I have just been reading again through the replies to my previous posting"Help, I bought a Vectra". Most replies are encouraging but the problem of wheel spin keeps coming up. This will be my first front wheel drive tow car and I wondered if they all suffer from this problem or is it just the Vectra. We were originally considering a Mondeo or a Passat, are they any better?
Wheel spin with front wheel drive
- Thread starter JandP
- Start date
The problem of wheel spin boils down to the percentage weight distribution on the front wheels and, just as important, the make of tyre.
Of course, a front wheel drive car inherently suffers from a certain shortcoming in this respect but there are ways of avoiding problems, especially when manoeuvring on a slippery surface:
1. Gentle use of clutch and accelerator (the obvious)
2. Make use of any momentum you've got, i.e. once you've got going, keep your speed and don't stop (requires a bit of extra foresight to assess the conditions ahead).
3. If you need to move off on a surface which offers limited traction, place the car and caravan at right angles and not in a straight line.
By observing these rules I was able to tow with a Vectra for years without a problem. Only on one occasion did I need any outside assistance and that was when I tried to get up a steep wet ramp on to a ferry in Norway while at the same time towing a caravan right on the weight limit. But even then we made it by having two people sit on the bonnet until we got started.
Of course, a front wheel drive car inherently suffers from a certain shortcoming in this respect but there are ways of avoiding problems, especially when manoeuvring on a slippery surface:
1. Gentle use of clutch and accelerator (the obvious)
2. Make use of any momentum you've got, i.e. once you've got going, keep your speed and don't stop (requires a bit of extra foresight to assess the conditions ahead).
3. If you need to move off on a surface which offers limited traction, place the car and caravan at right angles and not in a straight line.
By observing these rules I was able to tow with a Vectra for years without a problem. Only on one occasion did I need any outside assistance and that was when I tried to get up a steep wet ramp on to a ferry in Norway while at the same time towing a caravan right on the weight limit. But even then we made it by having two people sit on the bonnet until we got started.
Hi Jim
I have posted elsewhere on the problems I had with a Front wheel Drive car when towing - not a caravan but a horse box. In the end I had to admit that it was a bad combination and went 4x4 and never had a problem since. However as Lutz said - tyres and driving skill will get you out of most difficulties. But having seen such cars struggling on the wet grass of a campsite - I am sure you will have some "fun" at some time in the future.
Sadly RWD cars are rare with the obvious exception of BMW's.
My bit of advice in addition to Lutz's would be to plan your route VERY well. Having seen the damage to a caravan when it had rolled back into trees on "Zig Zag" hill in Dorset because on wet leaves the Mondeo towing it just stopped going forward and slid backwards - you have to wonder at what on earth the driver was thinking about even trying to get up what is a very aptly named hill.
I think the AA & RAC can give you a list of steep gradient hills for whatever region you wish to tour in.
ALSO - there is a very funny video clip posted on here a while ago that shows a Renault 5 being pulled backwards by a caravan - admittedly the combination is a remarkably stupid one but it does indicate the limitations of Front Wheel Drive!!
I will try and find it and post it again. I am laughing now just thinking about what is on the clip!!
I have posted elsewhere on the problems I had with a Front wheel Drive car when towing - not a caravan but a horse box. In the end I had to admit that it was a bad combination and went 4x4 and never had a problem since. However as Lutz said - tyres and driving skill will get you out of most difficulties. But having seen such cars struggling on the wet grass of a campsite - I am sure you will have some "fun" at some time in the future.
Sadly RWD cars are rare with the obvious exception of BMW's.
My bit of advice in addition to Lutz's would be to plan your route VERY well. Having seen the damage to a caravan when it had rolled back into trees on "Zig Zag" hill in Dorset because on wet leaves the Mondeo towing it just stopped going forward and slid backwards - you have to wonder at what on earth the driver was thinking about even trying to get up what is a very aptly named hill.
