Which is better, Camping and Caravanning Club or Caravan and Motorhome Club?

[macandy]

Not so sure I’d really want to reduce the distance as on some Continental sites we have visited you can seem much closer to your neighbours and more closed in. Though I’ve never worried about the fire aspects. Whilst modern vans are no doubt more fire resistant than the old 1930s construction that you quote, they do burn very rapidly if fire takes hold.

I find closer pitching makes for a good atmosphere on site.
Close enough to chat, close enough to share a beer.

However, there is a financial issue with the very wide spacing on UK sites, revenue per acre is very low, much lower than overseas operators can generate in the same area.
So we have two options, ever increasing U.K. prices, (already very high), or sites close.

 

[RogerL]

I find closer pitching makes for a good atmosphere on site.
Close enough to chat, close enough to share a beer.

However, there is a financial issue with the very wide spacing on UK sites, revenue per acre is very low, much lower than overseas operators can generate in the same area.
So we have two options, ever increasing U.K. prices, (already very high), or sites close.

There's a third option - CL/CS sites which have plenty of space, lower prices and some with facilities better than any club site.

 

[Buckman]

Yes, it’s imposed by locally authorities who are too lazy to update the primary legislation its derived from, the 1936 Public Health Act - regulations to mainly control itinerant camps and travelers, at a time when the primary construction of temporary habitations was tar paper and bitumen sealed canvas - rather inflammable structures to be sure.
The Legislation was mildly revised in 1960 and recognised that caravans were now starting to made of less flammable materials to a limited extent, but yet again, it doesn’t specifically cover touring caravans, rather grouping them in with statics - lazy legislation.
With a metal caravan, the regulations iirc are 5m between parallel walls and 3.5m between corners.

The clubs rather than mounting a legal challenge to local authorities cutting and pasting regulations for statics onto their sites, have been content to not only go along with it, but have extended the guidance to ever greater distances.
Now, we may be ‘different’ in the UK, but I can’t see as how U.K. caravans are potential fireballs that need keeping at massive distances from each other, yet Germany, a country with extremely robust fire safety regulations - permits much closer pitching.

This is simply madness - if caravans are such a fire risk, why is my local council and fire brigade happy for me to park it at home literally 150mm from my house walls.View attachment 3255

It probably takes about 10 minutes for a caravan to burn down to the chassis. Caravans are still very inflammable. Your home is not a business so H&S probably does not cover it, but I bet your home is insured.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Yes, it’s imposed by locally authorities who are too lazy to update the primary legislation its derived from, the 1936 Public Health Act - ......

The clubs rather than mounting a legal challenge to local authorities cutting and pasting regulations for statics onto their sites, have been content to not only go along with it, but have extended the guidance to ever greater distances.
Now, we may be ‘different’ in the UK, but I can’t see as how U.K. caravans are potential fireballs that need keeping at massive distances from each other, yet Germany, a country with extremely robust fire safety regulations - permits much closer pitching.
....

If the spacing requirements are driven by legislation, then local authorities (LA) would be risking a lot if they didn't adopt the legislation.

As the local bye laws are as the name suggests local, the club's would have to approach each LA separately, which would rack up massive legal costs on each side, and as mentioned above is not likely to change anything.

If it's legislation that you want to change, then you have to lobby parliament, and the caravan industry has the NCC to do that.

But then what is fundamentally wrong with 6m? If you have ever seen the result of a caravan fire, (and I have seen several as part of one of my jobs) even at 6m the heat from one burning caravan is more than enough to severely damage caravans on adjoining pitches. In some case the wind was strong enough to cause an adjacent caravan to also set on fire, so I see the 6m spacing to be a practical distance that at least gives adjacent caravanner's time to evacuate to safety.

 

[Dustydog]

A lot of you will remember this tragedy three years ago. Plenty of distance for me please.

Caravans destroyed in huge fire

Forty caravans have been destroyed with a further 40 damaged.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Beachball]

it use to be a CS site near Chapel St Leonards last time there we found it had a new owner we love the large hard standing service pitch and astroturf 14m x 15m .well we was in for a shock the pitch we was put on there is two pitches in one . but some still have the old sizes
But what put us off he charging for everything
Maximum of 2 dogs
£2 per night per dog
Awning £2 per night

 

[Buckman]

If the spacing requirements are driven by legislation, then local authorities (LA) would be risking a lot if they didn't adopt the legislation.

