What van??

[Mark_374568422]

Quote from 2005 Caravan club survey

"Given the higher level of user satisfaction seen with imports, this has pushed up the overall ratings. This aspect should start alarm bells ringing at our domestic producers.

If foreign caravan manufacturers can come up with higher satisfaction ratings (all in the 90%-plus range) then the UK just has to match that or face the eventual draining away of its previously loyal customer base.

This is not alarmist talk; the sample numbers in all three surveys are significant and representative. So let

 

[Parksy]

First of all let me make it quite clear that I'm nothing to do with the Practical Caravan magazine other than as a normal everyday reader of it.

A few years ago German/ Continental caravans were often featured in magazine articles but with the poor exchange rate rendering non UK built caravans prohibitively expensive for many British buyers these caravans are not featured so often now. Many continental manufacturers no longer exhibit their products at exhibitions in the UK because of poor sales in the current economic climate for the same reason.

How many British built caravans feature in continental caravan magazines? Practical Caravan magazine is the UK's leading caravan magazine and as such it features products both new and used that it's readers want to buy and could realistically afford.

Do you actually read Practical Caravan magazine Mark?

I believe that at the moment Practical Caravan has a Dethleff's Campy which is German built on long term loan and recent articles have featured this caravan so accusations of a 'Vera Lynn' attitude by feature writers are completely innacurate. The Dethleffs Campy featured in the articles also rather negates the statement that the magazine articles are aimed 'at the retired'. Many of the live in tests conducted by the magazine features families with young children and the magazine editor to my mind recognises the rapid growth in caravan sales to young families who are fed up with being treated like cattle at airports on annual holidays.

I also refute suggestions that British built caravans these days have 'chintzy' furniture and patterned curtains with tassels!

I can understand why you have this idea Mark, if your business involves inspecting used caravans with a view to purchase examples of five years old or over might seem outdated in terms of style and there could be signs of water ingress present in older British caravans.

A buyer such as Dean needs to be wary and to check thoroughly for signs of damp in any used caravan and if the d

 

[Mark_374568422]

Apologies to Parksy I thought you had a business interest with PC. I do read PC and yes occasionally it has continental vans in but its a rarity.

I think the journalism is changing towards the younger generation but its a very slow process. Adverts for vitamin pills, stannah stairlifts, lighweight vacuum cleaners, cures for backache, hushpuppy shoes and slacks in 3 colours of khaki (and how to make a medicine container out of a margarine tub sprayed silver one of the Readers top tips and my favourite ever!!) still seem to litter the pages which doesnt help and will put off anyone under 40 straight away. Im all for caravanning for the younger generation I wish it could shake off that stigma it still has. As a friend of mine once said oh no your not talking about the "c" word again !

I fully agree in relation to the exchange rate many years ago it was the other way round and it has made some continental vans expensive but most of us don't buy new. Years ago PC as I remember used to do a "2nd hand section" that would be very useful .

Dean should check whatever he buys carefully. Open every cupboard and get in every corner with the damp meter. Treat every caravan on its own merits regardless of wherever it was made.

 

[Mark_374568422]

Perhaps I should elaborate on what I have just said Re retired

I am talking more here about the Caravan club magazine as opposed to PC average readership age must be 60 plus.

Although them slacks are looking tempting ;-)

 

[Parksy]

No apology necessary Mark, forum moderators are appointed by Haymarket Publishing but not employed by them.

The only interest that I need to declare is the receipt of a complimentary subscription to the Practical Caravan magazine which all mods receive as a reward for our voluntary services on the forum :0)

I can't say that I've noticed any adverts for vitamin pills or Stannah stairlifts etc, all magazines rely on advertising revenue but Practical Caravan's target audience seems to me as a complete outsider to be 30+ which is reflected in the adverts for family caravan parks etc.

Practical Caravan magazine features a regular article called the 'Used Caravan Guide' which in recent months has featured Avondale Darts, Swift Charisma's from under 5k,a general article about used tourers for less than 3k and used Bailey Rangers from under 4k so perhaps you might have a point about used continental caravans not being featured very often. If editorial staff read this they might decide to rectify this omission but if continental caravans are as good as you say Mark perhaps owners are so reluctant to part with them that used models rarely feature on dealers forecourts.

I've enjoyed debating the comparisons between British built and continental caravans Mark and I've welcomed the opportunity to state that UK manufacturers for the most part have finally woken up and smelled the coffee in terms of build quality and interior styling.

There will always be exceptions which can readily be seen by browsing caravan forums but I'd like to think that increased internet usage by caravan buyers is forcing standards of build by manufacturers and customer service by dealers slowly but surely upwards.

 

[Mark_374568422]

"Id avoid english vans like the plague they are poorly made and leak very badly the damp ingress guarantees are higher on German vans.

If moneys tight the Adrias are unbeatable.

