What van??

[Dean_374573742]

Hi everyone,

My wife and I have finally saved enough money to look at getting a van, we have been tenting for the last ten years and look on the people tucked up in their cosy warm and 'dry' caravans with envy so it time for us to get one.

I have a SAAB estate max towing weight 1600kg

I don't have a clue about who is the best manufacturer and how heavy the van needs to be.

We have seen a couple of vans we like the look of

Sprite Alpine 4

Lunar Quasar 544

We have two children 10 and 13 and are looking for a fixed bed. Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Kindest Regards

Dean

 

[Mel]

Hi Dean. The other number to look for in your car handbook is the Kerbweight. It is recommended by the likes of the Caravan Club that the Maximum Permissable Towing Laden Mass (MPTLM) of your van (i.e. the weight of your van after you filled it with all your kit) is no more than 85% of the kerb weight of your car. Now I say this rather tentatively because there are HUGE debates on this forum about the evidence base and validity of this recommendation. However, when you are a newbie you need to start somewhere, and I found this number quite useful. Just remember that towing stability is down to a number of factors not just the 85% recommendation. There are beginners guides on This website and on the Caravan Clubs that are worth looking at.

On a seperate issue, when you go and choose a van take your children with you and get them to lie in the bunks/beds. Some bedroom arrangements suit little children really well but the bunks are tiny for teens.

Have fun choosing

mel

 

[Jimbob1]

Hi Dean,

We are Bailey fans and find that they are a great build and well planned out,go by your wife's gut feeling about the caravan,we husbands understand the mechanical side of the caravan but layout I believe women have a better insite.Do have a look at as many caravans as you can at the various dealers you'll find the right one and don't rush at it take your time and you'll find the right caravan that'll suit you and your family.

The very best of Luck .Jimbob

 

[trickydicky]

Hello Dean

Ive got a Sprite Alpine 4,which I think is brill but am not sure it would be Ok for you because of the arrangement of the beds.You get a fixed bed,which is fine but then the individual seats I think would not be long enough for two teenagers.The seats can be made into a double bed,which goes accross the van, so that you have two doubles.This is ok if the two teenagers want to sleep in the same double bed,but otherwise no good.

The MIRO ( mass in running order) of the alpine is a 1000kgs,so loaded up would be about 1100kgs,so there should be no problem pulling it with your Saab.I pull mine with a Skoda fabia 1.9 diesel,which has max towing weight of 1200kgs.

Hope this helps,cheers Richard

 

[forestgump]

have a sprite alpine 4 very good van but think you will find them miro1001 mtplm1230 the musketeer is about the same but not a fixed bed.

 

[Mark_374568422]

Hymers are the best vans out there - no contest.

If you cant stretch to a nice Hymer Nova try the Burstners Dethleffs or Adrias if your looking for something more lightweight.

Id avoid english vans like the plague they are poorly made and leak very badly the damp ingress guarantees are higher on German vans.

If moneys tight the Adrias are unbeatable.

I am a caravanner of 20 years and a trader. I also have a family friend who has been repairing them for 40 years his yard is full of 5 year old rotten english caravans. I stopped buying and trading in english vans due to their dreadful build quality.

 

[landypete]

thats not very nice

 

[Parksy]

There are some notes which cover the legalities of towing weights

Here Dean

The debate which centres around UK built caravans vs. German/ Continental models encompasses many facets.

Continental caravans often are of low specification and are very expensive with the current

 

[Mark_374568422]

Not strictly true Parksy.

Ocassionally German vans do not have ovens to be honest most people BBQ anyway other than that theres almost no difference. Doors on the wrong side - funny but my car drivers doors on the right and Ive never been ran over getting out of the car as I remember

We are back to British is best scaremongering yet again it reminds me of Britain before the invasion of Jap Cars in the 1970's we were all flying the flag as we changed the 5th engine on our Austin Allegro

Baileys have had to make some dramatic changes water ingress has been a severe problem for them for many years, ask anyone in the trade.

