Will the Diesel really Die?

[Dustydog]

This article in Caravan Times is very interesting.
Reading between the lines maybe there is a chance cleaner Diesels will be made

http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/industry/why-diesel-is-not-a-dirty-word-when-buying-a-motorhome-$21388224.htm?source=newsletter

 

[Hutch]

An interesting article, I noticed that Audi brought out a new Diesel Q7 , so they are not cutting back yet. I was looking at the new Sorento k4 and was interested to notice that it has fitted a Energy Regeneration system, basically when you take your foot of the accelerator the Sorento, recaptures the lost kinetic energy and uses it to recharge the battery, when the battery is fully charged the alternator is decoupled. And this is on a non hybrid engine.
I think we shall be pulling our Caravans with diesels for a long time yet.

 

[Grey13]

IMO all these strategic decisions are economically driven. ABBA got it right back in 1976. MONEY MONEY MONEY

 

[Craigyoung]

Good !
Cos im sick off reading & hearing about it now. "If"and only if it happens when it happens , it will happen !!
Until then .......

 

[Raywood]

The government is certainly after diesels but the reality may be that hitting them hard proves impossible but whatever you do is a gamble.
Those wishing to travel to Scotland should note that the government here is planning to basically price them out of the main cities in 2020. Plans are afoot for cameras to be set up like the London system and any diesel pre 2014 will either be banned or charged, the exact position is not clear at the moment. This would also apply to pre2006 petrol engines. The idea would then be rolled out to other smaller cities and towns. It is not a popular idea though so we will have to watch what happens but it could mean diesels areruled out here and a huge influx being moved to England with a serious drop in their value.

 

[Woodentop]

The government is certainly after diesels but the reality may be that hitting them hard proves impossible but whatever you do is a gamble.
Those wishing to travel to Scotland should note that the government here is planning to basically price them out of the main cities in 2020. Plans are afoot for cameras to be set up like the London system and any diesel pre 2014 will either be banned or charged, the exact position is not clear at the moment. This would also apply to pre2006 petrol engines. The idea would then be rolled out to other smaller cities and towns. It is not a popular idea though so we will have to watch what happens but it could mean diesels areruled out here and a huge influx being moved to England with a serious drop in their value.

Trouble is, like any UK governmental body, it is always hit hard rather than being more subtle. Remember that some of the worst pollution spots are in and around London - which is where government lives so what happens there must by default be the same everywhere else - at least it seems that that is how they think.*
Why cannot government do it the way that France and Germany have done so with much less cost. Simply issue every car with a sticker with a number on it that is related to its polluting levels. Then, when the smog gets bad simply light signs banning vehicles with stickers above/below a certain number. (In Germany the higher the number the less polluting, whereas in France the lower the pollution the lower the number.)
*Having just come back from the SE (specifically London and home counties south of the river) I now understand why roads in other parts of the country are full of potholes - there aren't any in said area ergo that must be the situation nationwide!
D'oh!!

 

[otherclive]

An interesting article, I noticed that Audi brought out a new Diesel Q7 , so they are not cutting back yet. I was looking at the new Sorento k4 and was interested to notice that it has fitted a Energy Regeneration system, basically when you take your foot of the accelerator the Sorento, recaptures the lost kinetic energy and uses it to recharge the battery, when the battery is fully charged the alternator is decoupled. And this is on a non hybrid engine.
I think we shall be pulling our Caravans with diesels for a long time yet.

My Superb does that too. It can makes for some interesting braking in certain situations when the regen cuts in.

 

[Hutch]

An interesting article, I noticed that Audi brought out a new Diesel Q7 , so they are not cutting back yet. I was looking at the new Sorento k4 and was interested to notice that it has fitted a Energy Regeneration system, basically when you take your foot of the accelerator the Sorento, recaptures the lost kinetic energy and uses it to recharge the battery, when the battery is fully charged the alternator is decoupled. And this is on a non hybrid engine.
I think we shall be pulling our Caravans with diesels for a long time yet.