Quote"I am a caravanner of 20 years and a trader. I also have a family friend who has been repairing them for 40 years his yard is full of 5 year old rotten english caravans. I stopped buying and trading in english vans due to their dreadful build quality."Unquote

What a load of tosh. There are good and bad in all caravans not just british, we own a Fleetwood and beat that for a Hymer! I don't think so.

We owned a Dethleffs 550L from new a few years ago and what a load of c**p, on its first outing when we arrived at Brown Moor CCS the fire was laying face down on the floor and the base of the wardrobe had fallen through and that was just the start. So you are a dealer?? so you don't but Baileys, Lunar, Swift, Avondale ??

Granted Hymers are good but not the best and with a family of four you wont pull a 4 berth Hymer with a Saab estate.

My suggestion is if you are buying second hand do the rounds of the dealers and find out which layout suits you best then read the forums to get users opinions, there is a previous thread of some guy complaining about the build quality of the Baileys yet there is another thread of someone praising an identical van so make your own mind up, I dare say that there is someone who has a good quality well built Dethleffs (perhaps not!)

Its your choice but when you do buy if you can afford it then buy from a reputable dealer and nail them to the floor on price.

Good luck

Fleetwood went into administration in 2009 and are now owned by Adria so you may be buying a continental caravan without knowing it rather ironic !!

Avondale have also now gone bust leaving a lot of unhappy caravanners with worthless guarantees

 

[xtrailman]

Well i'm looking for a new caravan, but apart from the lunar clubman, and eldiss (range i can't remember)as yet i haven't found one that shouts buy me NOW.

So i still looking, no rush, this year or next will do.

Why? well my 2006 dry (mark take note)senator vermont still looks like new, age only apparent with such things as the awning light discolouring, and a light lens cracking.

My biggest bug bear his the crap found inside the caravan, the same rubbish found in the foreign caravans.

I would happily buy a van with out a oven, never use it, a microwave grill would do for me.

Having looked at the latest hymer, i have to say, not impressed, the 2004 version was better, today i don't see

 

[PetePajero]

On the subject of build quality, I have a Lunar (1991) that was built usung steel screws on the rails, and I had to replace them with stainless steel screws.

Now I read that Coachman still use steel screws.

I cant beleive any manufacturer still does this.

Can anyone clarify this please.Is it true?

I am thinking of buying a Coachman and the steel screws issue will not deter me, although its a bind having to change the screws, but it is a vital modification.

Thanks

 

[Mark_374568422]

We can all come up with individual vans we love that buck the trend I had an ABI Marauder 1991 that had been used 4 times in 15 years loved it to bits but it was a one off. Not sure what you mean by crap in the caravan.

Theres a few end bathroom Hymers around Im sure they are others too if you look hard enough.

Ive no issue with stirring up a hornets nest thats what healthy discussions all about at the end of the day Ill put my 2 penneth in like the rest of you.....

 

[JulieandStuart]

Hymers are ugly - nuff said!!

 

[Bannedtom]

Oh for goodness sake Julia don't sit on the fence and stop waffling just say what you think!

 

[Mark_374568422]

Think you need to go to specsavers we think ours is lush although I once owned an Alfa 166 which some said looked like the rear of a hippo so what do I know

 

[Martin24]

On the subject of build quality, I have a Lunar (1991) that was built usung steel screws on the rails, and I had to replace them with stainless steel screws.

Now I read that Coachman still use steel screws.

I cant beleive any manufacturer still does this.

Can anyone clarify this please.Is it true?

I am thinking of buying a Coachman and the steel screws issue will not deter me, although its a bind having to change the screws, but it is a vital modification.

Thanks

ring the factory and ask them! Very happy with my new 640/6 and was very happy with the previous 560/6 from 2007

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all

just read through the whole topic and one thing is clear the vans we use are down to personal choice and circumstances ours is no different, you set your own criteria look at hundreds of different vans and then buy one thats a compromise because our ideal van does not exist be it continental or british, just the nearest we can get to it.

after changing from a motor home to a tourer we must have looked at a 1000 vans of all makes from every dealer within 100miles from home eventually buying the bailey from a local dealer that had been using it as a demostrator not ideal but it was the right size "it had to fit into the garage built to house the m/home ie less than 5m/40cm shipped length" the right weight less than 1100kg MTPLM because I had no intention of changing the car to tow it with. and have all the equipment we felt suited our needs. and was the right price with all the freebies. 5 years on it still looks brand new, nothing has fallen of or broken (despite being used as a demonstrator) and is bone dry. since retiring we use it for about 12 weeks a year doing about 3000miles in the process and love it to bits, ok a end washroom would be nice so would a seperate dinnette and bigger fridge with freezer but there you go compromise.