I think the AA & RAC can give you a list of steep gradient hills for whatever region you wish to tour in.
ALSO - there is a very funny video clip posted on here a while ago that shows a Renault 5 being pulled backwards by a caravan - admittedly the combination is a remarkably stupid one but it does indicate the limitations of Front Wheel Drive!!
I will try and find it and post it again. I am laughing now just thinking about what is on the clip!!
Hi Jim, Further to the advice already given, I found that when I had a front wheel drive Xantia that I could get out of some wheel spin problems in reverse.
A number of times I was stuck on wet grass on CL's and found that I had a lot more traction when in reverse, so that became my standard get out in poor conditions - mind you it didnt work all the time, thats why I now have a 4 X 4
A number of times I was stuck on wet grass on CL's and found that I had a lot more traction when in reverse, so that became my standard get out in poor conditions - mind you it didnt work all the time, thats why I now have a 4 X 4
Well there you have it Jim - various people giving very good advice on how to get a front wheel drive car to tow in slippery conditions to which I would add one more and that is to go back before going forward if you have been parked on a wet field for more than an hour - this pushes the van wheels out of the depression they will always make and alows momentum when going forward again.
But don't despair too much - thousands of vanners tow with front drive and never get a problem. I would say that if you stick to summer use only, stay on the blacktop, avoid sloping fields and don't use sports tyres you will get by.
Caravanners are a friendly lot and if you do get stuck there will always be someone with a nice big 4x4 to extract you - don't fancy Lutz's situation with the bonnet bouncers too much though!
But don't despair too much - thousands of vanners tow with front drive and never get a problem. I would say that if you stick to summer use only, stay on the blacktop, avoid sloping fields and don't use sports tyres you will get by.
Caravanners are a friendly lot and if you do get stuck there will always be someone with a nice big 4x4 to extract you - don't fancy Lutz's situation with the bonnet bouncers too much though!
I didn't fancy the idea of someone sitting on the bonnet either but it was all I could do under the circumstances if I didn't want to miss the ferry.
As you say, David W, lots of good advice, including your tip about going back before you go forward, but I am not sure that your summary is very reasuring. Our favourite site is a steep grassy hill in Dorset with the vans all required to park at the bottom so the only way out is up. It is a "Small Holding" and the only "blacktop" is the bit outside the owners bungalow. We like to go after the school holidays and we are usually the only ones there and in the autumn the grass is nice and green...!
Jim,
Thats just the sort of site we like too but it would be beyond the Vectra at the load you want to go to I think and anyway you wouldn't relax if you were forever worried about getting out of the place.
I even toyed with the idea of a portable winch to attach to the tow hook so I could "recover" the van in similar situations - didn't persue it though and ended up using my Trooper as a regular towcar with the Vectra relegated to family runabout and towing light trailers only.(wouldn't get rid as it is dual fuel and so cheap to run)
You could try some heavy duty all terrain tyres on the front to see if that worked I suppose but the steering would be less crisp and it would be noisy. Or you could do what I do and run an old off roader as a second car just for towing - only third party insurance and no tax in the winter so it's not that expensive - tow as big a van as you want with no worries and go anywhere. Doesn't mind a muddy dog or two either.
Thats just the sort of site we like too but it would be beyond the Vectra at the load you want to go to I think and anyway you wouldn't relax if you were forever worried about getting out of the place.
I even toyed with the idea of a portable winch to attach to the tow hook so I could "recover" the van in similar situations - didn't persue it though and ended up using my Trooper as a regular towcar with the Vectra relegated to family runabout and towing light trailers only.(wouldn't get rid as it is dual fuel and so cheap to run)
You could try some heavy duty all terrain tyres on the front to see if that worked I suppose but the steering would be less crisp and it would be noisy. Or you could do what I do and run an old off roader as a second car just for towing - only third party insurance and no tax in the winter so it's not that expensive - tow as big a van as you want with no worries and go anywhere. Doesn't mind a muddy dog or two either.