My Superb does that too. It can makes for some interesting braking in certain situations when the regen cuts in.

Interesting , Mr Bond, . Fathers Day, talking with my youngest son exhaust design with jag land rover, left me feeling like a reall numpty. Which I suppose I am , nowadays. AMEL. 414541l. Dooooh.

 

[ProfJohnL]

As diesels have been invented, Ill hazard a guess they will never completely die, I'm sure there are some applications where diesel will be tho only means by which what ever it is will work, but having said that, we will see the end of diesels in number of applications, and some of those will be in transport.

Like it or not, the UK government is going to make diesel car ownership disproportionately more expensive, and the public will have little choice but to move away from it. It will be interesting to see how diesel is developed over the next few years, but I seriously doubt they will come up with an IC diesel that is free from harmful emissions.

 

[Buckman]

I am very glad that we have stuck with our 2005 3.0l CRD which does not have a DPF. IMHO it is a load of nonsense about NOx etc as no scientist has been able to prove conclusively the relationship between NOx and people dying. At the moment is basically an assumption.
Those people would probably have died even if there were no vehicles on the road. I am not saying that we should all drive vehicles that pollute the air, but let's be realistic about it. My thinking is that the government and the councils have marked the motorist as an easy target just want to squeeze more out of the motorist through additional taxes!

 

[otherclive]

I am very glad that we have stuck with our 2005 3.0l CRD which does not have a DPF. IMHO it is a load of nonsense about NOx etc as no scientist has been able to prove conclusively the relationship between NOx and people dying. At the moment is basically an assumption.
Those people would probably have died even if there were no vehicles on the road. I am not saying that we should all drive vehicles that pollute the air, but let's be realistic about it. My thinking is that the government and the councils have marked the motorist as an easy target just want to squeeze more out of the motorist through additional taxes!

It is the NOX and combination of PM 2.5 particles that are of concern. The media have actually created a lot of hype about mortality figures but if you read the original research paper the authors were at pains to make it clear that the contaminants were potentially responsible fir “equivalent deaths”. These weren’t actual bodies but people whose life expectancy had been reduced. So if say 500000 people had their life expectancy reduced by 1 month you would have 40000 equivalent deaths. So spread across the population where there are good air quality and bad air quality some are probably only experiencing a few hours reduced life expectancy.
However the crux of the matter isn’t really death equivalents it’s quality of air so that those exposed (all of us) aren’t affected by asthma and other respiratory problems where the very young and very old are the most susceptible.

 

[Hutch]

Sorry Buckman , too close to the bone for this thread. .

 

[Hutch]

I have just read This link a bit of a beast with a minimum of 3500 KG towing.

 

[otherclive]

I have just read This link a bit of a beast with a minimum of 3500 KG towing.

Hutch
Do you have an alternative link address as Safari will not open it.

PS edit. Got it thanks. Awesome.

 

[Buckman]

IMHO EV are just as unfriendly to the environment as any diesel or petrol car and are definitely not the future!

 

[ProfJohnL]

IMHO EV are just as unfriendly to the environment as any diesel or petrol car and are definitely not the future!

EV is the technology that is being strongly pushed by Governments, so even if you disagree with them, sadly you will see more and more of them on our roads There will be alternatives possibly Hydrogen, but as far as Diesel and petrol IC cars are concerned they have been doomed by our political masters.

More and more cities will be introducing restrictions on the use of IC engined vehicles within defined areas, so initiatives like that are going to push more people away from IC vehicles.

Having said that, there is a vast number of IC cars on the road, and it will take several decades before the IC engine is no longer significant, but I am certain other measures will be taken by the authorities to further restrict the use or availability of IC vehicles, and as the numbers diminish, the infrastructure to supply fuels will shrink, and costs of ownership rise disproportionately.

I also feel its wrong to condemn EV's It is still an evolving technology. and it is a fact that what ever man made technology you look at it does have some consequences on the environmental or ecological fronts. The nature and scale of the effects are different so its difficult to make a clear unambiguous comparison.