As the local bye laws are as the name suggests local, the club's would have to approach each LA separately, which would rack up massive legal costs on each side, and as mentioned above is not likely to change anything.

If it's legislation that you want to change, then you have to lobby parliament, and the caravan industry has the NCC to do that.

But then what is fundamentally wrong with 6m? If you have ever seen the result of a caravan fire, (and I have seen several as part of one of my jobs) even at 6m the heat from one burning caravan is more than enough to severely damage caravans on adjoining pitches. In some case the wind was strong enough to cause an adjacent caravan to also set on fire, so I see the 6m spacing to be a practical distance that at least gives adjacent caravanner's time to evacuate to safety.

I am very happy with the 6m rule and agree with the above as it makes us feel safer which is why we avoid sites where tents and caravans mix. Some tenters have a habit of squeezing their tent between two units.
As above, if the local authorities never adopted the 6m rule, if there was a fire were lives were lost , the local authority could be sued for big money. I am sure it is the duty of the local fire brigade to check these sites annually.
Probably fire is why some sites will not allow gazebos and pup tents on the same pitch.

 

[macandy]

I am very happy with the 6m rule and agree with the above as it makes us feel safer which is why we avoid sites where tents and caravans mix. Some tenters have a habit of squeezing their tent between two units.
As above, if the local authorities never adopted the 6m rule, if there was a fire were lives were lost , the local authority could be sued for big money. I am sure it is the duty of the local fire brigade to check these sites annually.
Probably fire is why some sites will not allow gazebos and pup tents on the same pitch.

I take it you have never or will never camp outside the UK?

 

[macandy]

A lot of you will remember this tragedy three years ago. Plenty of distance for me please.

Caravans destroyed in huge fire

Forty caravans have been destroyed with a further 40 damaged.

www.bbc.co.uk

so the 6m spacing actually had no effect on fire spread….

 

[Buckman]

I take it you have never or will never camp outside the UK?

Why do you think that as you do not know me? In France and Spain ruling is similar and I am very happy with as much distance between us and any adjoining caravan. If you like the companionship of being close to the next caravan, why not rent a pitch in a storage yards?
Many of your posts seem to be a bit confrontational than helpful?

 

[Sam Vimes]

This seems to have descended into a debate about rules, regulations and legislation. Whatever your opinions please remember that others have the right to have a differing viewpoint.

Let's keep it a friendly discussion and not try to score points of each other in order to reinforce ones own viewpoint.

 

[macandy]

Why do you think that as you do not know me? In France and Spain ruling is similar and I am very happy with as much distance between us and any adjoining caravan. If you like the companionship of being close to the next caravan, why not rent a pitch in a storage yards?
Many of your posts seem to be a bit confrontational than helpful?

not exactly a ‘storage yard’, but one of my favourite sites in Germany.
and Germany has extremely tough fire safety legislation.

 

[otherclive]

I am very happy with the 6m rule and agree with the above as it makes us feel safer which is why we avoid sites where tents and caravans mix. Some tenters have a habit of squeezing their tent between two units.
As above, if the local authorities never adopted the 6m rule, if there was a fire were lives were lost , the local authority could be sued for big money. I am sure it is the duty of the local fire brigade to check these sites annually.
Probably fire is why some sites will not allow gazebos and pup tents on the same pitch.

This camper always pitches as far from caravans as possible, the noise of aircon, thetford pumps, bottles rattling upsets the tranquility. Even further away from motorhomes in case from their elevated driving position they run over me as they drive back from the pub at night.


But my granddaughter has no qualms about squeezing her tent into the pitch next to the caravan.

 

[otherclive]

I find closer pitching makes for a good atmosphere on site.
Close enough to chat, close enough to share a beer.

However, there is a financial issue with the very wide spacing on UK sites, revenue per acre is very low, much lower than overseas operators can generate in the same area.
So we have two options, ever increasing U.K. prices, (already very high), or sites close.

From my trips to France and Spain I would agree that many sites do have closer pitch spacings, but you don't take into account that most start to shut down from mid September to April, the exceptions being where the snowbirds go to roost, or winter sports. This was also the case when we went solo to the Ardennes, Vosges and Jura. Apart from in towns many hotels were closed in mid September when the season effectively ended. Yet in Britain the season for most sites runs from mid March to end October ( half terms) with many staying open until early January or the whole year. So the British business model differs from areas abroad where many Brits take their caravans.