Is there any gadget or accessory available that might help? I remember the snow chains that were very popular years ago before the roads were gritted like they are now. I dont think they would be suitable with low profile tyres and alloy wheels but is there any modern version that you could keep in the boot just for the one time when you got stuck?
Snow chains of an appropriate design are just as suitable on low profile tyres and alloy wheels. In fact, they are a legal requirement in winter on some mountain passes in the Alps. However, whether snow chains work very well on muddy terrain, is questionable.
As a relatively cheap precaution, I would suggest a keeping a longish recovery rope in the back of the car. If you got into the mess you're in with the caravan you're reasonably likely to be able to get out without it. So, leave the caravan where it is and move the car first. Once the car has reached firmer ground, you can connect car and caravan from a distance with the recovery rope and pull the caravan out of its spot, too.
As a relatively cheap precaution, I would suggest a keeping a longish recovery rope in the back of the car. If you got into the mess you're in with the caravan you're reasonably likely to be able to get out without it. So, leave the caravan where it is and move the car first. Once the car has reached firmer ground, you can connect car and caravan from a distance with the recovery rope and pull the caravan out of its spot, too.
Jim - the problem will be the damage to the field if you use a 2WD vehicle with aggresive tyres or whatever. May not be a good idea if you want to go to that site again.
I hesitate to say this as it means this thread will possibly get the "Anti" treatment - but having seen how a 4x4 in low range just crept up a muddy paddock towing an enormous load on tickover without any damage or problem whatsoever converted me for life.
(And don't worry! you do not become an appostle of the Antichrist for having a 4x4!!!)
I hesitate to say this as it means this thread will possibly get the "Anti" treatment - but having seen how a 4x4 in low range just crept up a muddy paddock towing an enormous load on tickover without any damage or problem whatsoever converted me for life.
(And don't worry! you do not become an appostle of the Antichrist for having a 4x4!!!)
I think everybody is aware of the advantage of a 4x4 under those conditions, Clive, but the question specifically referred to suggestions for getting front wheel drive vehicles out of a soft spot. Not everybody is inclined to buy a 4x4 just to cover an isolated incident where a front wheel drive car has capitulated.
Your right of course and I chuff up the farm track with no drama or upset every time I take my van out - 2 or 3 times a month - been gently trying to convert Jim without drawing attention or as John Cleese said "don't talk about the war - I did but I don't think anybody heard"
Hi Lutz
Two points -
1)Using aggressive tyres or "snow chains" on mud is not going to help at all - all it will do is rip up the turf causing enormous damage to the field. Site owners and Farmers are not best pleased when people do this
2) Using a "recovery rope" has ENORMOUS HEALTH & SAFETY implications. In untrained hands these things can cause far more problems than getting a competent vehicle to simply pull you out.
As an experienced "off-roader" I know that to use a recovery rope is something that requires training. If it fails for any reason, and the car and/or caravan being "recovered" runs out of control and injures someone or causes damage the repercussions are truly dire.
My advice to all reading this thread is NOT to use such methods unless it is advocated by the site owner and it is their equipment that is being used.
I can just see the insurance companies having a field day with who is to blame for any accident! And if someone was injured whoever gets the blame would not be covered unless they could demonstrate that they knew what they were doing and had undergone the required training.
In such a case that individual from a financial viewpoint may as well bend over and kiss their backside goodbye.
Finally - it was "the other clive" and David W who first mentioned 4x4's. I tried not to because our anti friends follow me around trying to be clever.
Two points -
1)Using aggressive tyres or "snow chains" on mud is not going to help at all - all it will do is rip up the turf causing enormous damage to the field. Site owners and Farmers are not best pleased when people do this
2) Using a "recovery rope" has ENORMOUS HEALTH & SAFETY implications. In untrained hands these things can cause far more problems than getting a competent vehicle to simply pull you out.