As for weight penalty with all due respect thats another fallacy theres rarely any difference . If you want a cheap light caravan go for an Adria vastly superior damp resistance than any British caravan and cheap too.

As for build quality I lose count of the amount of stories Ive heard regarding bits falling off and breaking on Baileys surely you cant even consider they are in the same league as Hymer or Knaus ? Give me a 2nd hand Hymer Nova with a 6 year damp ingress warranty anyday- oh and vastly superior insulation values

Sorry to say this but PC seems joined at the hip to Bailey and to British caravans in general. I often play spot the non British caravan/ article/advert although its a difficult game to play ! Imagine to Autocar magazine just comparing Fords and British cars you would never read it ! We live in a global economy and need comparisons across the world stage in caravanning

Can we please move away from the comparisons of colour schemes and dinette layouts on between Baileys and Lunars by Mr/Mrs average with their dog and 2.5 kids and concentrate on vans say 5 years old with some damp ingress tests ??

Caravanning journalism is 20 years behind the times and isnt hard hitting enough. Every British caravan is "nice" with a "nice" colour scheme. What I want is a global spread of caravans with some proper indepth knowledge and opinions of what these caravans will be like in 5 years. If we were all just seduced by looks in the car world we would all buy Alfa Romeos - car magazines will tell me that it will probably fall to bits in 5 years though so if I bought one Id know what to expect based on experience and the confidence that car journalists have to criticise where necessary !!

Sorry if this is a little opinionated but I guess this is what forums are all about !!

 

[DianneT]

What a load of rubbish that Foreign vans are better than British. We have had 8 vans over the years, all British, wonderfully built, loads of features and extras, never had a leak in any of them. Makes, Original Sprite 400, Lunar, Ace Awards, Avondale, Coachman and now Elddis. We like to have an oven and all the trimmings. Like cooking on holiday in the van and always do our washing up in there, unlike the other Europeans. Funny thing is when we arrive on site in our Elddis Crusader the Germans, Austrians and Dutch always want to look inside and think it is wonderful. Buy British for us and on todays market spend a little extra and buy an Elddis or Coachman.

 

[trucker]

What an utter load of dribble you are spouting, stop kicking all which is british or move to the continent where all is rosy in the garden

 

[Dustydog]

Mark

I've never heard such a load of bigoted diatribe. I've had Elddis, Swift and Bailey caravans none of which have leaked the way you say.

If they were that bad they wouldn't still be in business.

Well I'm flying the English flags on the cars and house so wack it to them England!

Cheers

Dustydog an English Springer spaniel

 

[Parksy]

Mark wrote:

'I am a caravanner of 20 years and a trader. I also have a family friend who has been repairing them for 40 years his yard is full of 5 year old rotten english caravans. I stopped buying and trading in english vans due to their dreadful build quality.'

Your statement which I've quoted goes a long way towards explaining why you constantly knock British built caravans in almost every comment that you submit to this forum Mark.

If you only trade in Continental or German built caravans your comments are unlikely to be full of praise for UK built caravans.

You also state that 'most people BBQ anyway'.

Does your confident assertion apply to British caravanners who do most of their touring here in the UK?

If your friends yard is 'full of 5 year old rotten English caravans then his work must consist almost exclusively of warranty work.

Yo are entitled to your opinion Mark but we can see why you are so biased against British built caravans, your statements have no real basis in fact and you have no real evidence to substantiate your claims.

 

[Mark_374568422]

I fail to understand what fixation we have with british vans - do you all own british cars ?

Over the last 2 years of trading Ive viewed around 200-300 caravans a mixture of both british and continental. 95% of British caravans I tested have damp many severe and even after 5 years. I have never found any damp in any of the continental caravans Ive tested. Call that luck if you like but with odds like that I might try the lottery later

At the end of the day we pays our money and takes our choices all I ask for is we open our mind to whats in the global market and look further afield then the British shores. Everyones entitled to their opinion and I apologise if I was a bit harsh it goes of experience which is far more comprehensive than many.