I would also like to add at the time we bought it we could have had a brand new adria similar weight and size but the furnature that was "as someone allready said came from ikea" had vinyl floors, no oven, few windows, and a fixed bed that took up half the interior space of the van + it had one corner cut off the btm of the bed so unless you or your partner was vetically challanged it was not long enough to sleep on.

colin

 

[MJC]

Hymers are ugly - nuff said. Ok you can think that.Some people say Airstreams are ugly - Ok you can think that too. I have had 2 Hymers. 2 English Vans. Elldis, brand new - leaked, back at dealers EVERY time we went out. Stuff dropped off. Damp. Hymers - nothing at all has gone wrong. We have taken them abroad/main holidays/2 kids/2 dogs/lots of weekend use. I know of a Hymer bod who decided to buy a Bailey - why I asked - because I can throw it away after a couple of years and get a new one. After all they don't last much longer. he said.

A Hymer is an investable caravan.I pay more for it and expect it to last. An English caravan is very much cheaper and see how many old ones are still PERFECT. No-one knows that my Hymer is 4 years old - they don't need to change the decals EVERY year and I don't need to keep up with the NEW DESIGNS. It goes without saying the quality is better. Just get a kid in the van to open a few cupboards and see how hardy they are. Cheap wood/better wood. It's horses for courses but you do get quality in any foreign van - see how well they keep their second hand value. - Eribas are like hens teeth and very expensive. Depends what you want it for, how long you want it, how much hammer you are going to give it. I would love an Airstream. Fantastically made and before people start slagging them off - how many of you have been to the factory where they make them on Jction 38 and seen the (German) furniture (Ho Ho) that they put in and the individual specifications. Just look at lots and lots - it will never be perfect!!

 

[Moonstone1]

To get back ON TOPIC and back to Dean the OP's post.

Although it's difficult to choose the best manufacturer, only you can choose what you eventually like.

My comments are to ask why you want a fixed bed. What happens if your kids want to go to bed, they will end up in your lounge area and you will then have to go to bed too as there will be nowhere to sit. Agree that some bed/bunks designed for children do not 'fit' teenagers. I have two boys who are very tall although quite light! The 15 year old can still fit on the bunk, but rarely does, preferring to sleep outside in the awning - even in Winter. The 17 year old if he comes usually sleeps outside as well, or if necessary sleeps on the floor between kitchen and side dinette.

Our preferred family layout is the side dinette, end bathroom as there is plenty of room in the bathroom for privacy when dressing etc, room for showering if used but still giving plenty of space for living in the side dinette/lounge area.

A good kitchen worktop is essential, as is a good sized pan cupboard. Plenty of space for utensils, food and storage. I would also go for a large fridge if possible. Good shelving in the wardrobe area is a must.

In case you're wondering we have a Sterling Eccles Moonstone at the moment, but have had a Fleetwood Countryside 500EK and an Avondale Osprey (fantastic kitchen) and an Avondale Perle Orion. All these vans were dry and reliable and didn't have faults. I would have had another Osprey as I really liked it but couldn't find one of the right age/price at the time of changing.

Good luck in your searching and I too believe in 'gut' feeling.

 

[Alan_374579452]

To get back ON TOPIC and back to Dean the OP's post.

Although it's difficult to choose the best manufacturer, only you can choose what you eventually like.

My comments are to ask why you want a fixed bed. What happens if your kids want to go to bed, they will end up in your lounge area and you will then have to go to bed too as there will be nowhere to sit. Agree that some bed/bunks designed for children do not 'fit' teenagers. I have two boys who are very tall although quite light! The 15 year old can still fit on the bunk, but rarely does, preferring to sleep outside in the awning - even in Winter. The 17 year old if he comes usually sleeps outside as well, or if necessary sleeps on the floor between kitchen and side dinette.

Our preferred family layout is the side dinette, end bathroom as there is plenty of room in the bathroom for privacy when dressing etc, room for showering if used but still giving plenty of space for living in the side dinette/lounge area.

A good kitchen worktop is essential, as is a good sized pan cupboard. Plenty of space for utensils, food and storage. I would also go for a large fridge if possible. Good shelving in the wardrobe area is a must.

In case you're wondering we have a Sterling Eccles Moonstone at the moment, but have had a Fleetwood Countryside 500EK and an Avondale Osprey (fantastic kitchen) and an Avondale Perle Orion. All these vans were dry and reliable and didn't have faults. I would have had another Osprey as I really liked it but couldn't find one of the right age/price at the time of changing.

Good luck in your searching and I too believe in 'gut' feeling.

I am looking at either a Swift Conqueror 630 or a Bailey Wyoming purchase. Is there any Significant difference in build quality between the two brands, especially as it relates to water ingress? Which is the better bet?

 

[Alan_374579452]

I am looking at purchasing a new large van, either a Swift Conqueror or Bailey Wyoming. Which of the two manufacturers has the better build quality? Especially as it relates to water ingress. I have looked at the Caravan Channel factory visits to both Swift and Bailey and there does not appear to be a significant difference in the way they are build and materials used. Interested in opinions though, especially if you have owned vans from both manufacturers. Otherwise I think a second hand Vanmaster may be a safer bet, with their lifetime water ingress guarantee.