends on the ground and how the caravan has been levelled. Whilst I show the outlet in a downward plane it can of course exit sideways. It really doesn’t matter which wastemaster entry point you use. The higher one may allow you a couple of extra pints🤪🤪
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Just another question. Are the 28mm solid pipe fittings just push fit?
If you get the white whites as per the picture above they are push fit. When we had 3 outlets we made up one of thsoe units, but as we now only have two outlets we simply use a Y joiner for the waste pipes.
 
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Altered the waste pipes this morning. Cold and damp laying under the van and it took about 45 minutes. Would have been quicker if I hadn't had to wriggle out 2 or 3 times because I forgot bits.

Took out the offending T joint and replaced it with two Elbows. Pushed the existing flexible pipe onto one elbow and then reduced the length before pushing onto a Y joint. Did the same with the other Elbow and a new piece of pipe. Then from the Y joint to the connection on the edge of the van.

Tested with a watering can full of water and no interaction between the two sinks.

Also took the opportunity to re-route the shower waste slightly to give it more of a downward slope.

*******

It seems to me that there are still a number design practices in current vans that need updating. Waste water drainage being just one.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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Routing the drainage is simple to design, but manufactures are too complacent, stuck in the past and convinced that their method saves a few pence.

Even if it adds a little to the vans costs. It is an opportunity for promotion and customer satisfaction.

John
 
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Our Elddis made van has two separate outlets ie bathroom separate to kitchen. Am thinking this is a money saving on the xplore range. ? They are amazing vfm.
 
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Our Elddis made van has two separate outlets ie bathroom separate to kitchen. Am thinking this is a money saving on the xplore range. ? They are amazing vfm.
Ours also has two outlets. One for the shower tray since its lower than the basins and you don't want it backfilling. One for the Kitchen and Bathroom Sinks - but poorly implemented.
 
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I think that since the bean counters seem to dominant the activities of most public companies the emphasis is always on profit which then, in an attempt to increase this, focuses on driving the manufacturing and support costs down. The problem is the same bean counters seldom look at the cost of poor quality which results in the loss of sales.

It costs more to fix something once its shipped than to do it right first time.

It seems to be an accepted practice that if your selling many millions of widgets then losing a few customers doesn't really matter. Caravan manufacturers though are in a much lower league so each unit not sold should be a significant loss of income.
 
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As with all walks of life, quality costs time.
Time is humans and humans are very very expensive. Especially employed humans.

You could go down the route of two price lists. Cheap and cheerfull and best quality and more money. Very few will pay for the extra quality. Its all hidden away as well. £25k caravan or a £27K caravan that's exactly the same and works in every respect the same way as the cheaper model. Its very hard to quantify or justify as a business.

I have always had the simple knowledge that all caravan manufactures work to a very low level of quality and even lower customer satisfaction. I have just brought a victon solar controller and a better victon power system. new batteries (2) and leads and cables. waste water plumbing pipes, armaflex air duct insulation for the heating system under caravan pipes. New or replacement Fiamma roof vent covers. spare battery protection box. replaced all lamps to LED, except for road lights. far better security and protection systems.

i dont have to but i want to as i want a caravan thats better quality than when it left the production shed
I think that there are offering types of caravan buyer, as there are car buyers, but with some differences.

Those that buy new basic models.
Those that are manufacturer loyal.
Those that want all the bells and whistles.
Those that intend to change every couple of years.
Those that love to improve their vans. And are not too good at it!
Those that love to improve their vans. And are very good at it.

I have only purchased two vans from new. One in 1990, as basic as they come. But a complete lemon.
The current one. 2015. Lucky for me it’s dry. As it is everything we want or need.

For future purchase I would look for a top of the range but up to two years old. Let someone else have the initial depreciation. I do the same with cars.

The thought of needing to get under it to improve the drainage with my mobility issues puts me off.



John
 

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