Where is my control Panel?

[Petra20]

Hello, we have recently acquired an Elddis XL Plus Hurricane that has a

Carver Cascade Rapide GE
GB127900 1999
water heater

The problem is that none of the controls that are grouped together look like the expected control with the On/Off switch and 3 indicator lamps.

I suspect one of the fused outlets is for the emersion heater supply and the Truma Ultraheat was for a ducted heater that is no longer present.
We have looked everywhere but no luck.
Can anyone help?

 

[toad a caravan]

Probably 2nd row 2nd fused spare, possibly 3amp or 5amp fuse.Ive got instructions for your water heater(Gas Electric) that's what the GE is for if you are curious

 

[ProfJohnL]

One of the fused spur switches might control the mains electric element of the Carver Cascade Rapide, and the gas side of the Cascade might be fused through one of the fuses in the bank of 8, but which relates to which is not clear. It is also certain the original Carver control switch is not present, so a previous owner has changed things.

If you got the caravan from a dealer they should resolve any problems, but if you got it from a private sale, perhaps a telephone call to the owner might throw some light on the matter.

 

[Petra20]

One of the fused spur switches might control the mains electric element of the Carver Cascade Rapide, and the gas side of the Cascade might be fused through one of the fuses in the bank of 8, but which relates to which is not clear. It is also certain the original Carver control switch is not present, so a previous owner has changed things.

If you got the caravan from a dealer they should resolve any problems, but if you got it from a private sale, perhaps a telephone call to the owner might throw some light on the matter.

It came from a person best described as a dealer posing as a private seller, so I don't suppose they know much about it's history or even care. For instance we where given a Whale Watermaster Pump (stock picture below) but it did not fit because the housing was for a Truma Carver Crystal 3 that was I have been told only made for a short time.

We have since replaced the Inlet with a nice new Truma Carver Crystal 2 made by Filtapac.

Regarding the water heater I have pdf's of the Installation manual and users instructions.
I have noticed that the cable connection to the back of the burner unit is clear and rectangular and not a 7 pin DIN, I don't know if that makes it a Henry, which uses a different control panel, but still the three indicators.
I have had a quick attempt to follow the control cable, but it becomes difficult, mixed in with a lot of others under the floor behind the nearside wheel below the the switch panel, pictured previously.
The hunt goes on.

 

[toad a caravan]

This is what's fitted on mine(note the top image only controls the TEB blower unit) also this what was fitted circa 1992)

 

[Petra20]

View attachment 9754This is what's fitted on mine(note the top image only controls the TEB blower unit) also this what was fitted circa 1992)

That is what I have been looking for. I will probably try injecting a signal at the burner end of the cable and try racing it with a AM radio in an attempt to find it course. Does yours have the 7 pin DIN connectors?
This is the spec plate:

As you can see, it appears that it was manufactured in 1999.

 

[Petra20]

View attachment 9754This is what's fitted on mine(note the top image only controls the TEB blower unit) also this what was fitted circa 1992)

This is an image I found on eBay. The plug is similar to the one fitted to me unit as far as I can tell, however I will need to investigate further, which will not be for a couple of days.

 

[toad a caravan]

I will look for my spare unit complete with lead and plug and post an image of it ,

 

[ProfJohnL]

View attachment 9756
This is an image I found on eBay. The plug is similar to the one fitted to me unit as far as I can tell, however I will need to investigate further, which will not be for a couple of days.

That is the style of control switch the Carver Rapide should have. By this time they had moved away from the DIN plug and socket and moved to a 4 way cable and connector However some caravan manufacturers replaced the cable and switch with their own wiring. The later burner control modules retained both the din and rectangular connectors to facilitate backwards compatibility.

 

[Petra20]

That is the style of control switch the Carver Rapide should have. By this time they had moved away from the DIN plug and socket and moved to a 4 way cable and connector However some caravan manufacturers replaced the cable and switch with their own wiring. The later burner control modules retained both the din and rectangular connectors to facilitate backwards compatibility.

Found it

It is becoming increasingly obvious that the caravan has at some time been stripped of useful parts, probably by the seller/dealer. So the question now is: do I by a replacement the control panel and hope that the heater works. Or is there some way of testing the heater burner first?

