wheel came off new caravan

[ValA.]

Just to further the 'tow hitch bolts' argument a bit, we had a bolt fail in our tow hitch. OH was fixing the hitchlock when we'd just got home from France, and it wouldn't go on. The head of the bolt was out of position, and when he pulled it he found it had failed right in the unseen portion inside the hitch. Both halves were still in the hitch but had moved positon. The two halves had obviously been 'wearing' differently as there were 'rub marks' on both halves and a fracture line between. We got new bolts and replaced them, and the second bolt also showed signs of wear but no fracture.

It's not an area we would normally check - certainly not undoing the bolts to have a look at the condition - but it's now something which has been added to our 'security' checks before we set off.

 

[xtrailman]

please understand, i am not saying my way is the "best" way.

what i was attempting to say was, i have not lost a wheel,and i do NOT use a torque wrench, there go, not using a torque wrench does not mean your wheel will come off.

The consensus that NOT using a torque wrench equates to imminent deserter is untrue.

You need to remember, back in the day, torque wrenches were expensive, not so today, so it makes sense to have one, as i do.

The entire debate, has been focused, i thought, on establishing common circumstances that have led to the wheel coming of?

 

[SBS]

Last week, I was talking to the manufacturer of wheel nut indicators for LGVs etc. He told me that some hauliers re-torque the wheelnuts up to 4 times after removing a wheel and use red indicators to signify that it needs checking. After the final check, the yellow indicators are fitted.

It seems to me, that fitting indicators for alloy wheels would give an early warning of a wheelbolt coming loose but the re-check after 30 miles (or whatever the manufacturer recommends) should still be carried out.

Mike

 

[seth1]

Kenneth,further to your post,i dont feel ive been sidetracked.Ive merely put a postive post as to what you refere as irrelavant ramblings.

The worrying factor is maybe a novice reading some of this might see it as satisfactory which i dont.

 

[hublock]

Hello Seth,

Sorry but I was agreeing with your point of view, so I suppose I should have made that clearer. The "irrelevant ramblings" I referred to were not yours or related to any of your postings.

I am convinced the problem with "wheels coming off" is a failure to follow recommended procedures, and I have given several links with information that supports this.

John who made the original posting seems to be long gone, so I think it's time for me to follow.

After all, why let mere facts spoil a good argument.

 

[Gafferbill]

Kenneth... I agree with you.

The problem with "wheels coming off" is a failure to follow recommended procedures!

I would add one further reason that should not be underestimated..interference with the wheels!

I have experienced the following on various vehicles: -

Urinating in the fuel tank.

Nail hammered through and left in a trailer tyre sidewall.

Air let out of tyres on numerous occasions.

Nail gun staples fired into tread pattern of tyre.

All of the tyre valve caps stolen from a 12-wheeled vehicle.

A six-inch nail wedged between the road and a tyre so that it would puncture the tyre of a parked vehicle when it moved off.

Light lenses from a trailer stolen.

Fuel stolen and fuel tank damaged.

There are some weird people about .. meaning you cannot carry out too many vehicle checks!

 

[John_374408534]

Totally agree RAY,it is your business and not everybody elses thats why i choose to type it,so why tell people how you choose to secure your own.

Why not answer any of my questions,why put the doubt in peoples mind regarding specific torque values having no input,surely putting a torque wrench on a fastner is a safer bet than "that will do"

Yes we are trying to establish the answer to lost wheel syndrome as did certain organisations in past years,with far more resources and experiance than most of us.

The answer seemed to sway towards good preparation on mating sufaces,the use of a torque device,clean lubed threads,and regular sevicing.

If your refering to angle torque,it is seen as a better value and more accurate.

It is not good advice to lubricate the threads. If you were to read the manufacturers information for torque wrenches and from the Caravan Club for that matter, you would find that is dangerous practise. The quoted torque value is for dry threads only.

 

[gary]

Early warning wheel nut indicators are now available to fit alloy wheels:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CARAVAN-M-HOME-WHEEL-FALLING-OFF-WHEEL-NUT-INDICATORS_W0QQitemZ230417929839QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories?hash=item35a5fa966f#ht_956wt_907

 

[Sproket]

Gary

The bolts heads for my alloy wheels are 17mm I have just been into my van to check the socket on my torque wrench.

Now the 5 spare ones for the steel spare wheel are 19mm.

The listing on E-bay say's

" 10 x 19mm wheel bolt indicators, in bright yellow, to give an early warning of a wheelbolt coming loose "

which are the correct bolts, I never gave it a thought that the bolt heads would be a different size..

