Weight upgrade

[otherclive]

I don't accept it's recent history - UK caravan makers have skimped on payloads for decades, certainly since the '70s - there has been no reduction in caravan payloads, the UK makers have always used the minimum NCC requirements for most models.

Car roof boxes can't take much payload - roof limits are typically 100 kg, sometimes less, but that includes the roof box itself and the bars to fit it on - so much better for any caravan excess to be carried in the car itself..

Sometime the excess is bulk rather than weight, so eminently suitable for a roof box, plus if you have a puncture there's less gear to offload by the roadside as you access your spare, which may not be easily accessible.

 

[Beachball]

Our payload on our caravan is 182kg i don"t think it to bad for touring we normally load the clothes, , cooler box wheelchair Petgear into our car the new awning goes over the axle . a upgrade to 200kg would be great .

 

[Ern]

The role of NCC and it's daughter companies like CHRIS is certainly interesting!
As far as I am aware, they have no statutory authority and simply represent their trading member's interests.

 

[Anseo]

The role of NCC and it's daughter companies like CHRIS is certainly interesting!
As far as I am aware, they have no statutory authority and simply represent their trading member's interests.

I give little no heed to anything associated or connected to all things NCC, they primarily exist to service trading members (and those who pay for their accreditation of a product\service etc.).

E.G. Batteries as a case in point.

 

[Lutz]

We need to ask ourselves how the UK got into such as mess implementing an EU standard when other countries in the EU didn't.

I don’t know what you mean by “an EU standard“. If you mean the minimum payload formula that’s not an EU standard. That’s an international industry standard that has nothing to do with the EU. It is, after all, only a minimum requirement that Continental manufacturers exceed anyway. It’s just that the NCC in their infinite wisdom appear to have forced UK manufacturers to quote MTPLMs according to that minimum standard.

 

[Ern]

I give little no heed to anything associated or connected to all things NCC, they primarily exist to service trading members (and those who pay for their accreditation of a product\service etc.).

E.G. Batteries as a case in point.

I agree. Trade bodies are often consulted as interested parties representing their industry, but I think this one is too pushy. The company seems to constantly try to promote itself as an authority of some kind, and even the insurance companies are now demanding CHRIS (NCC) compliance. The interests of retail customers, who ultimately pay for it all, is certainly not at its heart. I'd better shut up, as this is technically thread drift.

 

[Ern]

Perhaps a new thread about the role of NCC in the industry is worth a go?

 

[ProfJohnL]

We need to ask ourselves how the UK got into such as mess implementing an EU standard when other countries in the EU didn't.

Its whoever decided to create industry advice based on towing ratio's.

 

[Buckman]

Car roof boxes can't take much payload - roof limits are typically 100 kg, sometimes less, but that includes the roof box itself and the bars to fit it on - so much better for any caravan excess to be carried in the car itself..

Our Jeep is limited to a load of 60kg on the roof. We put the bulky stuuf like the windbreaks, awning poles, groundsheets and canopy in it. Awning itself sits in the car as too heavy and bulky for us to load in the roof box anyway.

 

[Raywood]

The increase I could have obtained for our caravan was only 30 kg which did not seem worth the bother. What it does mean though is that if the higher figure was applied if I did not have the B+E licence it would move the outfit over 3,500 kg and on the advice now given it would be illegal,.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The increase I could have obtained for our caravan was only 30 kg which did not seem worth the bother. What it does mean though is that if the higher figure was applied if I did not have the B+E licence it would move the outfit over 3,500 kg and on the advice now given it would be illegal,.

It has always been the law - its nothing new

 

[ProfJohnL]

Perhaps a new thread about the role of NCC in the industry is worth a go?

Why not start it?

 

[Ern]

Why not start it?

I think it could be difficult to speak frankly within the forum t&c's, so I would have to abstain .

 

[JezzerB]

Crikey-might be well worth doing and trying to be polite-be v intersting perhaps? I'm obviously a total innocent here- all I know is they approve the safety of the caravan ie set a certain standard=bit like the CE approval-or TUV-seems I may be wrong?

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think it could be difficult to speak frankly within the forum t&c's, so I would have to abstain .

I'm no great fan of the NCC, primarily becasue they like to suggest they take consumer matters seriously, but when it comes to the crunch they have no authority over the manufacturers they represent.

