Where does it end!!!

[benshepherd]

I am with the CAMC club too and as mentioned above they do not specify which type of lock.

Some insurance companies don't list JSBs on their approved devices despite it being the most secure available. My previous company was like that, so I had the cheapest insurance approved clamp on the other side too.

Yes flooding or fire would be a hassle. Far less likely to occur than a theft though. Every other clamp (including the chassis mounted ones) can be cut off quickly with oxyacteylene. JSBs are the only exception.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Insurance companies seem to want their cake and to be able to eat it as well! The problems of theft and other potential losses through fire, flood etc seem to requires completely opposite security needs. If you want a caravan to be secure, it means it musn't be able to be quickly towed away, and if you want it to be easily towed, then it is inherently insecure.

I think Ben has taken a perfectly reasonable approach by looking at the relative probabilities of the two requirements, and I wholeheartedly agree theft is more likely than fire.

 

[Raywood]

The wheel lock is a problem if there is a fire or flood, but the theft risk is highest, so that is the one that gets priority. It is simply a case of trying to deal with the biggest risk and having to accept the others.

 

[Buckman]

If it is so easy to fit the JSB then surely it is just as easy to remove it? I am also wondering where the wheel is stored when the JSB is fitted especially if on site? Many caravans have a spare wheel and unless that is removed surely the JSB is no better than any other lock?

 

[benshepherd]

I can see where you are coming from, but they are not easy to remove.

The JSBs are held on by 4 x security bolts each. I was very sceptical at first before getting mine as security bolts are typically very easy to remove by one of 3 methods: Hammering a slightly small socket over the bolt; Using a specialised removal tool (Dynomec often seen as the best ones); Welding a nut onto the bolt which can then be used to remove it. For this reason, security bolts are typically at best a deterrent for opportunistic thieves and nothing more. However, in the case of JSBs, the security bolts are positioned down a very deep recess (several cm) which has very narrow clearance at the edges. Therefore it would be exceptionally difficult to use any of the methods detailed above. Also, it is not easy to just cut them off with oxyacet. Yes, you could do it in theory (there is a youtube video to show this), but they are such a large and heavy chunk of metal, that in cutting them off, they would absorb so much heat that the hub underneath would be destroyed.

One of the moderators on the Hobby forums is a Hobby dealer but also owns a tyre/wheel fitting business. Those guys are usually experts at removing locking nuts. He has confirmed he cannot remove JSBs and uses them to protect all his caravans.

I store my spare wheels locked in my truck - not to stop a thief from using them to steal my caravan as I am confident in the JSBs, but just to stop thieves from stealing my wheels.

 

[Thingy]

The JSb Hublock claims on its webpage the following

Although most insurance policies specify the use of a wheel clamp, the following companies have confirmed the JSB Hublock as an approved alternative.
APPROVED LIST
Caravan Club insurance Services Tel: 01342 336610

The CAMC offer a decent discount for the use of the AlKo wheel lock, do they give the same discount for the use of the JSB. The answer to that will tell you how secure the CAMC think they are.

 

[benshepherd]

Completely disagree, sorry. Just because they are not on the same approved list as the Alkos does not mean they are not as tough. They simply haven't been tested to the same standard, although they will exceed any standard the Alko meets. I can guarantee you I can remove Alko wheel locks (without keys) without too much bother. I couldn't get the JSBs off. I am not a thief thief though, just someone who likes to do a bit of metal fabricating as a hobby, with a reasonable selection of tools.
I know it sounds like I have something to gain by pushing JSBs, but I really haven't. The only reason I care if anyone else uses them is I am fed up of hearing of caravans being stolen when there is a good alternative out there to more traditional locks. Every time caravans get stolen, then we all pay for it in insurance. As a Hobby owner, this is something I am particularly aware of.

 

[Thingy]

You didnt read my post properly, I didnt make any claim one way or the other. Simply asking if the caravan club offer the same discount. If they dont, and i dont know the answer, it would suggest the CAMC dont consider them as secure as the Alko, approved list or not.

Whether that assumption by the CAMC is correct or not is a different matter altogether.

 

[otherclive]

Strange as it is said to have passed Sold Secure Gold test standard. I think CAMC only give discount for the Al-Ko wheel lock. Wonder if it’s a case of “ wheels within wheels” ?

 

[benshepherd]

You didnt read my post properly, I didnt make any claim one way or the other. Simply asking if the caravan club offer the same discount. If they dont, and i dont know the answer, it would suggest the CAMC dont consider them as secure as the Alko, approved list or not.

Whether that assumption by the CAMC is correct or not is a different matter altogether.

Sorry misread it. I can confirm that the CAMC don't give it the same discount as the Alko lock as I had this discussion with them last week when I renewed insurance. They weren't aware of the JSBs. However, I'm happy just to accept the slightly higher premium than go for a lower premium with a less secure alko lock.

 

[Thingy]

I dont use the Alko either, but its not by choice, rather necessity.

They weren't aware of the JSBs.

But on http://www.jsbhublock.co.uk/insurance/ they claim to be CAMC approved. Thats sounding a bit off to me. Surely these things are really winter wheels.

 

[Hutch]

I think, I would rather use a more secure caravan site that go to the hassle of jacking up the caravan, remove a wheel, fit the JSB. Etc. A great bit of kit in a storage site though.

 

[otherclive]

I think, I would rather use a more secure caravan site that go to the hassle of jacking up the caravan, remove a wheel, fit the JSB. Etc. A great bit of kit in a storage site though.

I can’t recall many, if any, reports of caravans stolen from mainstream sites. Homes and storage sites yes quite a few. On mainstream sites you are surrounded by “voyeurs “ awnings and other stuff are all connected, caravan is occcupied at night etc plus the sites own security. If vans are stolen it’s often to order so homes and storage sites gives theives the chance to target a specific type.

Now CL and CS probably are a higher risk of caravan theft and so good security will undoubtedly help.

 

[Raywood]

The JSB looks the most secure system but it must be a real bind to get on and off and needs torquing up when removed. Possibly generally effective except against the most determined thief who has checked the security before hand and has the spare wheels and other gear needed.
The C&CC did used to have details of where thefts on their policies occurred and home and none CASSOA sites were top.