 

[IanB1485]

there are a couple of companies on ebay that advertise testing , repairing carver units , I have used one of them to repair a unit which had suffered from frost damage and snapped off the long bolt which held the water tank on. The unit came back with 3 days and worked when refitted . I would suggest you contact them through ebay which pictures of of what you have got and they might have a wiring diagram and the parts you are missing. To replace completely with a Truma combi 4e hot water and blown air heating kit is about £1300, not cheap.To replace just the water heater with a truma ultrastore kit is about £420 + fitting

 

[ProfJohnL]

If the wall switch has been removed, it begs the question "has the Burner control module also been removed from the Cascade 2 water heater. This is essentially the part that would be connected to the other end of the four wires at the heater end., and it looks like this

The following exploded parts diagram shows where it is fitted through the outside of the heater.

When its installed you should be able to see or feel the black plastic box just under the tank where is meets the casting inside the caravan. So it's easy to check if its there. If the burner module is missing you will need to decide if you want to replace it.

If the heater is presently water tight, and functions satisfactorily on 230V ac mains water heating , there is no reason it can't easily be repaired to function on gas.

Both the wall switch, and burner modules are available as refurbished devices on Ebay so for about £120 of parts or so you should be able to reinstate the gas heating function.

As with all gas work it must be carried out in accordance with the local regulations, and if you are not competent, you should employ a qualified fitter to ensure your own safety and legal compliance.

 

[Petra20]

If the wall switch has been removed, it begs the question "has the Burner control module also been removed from the Cascade 2 water heater. This is essentially the part that would be connected to the other end of the four wires at the heater end., and it looks like this
View attachment 9780
The following exploded parts diagram shows where it is fitted through the outside of the heater.
View attachment 9783
When its installed you should be able to see or feel the black plastic box just under the tank where is meets the casting inside the caravan. So it's easy to check if its there. If the burner module is missing you will need to decide if you want to replace it.

If the heater is presently water tight, and functions satisfactorily on 230V ac mains water heating , there is no reason it can't easily be repaired to function on gas.

Both the wall switch, and burner modules are available as refurbished devices on Ebay so for about £120 of parts or so you should be able to reinstate the gas heating function.

As with all gas work it must be carried out in accordance with the local regulations, and if you are not competent, you should employ a qualified fitter to ensure your own safety and legal compliance.

The burner unit looks to be all there. I removed the outer cover to clean away the accumulated cobwebs and leaves. I have also replaced the O-rings around the drain plug. The burner control module is present and I have ordered a used control panel which looks to be in a reasonable condition. Should arrive sometime next week. It does appear that the electric heating element has gone open circuit, but at least if the gas burner works we can have hot water. I don't suppose anyone has a schematic available by any chance.

 

[Petra20]

If the wall switch has been removed, it begs the question "has the Burner control module also been removed from the Cascade 2 water heater. This is essentially the part that would be connected to the other end of the four wires at the heater end., and it looks like this
View attachment 9780
The following exploded parts diagram shows where it is fitted through the outside of the heater.
View attachment 9783
When its installed you should be able to see or feel the black plastic box just under the tank where is meets the casting inside the caravan. So it's easy to check if its there. If the burner module is missing you will need to decide if you want to replace it.

If the heater is presently water tight, and functions satisfactorily on 230V ac mains water heating , there is no reason it can't easily be repaired to function on gas.

Both the wall switch, and burner modules are available as refurbished devices on Ebay so for about £120 of parts or so you should be able to reinstate the gas heating function.

As with all gas work it must be carried out in accordance with the local regulations, and if you are not competent, you should employ a qualified fitter to ensure your own safety and legal compliance.

The above image of the burner unit is very revealing as it shows the presence of two gas valves which is not so obvious from the image I made below.

However I have noticed the legends HIGH & LOW in the casting and arrows in between. Do these pertain to the valves or something else?

 

[ProfJohnL]

The above image of the burner unit is very revealing as it shows the presence of two gas valves which is not so obvious from the image I made below.
View attachment 9784
However I have noticed the legends HIGH & LOW in the casting and arrows in between. Do these pertain to the valves or something else?

In the original 1984 version of the burner control module the temperature sensing of the water was managed by a bi metalic switch, which included a thumb wheel so the maximum gas heated water temperature could be adjusted down from its maximum of about 70C. The "HI and LOW" marks related to the switch adjustment. The switch did have some implications for reliability.

Customer feedback probably showed that most customer never knew even attempted to adjust the water temperature, so it would be both a cost saving and a improvement in reliability to eliminate the variable switch and replace it with a solid state NTC thermistor.

 

[Petra20]

That's very interesting, thank you. Could you tell me how the burner module detects when the burner has lit, as I can not see a thermocouple, I can only assume it has some kind of photo sensitive device such as an LDR for instance.