As an experienced "off-roader" I know that to use a recovery rope is something that requires training. If it fails for any reason, and the car and/or caravan being "recovered" runs out of control and injures someone or causes damage the repercussions are truly dire.
My advice to all reading this thread is NOT to use such methods unless it is advocated by the site owner and it is their equipment that is being used.
I can just see the insurance companies having a field day with who is to blame for any accident! And if someone was injured whoever gets the blame would not be covered unless they could demonstrate that they knew what they were doing and had undergone the required training.
In such a case that individual from a financial viewpoint may as well bend over and kiss their backside goodbye.
Finally - it was "the other clive" and David W who first mentioned 4x4's. I tried not to because our anti friends follow me around trying to be clever.
Hi David - My wife says I am about as subtle as an air raid.
I know if I took a leaf out of your book I would have an easier life but what the heck!
Yes you are right Lutz, the question was specifically about front wheel drive cars in general and their comparison to the Vectra. I am sure the comments by David and Clive are intended to be helpful but, I'm sorry, I hate 4x4's (just a personal opinion!) and would rather buy a tent. I have always chosen a caravan to suit the car not the other way around because the van may be used 6 or 7 times a year and the car is used every day. (also one of the main arguments against motorhomes). We have bought the Vectra now and it looks like it will be perfect for us in every other way so, as they say these days, we are "just gonna wing it" and see how it goes. If it comes to the worst I think the site owner has a tractor!
Clive is correct about the health and safety implications if using a rope.
If the rope where to break and cause an accident one of the questions the insurance company would ask is, was it an approved and certified rope?
If not the next question would be, what was its SWL (Safe Working Load) ? and when was it last tested?
Where the correct anchor points used? believe me I have been involved in accident investigation involving lifting and slinging and it's a mine field.
If the rope where to break and cause an accident one of the questions the insurance company would ask is, was it an approved and certified rope?
If not the next question would be, what was its SWL (Safe Working Load) ? and when was it last tested?
Where the correct anchor points used? believe me I have been involved in accident investigation involving lifting and slinging and it's a mine field.
Jim
I got a front wheel dive car It's a C-max. I have not had any trouble. With my car yet with wheel spins yet.
If you now what your car can do or can not do you shud be ok.
Mark
As I have said before, I do not belong to the 4x4 brigade but I think the warnings by Big Roy and Clive are very sensible. All advice is clearly well intended and may well have worked in the past but some of the suggestions are slightly scary! One safe(?) technique I have used in the past to get the van out of a hole is to "walk" it out by chocking one wheel and pulling the drawbar at 90 degrees to normal, either manually or by tow rope. This pulls the other wheel out of the hole easily as you have enormous leverage from the axle to the hitch and the process is then repeated in the other direction. Its very laborious and so only suitable for short distances but it might get you out of a "hole"!
I agree that the use of recovery ropes requires a lot of respect (I've used them myself even to pull 4x4's out of trouble) but my suggestion was only as a last straw solution where there is no-one else around to help. That being the case, there wouldn't be anyone that could get injured, either. In general, however, one is seldom alone on a campsite and you will always find pairs of willing hands to help if the need arises.
Sorry Lutz - But I REALLY have to disagree on this last point.
I use these recovery ropes, winches and ground anchors etc on a reasonably regular basis.
I cannot believe you would advocate using a recovery rope on ones own!
That breaks the most basic Health & Safety rule of all.
Sorry that we disagree on this as I respect your knowledge and expertise on other topics but I strongly recommend caution in advocating what you suggest.
I use these recovery ropes, winches and ground anchors etc on a reasonably regular basis.
I cannot believe you would advocate using a recovery rope on ones own!
That breaks the most basic Health & Safety rule of all.
Sorry that we disagree on this as I respect your knowledge and expertise on other topics but I strongly recommend caution in advocating what you suggest.
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