 

[Raywood]

The 6 mere rule proved its worth when a caravan caught fire at the CAMH site at Broadway. The motorhomes either side were badly charred but did not catch fire. This suggests less could have been a disaster and that 6 metres was only just about big enough. Being closer might be more friendly, but could also be deadly.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Non of this "distance between caravans" has any relevance to the OP's question about what differentiates membership of the main clubs.

 

[Parksy]

Non of this "distance between caravans" has any relevance to the OP's question about what differentiates membership of the main clubs.

That's quite true Prof, especially in view of the fact that both clubs insist on the 6M rule being observed on their main club sites.
Having said that, there's a wealth of information about the two main clubs in a multitude of threads on this forum, and indeed on the websites of both clubs.
Good advice and information has been passed to the OP in this thread also.
As you well know Prof, forum discussions on any given subject, be it EVs, gas appliances or awnings often meanders along different paths.
You yourself have been known to divert forum discussions from the OPs original point to explore loosely connected other avenues.
As long as the discussion remains polite and friendly, I see no major problem if a discussion or debate follows a few twists and turns now and then.

 

[Gafferbill]

......yes and both clubs require an annual membership fee to frequent their sites or a large premium for non members.
I fail to see why anyone would denigrate the clubs rules and the general way they run their sites and still pay for membership.
Perhaps they were a member and have now left in which case the club rules are of no consequence to them anymore.

 

[Dustydog]

so the 6m spacing actually had no effect on fire spread….

Exactly, but no where near as bad had they been closer. Plus more time to escape death.

 

[Parksy]

......yes and both clubs require an annual membership fee to frequent their sites or a large premium for non members.
I fail to see why anyone would denigrate the clubs rules and the general way they run their sites and still pay for membership.
Perhaps they were a member and have now left in which case the club rules are of no consequence to them anymore.

Many will agree with you Bill, but on a caravan related internet forum members and non members express their opinions.
Members of both clubs should give their opinion on the way that the club that they pay to be a member of is run.
On internet forums we mostly read about negatives and gripes, but social media sometimes can be a catalyst to change things for the better.

 

[macandy]

This camper always pitches as far from caravans as possible, the noise of aircon, thetford pumps, bottles rattling upsets the tranquility. Even further away from motorhomes in case from their elevated driving position they run over me as they drive back from the pub at night.


But my granddaughter has no qualms about squeezing her tent into the pitch next to the caravan.

View attachment 3259View attachment 3260View attachment 3261View attachment 3262

I bet you even dry your towels in the hedge!

 

[macandy]

Exactly, but no where near as bad had they been closer. Plus more time to escape death.

escape death?
that’s a bit dramatic. I certainly don’t fret about a potential fiery death when sleeping in my caravan.

 

[macandy]

The 6 mere rule proved its worth when a caravan caught fire at the CAMH site at Broadway. The motorhomes either side were badly charred but did not catch fire. This suggests less could have been a disaster and that 6 metres was only just about big enough. Being closer might be more friendly, but could also be deadly.

well, you might assume that, but their any hard evidence such as controlled burns of caravans to prove it?
I’m minded to assume the Fuhrwehr have given some thought to fire risks on their national sites.

A realistic appraisal of fire risks caravan sites, (touring sites), would ban awnings and pop up garden gazebos or insist they were made on fireproof material - people will set them on fire by using gas stoves and BBQs in them.

 

[Hutch]

I have always looked at sites, either in UK or in France for the size of the pitches, and if they are too close together, I will move on. I am not happy for pitch 's to be on top of each other as in Mcandys, photo.s. I will pay more for more spacing.

 

[Jcloughie]

......yes and both clubs require an annual membership fee to frequent their sites or a large premium for non members.
I fail to see why anyone would denigrate the clubs rules and the general way they run their sites and still pay for membership.
Perhaps they were a member and have now left in which case the club rules are of no consequence to them anymore.

I don’t denigrate either clubs rules. But do complain about the regimantation and apparent lack of being trusted as an adult and the feeling that I am continually having to conform. But others really like that, so good luck to them. I can see that others may like the consistency of the facilities. But we don't use them! So of no interest.

So why then are we members of both clubs. Access the CL and CS networks. Foreign rallies, insurance, ferry deals.

Over recent years we have been using main sites more as getting too old for poor ground. But nowadays there are many more quality CL/CS’s to choose from.

John