Yes the continentals like our vans sometimes I prefer the looks of the continental to the twee of the velour tassles and flowery curtains again thats just personal choice

As for still in business many of them arent Avondale, ABI many have gone out of business with damp proof claims in their wake.

If the caravan journalist werent obsessed with British vans we might start opening our eyes a little more. Until that time we will always stick with the old adage "better the devil you know"

And as for move to the continent I like it here thanks and is everything in your house British ???

 

[Mark_374568422]

As for the BBQ question the vast majority of german caravan do have ovens where else do you feel they are lacking may I ask ?

I can only go of experience (which is fairly extensive) and yes its not scientific but as I said in my previous comments lets see PC do some scientific damp tests on 5 year old caravans this way we will be far more informed on all models. Damp is a major issue along with build quality why is it we never see 2 hand vans tested the "bread and butter" of what most can afford. We are all entitled to go with what we fancy but at the minute that vital information is totally lacking from caravanning journalism.

Also any chance of some more critisism of whats out there ?

In the 1970's Chris Goffey broke the mould for car journalism and came out and said the car he was driving was rubbish. BBC were scared that that manufacturer wouldnt lend them cars for test driving again but they did and now we have hard hitting car journalism thats yet to happen with caravanning journalism.

I choose to sell continental caravans because I like people to be happy I do trade in English but its rare I come across a damp free example I wish it was different but its not the last one I looked at was a 2003 Elddis struggled to find a dry spot on it .

Hey we are all entitled to our opinion you all love British I love continental thats the way of the world I guess sorry if Ive offended anyone

 

[Mark_374568422]

One more point the last damp proof/build quality tests were done by the caravan club as I remember. As I recall 8 out of top 10 were continental thats probably the closest to scientific as we have recently .......

 

[ValA.]

Like Mark, I quite like continental vans, and we have thought about trading in our Swift for one. We've been to the Caravan Show in Holland, and often look around caravan showrooms in France. We like Adria, and were very tempted at the NEC a year or so ago. HOWEVER, we couldn't tow any of the vans we like with our Mondeo Estate - and our Swift is well within the capabilities of the car, so we stick with it.

It's also now ten years old, and problem free - no damp, no bits dropping off, all the hinges, catches, and equipment is still original (oh, except for one water pump which we replaced just because it was full of black slime and looked extremely unhealthy) and it would take a lightweight continental van to replace it. There just aren't any out there, though, which are light enough yet still have the same level of equipment and comfort - or certainly not that we can afford!

 

[Dustydog]

Mark

I've trawled the CC site and cannot find the technical data you quote.

However there is a table of "overall performance" giving ratings.

ALL the English made are well above 80% satisfaction but I grant you the Hymers are slightly higher.

Statistics bug me.

3 Hymer owners say they are fantastic. 100%

Of 1000 Swifts 950 say fantastic the balance disagree. Rating 95%.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Mark_374568422]

Ill hold my hands up vanmaster isnt a van I know very much but you want scientific I guess this is the closest until someone comes up with something better

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/practical-advice/thinking-of-buying/reliability-survey/caravan-survey

 

[Mark_374568422]

Glad you are enjoying your swift am a little surprised the Adria was heavier though !

Am amazed at the price of Adrias if Im truthful perhaps the furniture is a little Ikea but at that price and at that weight I think they are pretty unbeatable for those on a budget

 

[Parksy]

Unfortunately the Caravan Club survey from the link provided is five years old and although it contains favourable comments about Hymer caravans it also states that: 'Bailey was the best of the volume producers with just 5% of it's tourers having a problem' [with damp]

The survey was taken before British volume caravan manufacturers started to offer six year warranties against water ingress and having seen Alu tech construction methods and toured the Swift factory during production my contention is that although there may have been issues with British built caravans in the past there have now been addressed by and large. In terms of affordability, weight and equipment levels on 'standard' caravans modern British built tourers are easily able to compete with Continental caravans which is why the overwhelming majority of new caravan buyers in the UK buy British.