Their primary function is to act as a parliamentary lobbying on behalf of their members - who are all trade organisations.

They do help to coordinate industry wide initiatives. and they do provide a means of disseminating NCC members agreed policies, but they are not a police force for the industry.

The worst sanction they can inflict is suspension of membership of the NCC, and as their is no legal requirement for a caravan or OEM manufacturer to be a member to enable them to sell retail product or services, that may not adversely curtail.

The NCC does sit on various caravanning related the government standards committees but they do not run it nor do they have right veto a majority decision.

 

[Lutz]

Crikey-might be well worth doing and trying to be polite-be v intersting perhaps? I'm obviously a total innocent here- all I know is they approve the safety of the caravan ie set a certain standard=bit like the CE approval-or TUV-seems I may be wrong?

Regarding the certificates that the manufacturer issues on behalf, of the NCC, they only document fulfilment of certain industry standards, primarily with regard to habitation equipment. They do not certify fulfilment of road vehicle construction and use regulations as that is the job of the Vehicle Certification Agency as the official type approval authority. Type approval, on the other hand, does not get involved with things like flammability of upholstery, gas supply, electrical safety of habitation equipment, etc. because these are not relevant to road safety. It is unfortunate that the NCC seems to be poking its nose into road legalities as well instead of concentrating on things that are not covered by vehicle type approval. What is worse is that they convey an impression of having the authority of a legislative body.

 

[Darren.H]

Regarding the certificates that the manufacturer issues on behalf, of the NCC, they only document fulfilment of certain industry standards, primarily with regard to habitation equipment. They do not certify fulfilment of road vehicle construction and use regulations as that is the job of the Vehicle Certification Agency as the official type approval authority. Type approval, on the other hand, does not get involved with things like flammability of upholstery, gas supply, electrical safety of habitation equipment, etc. because these are not relevant to road safety. It is unfortunate that the NCC seems to be poking its nose into road legalities as well instead of concentrating on things that are not covered by vehicle type approval. What is worse is that they convey an impression of having the authority of a legislative body.

These posts should really be taken down, it would be interesting for Practical Caravans expert to comment.

UK legislation will refer to manufacturers restrictions placed upon.
The NCC act as register for the individual caravan and what the manufacturers restriction of use are, the law applies to this and therefore the NCC plate will be the information the authorities will use.

Again the process is very simple to understand,
Manufacturer gains type approval for the production model
Then places a restriction in use upon an individual caravan
NCC register this
We the user have to apply to have the restriction lifted on the individual caravan
NCC update register.

 

[RogerL]

These posts should really be taken down, it would be interesting for Practical Caravans expert to comment.

UK legislation will refer to manufacturers restrictions placed upon.
The NCC act as register for the individual caravan and what the manufacturers restriction of use are, the law applies to this and therefore the NCC plate will be the information the authorities will use.

Again the process is very simple to understand,
Manufacturer gains type approval for the production model
Then places a restriction in use upon an individual caravan
NCC register this
We the user have to apply to have the restriction lifted on the individual caravan
NCC update register.

The NCC has no place being involved in caravan registration or legal restrictions on their use - it's a trade body which solely represents the interests of the trade, primarily caravan dealers - it doesn't represent consumers in any way.

 

[Darren.H]

The NCC has no place being involved in caravan registration or legal restrictions on their use - it's a trade body which solely represents the interests of the trade, primarily caravan dealers - it doesn't represent consumers in any way.

That's part of what it does!
I'm just the messenger 😔

I think you misunderstood
They act as a register
Its the manufacturers that place the restrictions
The NCC hold the records for the members.

 

[Lutz]

That's part of what it does!
I'm just the messenger 😔

I think you misunderstood
They act as a register
Its the manufacturers that place the restrictions
The NCC hold the records for the members.

The NCC has no authority to act as a register and there is no reference in any legislation to any registration process with a third party such as the NCC. Only the manufacturer and the type approval authority, the VCA, have the obligation to document and they cannot delegate that responsibility to the NCC. If things were any different, it would be impossible for a manufacturer who is not a member of the NCC to market a caravan.

Legislation only has provisions for a statutory weight plate and that legislation specifies in detail what the plate must display. The NCC label by the door does not comply with the requirements unless combined with the statutory weight plate, which I believe a few caravan manufacturers are now doing (Elddis, for example).