Do different manufactures use different bolts ..?

Sproket.

 

[gary]

I don't know mate, 19mm is common, 17mm? strange!

 

[Sproket]

The van is a Hymer , now I know there is a difference between the bolts for steel & alloy wheels due to the conical face, it's a AL-KO chassis I just thought they would be the same size ..?

Hmm got me wondering... still they love being different ..

 

[gary]

I few years ago when I was involved more with engineering generally, there was very strong talk of dropping standard head size across the range of bolts, 12mm bolts with 19mm heads was to drop one common spanner size down to 17mm, a size you would expect on 10mm bolts.

Since then in the UK I've not come across any evidence of it but it might be it's happened more across the channel?

Maybe that would explain it?

Congrats BTW on your New Year Honour? well deserved

 

[Damian]

I have recently carried out a service on two Hymer vans, both had 17mmm wheel bolts fitted.

It seems Hymer prefer the 17's , maybe as Sproket says, just to be different from the rest.

 

[Sproket]

I wonder if it was to stop them getting mixed up.. ?

Now could this have something to do with wheels falling off . ??

Wrong bolt holding alloy wheel on ..?

Taken from my Hymer hand book :

" When converting to different rims (e.g. light metal rims or wheels with winter tyres ), the relevant wheel screws of the correct length and dome shaped must be used. The solid positioning of the wheel and the functioning of the braking system depends on this "

Sproket.

 

[Lutz]

Sproket, if the problem is primarily one concerning alloy wheels, that has been my suspicion all along. It is very easy to overlook whether the chamfer on the bolt is identical to that on the wheel or not.

 

[Sproket]

Will the bolts for steel wheels be shorter ..?

 

[Sproket]

Just found these:

Three 12mm wheel bolts all different lengths

12mm bolt x 28mm long thread

12mm bolt x 25mm long

12mm bolt x 24mm long

Sproket.

 

[xtrailman]

sproket

my bailey 2004, uses the same bolts for the steel spare, and alloys.

I confirmed this with bailey shortly after buying the van.

 

[Lutz]

... but it must depend on what alloys. Presumably Bailey are referring only to the alloys that they fit ex works.

 

[xtrailman]

One would assume so, i don't find a problem with using the same bolts?

 

[Lutz]

As I said, it's easy to overlook whether the chamfer angles are the same between the bolts and the wheels, so you can only be sure if they are both matched.

 

[gary]

The angle of the taper is the same for both alloy and steel wheels, they start at the narrow end the same diameter, the steel one is very short but the alloy cones are longer and therefore much broader under the nut, this gives a far greater surface area to spread the load on the softer alloy wheel.

Also due to the depth of the alloys cone, the bolt/stud will be longer overall.

When using alloy wheel nuts on steel wheels, only the tip of the taper is employed, the tip being the same as steel, the rest of the taper is then redundant and left protruding.

For the same reason never use steel wheel nuts/bolts on alloy wheels as their cones are much shorter, will certainly work loose very quickly and damage the wheels taper in the process

 

[Sproket]

Gary

Just curious why the bolts are listed as:

Wheel bolts (M12 conical) means:

(conical - relating to or resembling a cone )

Wheel bolts (M12 spherical) means:

( spherical - having the shape of a sphere or ball )

Ray,

Both wheels must have the same machined seat to the correct angle for this to work ..?

From what I can see the bolts for steel wheels are 3mm shorter & a different shape

.....????

Sproket.

 

[ShadySadie]

Spherical bolts fit to steel wheels as they had a sperical seating in the past.

Conical fit to Alloys as in most cases they have a conical 60 degree seating, some cars do have Alloys with flat seatings.

Swift use the same multi purpose fixed length 10/9 tensile bolts for alloys and steel wheels rather than lower tensile strength for steel wheels.

How many times does anyone change their wheel bolts? I've always had the same bolts and guess that manufacturers supply the correct bolts.

Locking bolts are clearly sold as being for alloy or steel wheels.

All pretty pointless chat really, just do them up the right way.

 

[xtrailman]

I don't think its point less, my xtrail has 4 alloys, with locking wheel nuts, again the same nuts are used for the steel spare.

But now i wonder, should i use the locking nut with the steel spare?

sproket

i know nothing above the technical side of wheel nuts, after i purchase my 2004 bailey, i asked the question regarding the wheel nuts, only because i recall, some cars or caravans had a different set for the steel spare.

I suspect bailey have gone the same route as swift?