Like it or not - its coming

 

[Buckman]

EVs are outdated technology and will never been environmentally friendly. Where do you think that the electricity comes from to recharge them? What about the batteries at end of life? Would you buy a 5 year old EV?
It is my belief that there are more friendly environmentally power sources elsewhere and we just need to find a way to harness them i.e. magnetic waves etc.

 

[Dustydog]

My main concern will be our future dependency on Europe and Russia for the electricity to power the EV.
Back to Clive’s post is there any way the carcinogens in diesel exhaust can be removed after or before combustion

 

[otherclive]

EVs are outdated technology and will never been environmentally friendly. Where do you think that the electricity comes from to recharge them? What about the batteries at end of life? Would you buy a 5 year old EV?
It is my belief that there are more friendly environmentally power sources elsewhere and we just need to find a way to harness them i.e. magnetic waves etc.

Where do you obtain the magnetic waves from, and what is used to generate them? What is the overall efficiency of conversion of energy source too user for magnetic waves compared to say nuclear, solar or wind being used for direct charging of batteries via a VHV grid?

Somehow I suspect that this thread will be still running long after diesels have gone

 

[Buckman]

EVs are outdated technology and will never been environmentally friendly. Where do you think that the electricity comes from to recharge them? What about the batteries at end of life? Would you buy a 5 year old EV?
It is my belief that there are more friendly environmentally power sources elsewhere and we just need to find a way to harness them i.e. magnetic waves etc.

Where do you obtain the magnetic waves from, and what is used to generate them? What is the overall efficiency of conversion of energy source too user for magnetic waves compared to say nuclear, solar or wind being used for direct charging of batteries via a VHV grid?

Somehow I suspect that this thread will be still running long after diesels have gone

If I knew I would be a multi billionaire. :cheer: I just used magnetic waves as an example as there are many other sources of power that we probably do not know about or how to harness those that we know about at present.

 

[Craigyoung]

EVs are outdated technology and will never been environmentally friendly. Where do you think that the electricity comes from to recharge them? What about the batteries at end of life? Would you buy a 5 year old EV?
It is my belief that there are more friendly environmentally power sources elsewhere and we just need to find a way to harness them i.e. magnetic waves etc.

Where do you obtain the magnetic waves from, and what is used to generate them? What is the overall efficiency of conversion of energy source too user for magnetic waves compared to say nuclear, solar or wind being used for direct charging of batteries via a VHV grid?

Somehow I suspect that this thread will be still running long after diesels have gone

I think it's been running too long now ; it just gets a bit repetitive .

 

[ProfJohnL]

EVs are outdated technology and will never been environmentally friendly. Where do you think that the electricity comes from to recharge them? What about the batteries at end of life? Would you buy a 5 year old EV?
It is my belief that there are more friendly environmentally power sources elsewhere and we just need to find a way to harness them i.e. magnetic waves etc.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. EV's have indeed been around a long time actually starting around the same time as IC developments. They did fall out of favour because the technology of the day couldn't deliver motors or batteries, so whilst those early EV's certainly would not pass muster today, In more recent times the use of modern material and control systems, means EV's are far from out date, they are a technology in fervent development.

The components used in EV's are very recyclable. thus reducing the pressure on the environment.

The generation of electricity can be sourced from a variety of different schemes, and increasingly from renewables, unlike the fossil fuel used in petrol and Diesel vehicles. Also the main power generators can produce electricity and distribute it at a higher efficiency than cars use petrol or diesel.

So far from outdated. hmy:

 

[Icaru5]

At the price per litre I paid at Gretna Services on the A74M on Tuesday evening, I don’t think they’ll be in a rush to completely kill off the Diesel car anytime soon ...

 

[Craigyoung]

hmy: hmy: hmy:
Even though what I'm driving 50 hours a week plus , I'm glad I'm not in a job where I have to use motorway service stations using my money !

 

[Hutch]

The no Offence meaning, but "Third World Country's" will never come over to Electric VehIcles so world wide pollution will carry on, large transport boats etc. . EV are small things Get the governments to improve mass transport in city's to be cheaper and better.