Why should we allow one of the few remaining successful manufacturing industries left here in Britain to disappear like other industries such as motorcycles, bicycles and cars?

 

[DianneT]

I agree with you Parksy we do not have a choice of British cars to buy in the UK now so virtually have to buy from abroad.

We are so lucky to have such a choice of British caravans with such luxury. Over here we have been to many caravan centres and looked at the European vans. Firstly the seating is not near as comfortable as the UK ones. Nearly all are colour Blue inside. Most have no Oven or Microwave and some no bathrooms at all. The reason being of course they caravan differently than us in the UK. They cook outside in awnings and under sun canopies, they never wash up in their vans but walk, sometimes a very long way, to wash up at the site facilities and always use the Showers and Toilets there. In the UK lots of caravanners stay at sites such as Caravan Club C.L's which, only sometimes, have any facilities at all. We only use the Showers and toilets if equal or better than ours in the caravan which in Germany and Austria always are or in Italy where they nearly always are. We always wash up in the caravan. Some Continental vans do not have hot water facilities in them as we do in ours. Any way you take your choice of Vans and I am all for the British Manufacturer and long may they reign.

Sorry for Dean, he only asked for advice on buying a caravan.

 

[Mark_374568422]

I am not suggesting for one minute that the British caravan industry disappears that would be nonsense. We pays our money and we takes our choice. If British is better or people perceive thats the case they will buy British. However we live in a global marketplace and journalists should be aware of that and models should be representative of that in the magazines. At the moment the magazines are almost entirely British related thats wrong without the full facts people cant make informed decisions, its also aimed squarley at the retired but thats another story ...

If Britain produces the best caravans then let it stand on its own 2 feet rather than our current "Vera Lynn" attitude. Parksy it sounds like you are admitting the magazine deliberatly wraps the British caravan industry in cotton wool to protect it. Global trade enhances quality and choice for everyone any economist will tell you that. Most of the British car industry fell by the wayside due to quality issues and strikes the buy British campaign didnt work in the 1970's because the quality just wasnt there.

We will all have different opinions thats life what I want to see in the magazines as I said before is some hard hitting journalism and 5 year damp tests and such statements as

xxx has has a good finish to the bodywork but experience has shown us after 5 years they leak badly

xxx looks the part but the trade says its impossible to get replacement parts

etc etc

As for comparisons please go and have a look in some continental caravans and please dont confuse them with "travellers vans" which may not have ovens or hot water this is rather a generalisation !

Im not asking for special treatment just for journalists and the public to open their eyes to whats out there

 

[Bannedtom]

"Id avoid english vans like the plague they are poorly made and leak very badly the damp ingress guarantees are higher on German vans.

If moneys tight the Adrias are unbeatable.

Quote"I am a caravanner of 20 years and a trader. I also have a family friend who has been repairing them for 40 years his yard is full of 5 year old rotten english caravans. I stopped buying and trading in english vans due to their dreadful build quality."Unquote

What a load of tosh. There are good and bad in all caravans not just british, we own a Fleetwood and beat that for a Hymer! I don't think so.

We owned a Dethleffs 550L from new a few years ago and what a load of c**p, on its first outing when we arrived at Brown Moor CCS the fire was laying face down on the floor and the base of the wardrobe had fallen through and that was just the start. So you are a dealer?? so you don't but Baileys, Lunar, Swift, Avondale ??

Granted Hymers are good but not the best and with a family of four you wont pull a 4 berth Hymer with a Saab estate.

My suggestion is if you are buying second hand do the rounds of the dealers and find out which layout suits you best then read the forums to get users opinions, there is a previous thread of some guy complaining about the build quality of the Baileys yet there is another thread of someone praising an identical van so make your own mind up, I dare say that there is someone who has a good quality well built Dethleffs (perhaps not!)

Its your choice but when you do buy if you can afford it then buy from a reputable dealer and nail them to the floor on price.

Good luck

 

[Mark_374568422]

Hymers are now