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Jul 18, 2017
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The choice of DC vs AC for High Voltages transmissions is complex. There are losses in both systems, but due to different causes, and its hard to work out, unless your an expert, what the rationel for using one over the other is. According to some, DC is a better transmission system ( I guess taking into account all the pros and cons) than AC but AC is the main system as its easier to drop down to usable voltages.
I would think a lot of heavy duty machinery works on 3 phase AC which I think is 400v in the UK. Many caravan parks utilise 3 phase as each phase can be up to 100amp. Also lot of domestic appliances have circuitry to convert AC to DC and then transformers to drop the voltage down to maybe 24 or 12v.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Here is a brief summary of the criteria for choosing AC vs DC for super high voltage long distance transmission lines.


This makes no difference to the low power AC we use in homes or commercial sites.
 
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Here is a brief summary of the criteria for choosing AC vs DC for super high voltage long distance transmission lines.


This makes no difference to the low power AC we use in homes or commercial sites.

Very interesting. I wonder if they still would need helicopters to spray clean the insulators if DC transmission lines?
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Very interesting. I wonder if they still would need helicopters to spray clean the insulators if DC transmission lines?
Fascinating but very confusing .
The conclusion “
Conclusion
The AC transmissions line is used for small power transmission. And for large distance power transmission, the DC transmission system is used.

So I thought our majestic pylons were carrying AC at very high voltage ? Live and learn.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Fascinating but very confusing .
The conclusion “
Conclusion
The AC transmissions line is used for small power transmission. And for large distance power transmission, the DC transmission system is used.

So I thought our majestic pylons were carrying AC at very high voltage ? Live and learn.
Let me add to your confusion!!!! Or possibly resolve your recently created uncertainty.(y):cool:

https://www.nationalgrid.com/sites/default/files/documents/13784-High Voltage Direct Current Electricity – technical information.pdf
 

Sam Vimes

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FYI- the Western High Voltage DC link interconnector is 600Kv and runs for over 400Km, most of it undersea.

Interesting though that in the 19th century the battle between Tesla and Edison was about distributing electricty as AC(Tesla) or DC (Edison). It seems that while it was agreed the AC system was better, Edison was better at propoganda and marketing and won the game only to lose it later when AC was adopted as the main distribution system.
 
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How much is all this costing the final end user🤔🤔
The cost of drilling for oil/gas, the rigs, undesea pipelines, accommodation rigs and support ships and helicopter infrastructure going back to the mainland wasn't for free. Much of that stuff is now nearing the end of its life and would need to be replaced or decommissioned both more complex and environmentally challenging than dealing with wind turbines. There have been interconnected cables between Britain and Europe and Ireland for a long while and they work generally without any trouble. Perhaps our problem is that unlike Norway who have used their oil and gas wealth to create the worlds largest sovereign wealth fund, Britain has spent its revenues, rather than investing in long term strategic programmes. We like living on the cheap.
 
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Fascinating but very confusing .
The conclusion “
Conclusion
The AC transmissions line is used for small power transmission. And for large distance power transmission, the DC transmission system is used.

So I thought our majestic pylons were carrying AC at very high voltage ? Live and learn.
Presently within the UK I do not believe there is any HVDC transmission it is still all AC.
 

Sam Vimes

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As per my previous post...


The Western High Voltage DC link between Scotland and North Wales is just that.... 600Kv of DC over 400Km.

The proposed Eastern link will probably be similar.
 

Sam Vimes

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No problem :)

I guess these two links are a special case and that most if not all of the on-shore distribution grid is, as you say, all AC.
 
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It’s a moving situation both within UK and between UK and Europe. The link below shows OFGEM plans for more inter connectors to be in place progressively between now and 2030. It’s a significant increase in capacity. But of course the elephant in the room is what happens when the wind doesn’t blow or sun doesn’t shine. Is it gas or nuclear to provide base load. Our nuclear capacity is scheduled to reduce, France which has 75% of its electricity from ageing nuclear plants, and Germany has closed its nuclear plants following Fukushima. And UK and Europe are not self sufficient in gas. So the transition to 2050 is going to be interesting to say the least. I note that many car makers are not planning hybrids after 2030 for the European markets but will continue to produce ICE for markets where EV isn’t yet practicable.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-pol...icy-and-regulatory-programmes/interconnectors
 
Jun 20, 2005
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With diesel exceeding £1.55, calories gas rising and all bills increasing I’d like you to read this in yesterday’s DT. Nothing wrong wanting to be green . Can we honestly afford it🤔🤔175866F3-F8CB-46CB-8FB0-AF8EFF666186.jpeg
 
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With diesel exceeding £1.55, calories gas rising and all bills increasing I’d like you to read this in yesterday’s DT. Nothing wrong wanting to be green . Can we honestly afford it🤔🤔
A very interesting article and on several occasions in the past I have remarked about our air source heat pump not being very effective, but got shot down in flames. We have a gas heater in our living room for those really cold nights.
Also found that heat pump tumble driers are not as efficient as any reasonable person would expect them to be. We have learnt to live with the fact that the tumble drier can take up to 4 hours to dry the same load that the vented tumble drier took less than 2 hours.
 
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Nov 16, 2015
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We bought a new Tumble drier, 6 weeks ago, a conventional Condenser drier, and it dries a 6kg load in about 80 minutes for 70 pence on an economy 7 rate. I am still with "Bulb" on a cheap rate at the moment.
 
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We bought a new Tumble drier, 6 weeks ago, a conventional Condenser drier, and it dries a 6kg load in about 80 minutes for 70 pence on an economy 7 rate. I am still with "Bulb" on a cheap rate at the moment.
Wise move and hopefully my post regarding our heat pump tumble drier purchase influenced your decision. :D
 
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Wise move and hopefully why post regarding our heat pump tumble drier purchase influenced your decision. :D
Yes your information on heat pump Tumble driers, did influence me, and also my younger brothers experience with heat pump central heating.
Being an engineer on aircraft and generally savvy, helps a lot. Listening to folk in pubs also helps a lot. 🍻
 
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With diesel exceeding £1.55, calories gas rising and all bills increasing I’d like you to read this in yesterday’s DT. Nothing wrong wanting to be green . Can we honestly afford it🤔🤔...
There are some questionable statements in that article, and I wonder if the piece has been cut down by an editor.

"Heat pumps are not as efficient as gas boilers." There are a lot of variables when it comes to establishing the efficiency of boilers and other types of heating so that particular statement needs to be clarified more objectively. For example Condensing Gas boilers can achieve efficiencies of in excess of 90% And if conditions are ideal some will exceed 95%. Now to be clear that is the heat energy delivered into the water divided by the energy content of the fuel burnt. Now that is good by any standard.

But heat pumps again depending on the exact conditions will actually liberate in some cases up to 500% of the electrical energy used to drive the system. More typically it will be 200 to 350% , but it is still vastly more than the most efficient gas boilers.

If instead of looking at efficiency, if you look at the effectiveness then the operating conditions can play a bigger part, and as the article suggests the maximum temperature of the working fluid will affect how much heat energy can be transferred. Whilst that is a possible limitation, there are ways around it.

Increasing the working area of radiators will allow fluid at a lower temperature to liberate the same amount of heat as a smaller radiator working at a higher temperature.

But there also systems where a second stage heat pump that can take the lower temperature from the first cycle and raise the temperature to provide better radiator performance.

Heat pumps are not the answer for everything. and reputable fitting companies should be able to advise when HP's are appropriate or not. As with so many walks of life, no single solution is likely to be universally adopted. we need some diversity, but as we have seen with motor cars, it is probable that limited number of technologies will take the lions share of the workload, and the less easily implemented solutions will fill the cracks where the main solution is not appropriate.

The quoted figures for improving thermal insulation are not neccessarily typical, and an extra layer of roof insulation will certainly not cost many £k's

To answer Dusty's question about green energy "Can we honestly afford it" To be honest I don't think there is a realistic long term alternative. We are going to have to afford it, if we are serious about reducing CO2 and other pollutants generated by burning fossil fuels. Ultimately there is a limited supply of these fuels, and eventually they will run out, Whilst I cannot see how we can totally remove our reliance on some of these fuels during my life time, that does not mean we shouldn't begin the process for our children to carry forward.

There are plenty of people who are looking for excuses not to change the way we use and waste energy, If more people would take a lead in trying to make these resources last longer for the future, the better it will get.
 
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Whilst the Fukushima event was instrumental in the German decision to cease nuclear generation, they never mention the fact that the only way Merkel could establish a majority coalition to run the country was to pair up with the Greens, and the only way the Greens would do that was if Nuclear was shut down PDQ.
 
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I do not want to pay for a new Heat pump , heating system for my house, or an Electric car, using up say 30% of my retirement money, when in maybe 10 years time, heat pumps will be more efficient and I may no longer be able to tow a caravan or even drive. By that time I will be 80 years old, and then hopefully I will sell my large house and down size to a nice two bedroom house with a garage/ shed near to a nice pub. That has already been modified by somebody else.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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My take is with WW3 potentially on the horizon, Ukraine and all that, what do I care about Green🤔
Heat pumps start at £18k,.My new grade A efficient gas boiler , Vaillant £1k.
Maybe time to start looking at burning fossil fuels and wood burners again😉😉, said tic.
 
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I have thought about removing my electric fire from our lounge and fitting a cheap wood burner, as I now have 11, 6ft x 5ft fence panels to use as a heat source. Thanks to Storm Eunice. 😥

My Nextdoor neighbour fits wood burners. He fitted one in his own house. But he gets his wood free. Traveling round with his van and trailer he blags logs and trees which he regularly brings home. He puts a massive amount of work into sawing it up and storing it. Having built about 10 cubic metres of covered and vented storage.

A lot of work. Not sure it would be viable if he had to buy logs.

John
 

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