Winter Tyres

[Jennifer2]

We have not found them to be much different from ordinary tyres noise-wise either. The difference in performance in slush is very marked, and of course in snow too.

These are the ones we have just fitted....

http://www.nokiantyres.com/tyre?id=11195214&group=2.01&name=Nokian WR G2 SUV

 

[Steve L]

I have found snow tyres to be noisier myself, when we used them on a Diahatsu 4X4.
Even in the snow we had in Herefordshire which was reported as being the worst for 30 years. I still got around and actually didn't need my little rope trich to drive down country lanes while circumnavigating Dinmore Hill, which was closed. That was because I had fitted a pair of new road tyres to the front of my Rover on 4th November and I used the traction control. I had to cut across country to get from the A49 to the A4110 to drive to Eardisland from Hereford.

You are right Lutz, most folks do instinctively hit the brakes no matter what the situation. But if you think about what your doing decelleration using the gears works better than even hitting the brakes with winter tyres on. There's an old saying of "feet is for dancing and brains is for thinking" down here in Herefordshire.

I would rather that, people learnt first to drive a car to it's full potential, than to rely upon gadgets like ABS, Traction Control, Itelegent Braking, Snow tyres and all the other gadgets and gizmos that car manufacturers advertise to tempt the unaware folks to by their latest car.

I know I said earlier that even I used traction control, but that was mainly because on the Rover 75 it is active all the time and you have to manually press an over ride button to de-select it, and I was concentrating on the narrow single track lanes and negotiating on comming traffic.

In the good old days of 1977 I had a Moggy Minor van as my first car and that had traction control powered by me ?! If I got stuck I used to switch off the engine select 1st or reverse gear, get out and crank the engine over without the ignition turned on, to move the van out of the stuck position. Sure it was "blood sweat and tears" at times, but it worked. Now today, with the advent of transverse engines and electronic gizmo's you can't even use a starting handle let alone find one other than in a museum.

 

[Lutz]

But if you think about what your doing decelleration using the gears works better than even hitting the brakes with winter tyres on.

That is an assertion which I have difficulty in accepting without some sort of verification.
Decellerating using the gears should be even better with winter tyres.

 

[Steve L]

The point I was making Lutz is, even with ABS the wheels either lock momentarily or slow rapdily enough (depending on the system fitted), which cloggs the tyre tread, Gearbox deceleration is a softer form of braking (or scrubbing off the speed as it's called in the trade), this still allows tye tyres to revolve and dispell sonw built up in the treads.
I agree deceleration is better with winter tyres but what you had originally talked about was actual braking. hence why I brought up the tip of using the gear box to decellerate and avoid braking until you realy have to.

 

[Steve L]

All the above measures are no alternative to winter tyres. They may give the car the necessary extra traction to move off, but they do nothing to compensate the extra braking distance that normal summer tyres suffer from at low temperatures.
Winter tyres are not meant only for ice and snow, but for all conditions as soon as the temperature drops close to freezing.
Besides, snow chains, snow socks or anything similar restrict the maximum allowable speed, usually to 30mph, so you need to remove them again as soon as the going improves. Except for some high performance vehicles for which there are no winter tyres with a speed rating to match their top speed, winter tyres don't restrict your maximum speed in any way and they are certainly adequate to match the 70mph limit in the UK.

That was where I got the impression that you were winter tyres were better on braking and also why I wanted to pont out that using brakes in snow and ice are a last resort.

 

[Lutz]

Actually I was referring to the benefits of winter tyres under the much more common conditions of dry or wet road surfaces rather than on ice and snow that we don't encounter so very often in our region.

 

[Shirker]

I hit the one consistent problem with towing in the snow yesterday - I was fine but an eejit in a rear wheel drive BMW had come to a stop on a sliproad and was completely stuck. Doesn't matter how good my 4wd is in the snow if the road is blocked anyway 🙁

 

[RogerL]

Doesn't matter how good my 4wd is in the snow if the road is blocked anyway 🙁

On US forums the Subaru owners frequently post about pulling "proper" 4x4s out of snowdrifts.

 

[otherclive]

There is a Youtube clip of an Impreza towing a London ambulance out of snow during last winter.

 

[RogerL]

There's also a Youtube clip of an Impreza in the Netherlands towing a fuel tanker, also from last winter.

 

[Lutz]

But winter tyres don't necessarily have anything to do with snowy conditions.

 

[Gafferbill]

……my understanding is that winter tyres just use a compound in their manufacture to maintain their suppleness at colder winter temperatures.
This gives enhanced grip performance over standard tyres during the winter months but not necessarily in snowy conditions.

Mud and snow tyres on the other hand are standard tyres that have a tread pattern more suited to the conditions implied in their name.
They are a compromise between on and off road for grip levels.
They are very good in snowy conditions.

Remember unless you have an all wheel drive vehicle, engine braking in snow or ice conditions can be problematic.
You will be asking only the tyres on the driven axle to provide all the grip for slowing the vehicle.
It is always better to Very gently apply the foot brake at the same time to obtain the grip available from all of your tyres.
Any experienced HGV driver will tell you this.

 

[Lutz]

That's right, Gafferbill. Not all winter tyres have an M+S rating (although they still perform a lot better on snow than 'regular' summer tyres) and not all M+S tyres are necessarily any better on snow than a good winter tyre, despite their specific tread pattern.

 

[RogerL]

Remember unless you have an all wheel drive vehicle, engine braking in snow or ice conditions can be problematic.
You will be asking only the tyres on the driven axle to provide all the grip for slowing the vehicle.

If only it were that simple.
On a 4wd vehicle with ANY form of torque variation in the centre unit, ie smart 4wd, viscous drive, torsen centre diff, etc - then only ONE axle will provide any engine braking because the other axle will simply have it's torque reduced or zeroised under engine braking - for transverse engines (the majority these days) they'll become fwd only under engine braking while a longitudinal engine will become rwd only although this layout will also include the real off-roaders with locking centre diffs etc which are the only 4wd vehicles to get engine braking on all 4 wheels.
Very few caravanners will use real off-roaders so the majority will only have engine braking on one axle, even if they have 4wd.
On the other hand, gentle foot braking will apply on both axles.

 

[Gafferbill]

RogerL

……thank you for explaining why I specifically used the phrase " unless you have an all wheel drive vehicle"
I specifically avoided the use of the term 4wd or 4x4 for the reasons you state.

 

[RogerL]

RogerL

……thank you for explaining why I specifically used the phrase " unless you have an all wheel drive vehicle"
I specifically avoided the use of the term 4wd or 4x4 for the reasons you state.

"all wheel drive" / "4wd" / "4x4" vehicle simply means that all wheels are driven - it has no regard for the nature of the mechanism involved - although there are plenty of conflicting unofficial "definitions" around.

 

[TimM]

We live on top of a 1 in 4 hill which is not gritted. The last few winters we have had snow for a few weeks. Our car is a Discovery which always had normal 4 x 4 road biased M&S rated tyres. Whilst my traction was a lot better better than a two wheel drive on snow, my ability to stop was not much better if at all than a two wheel drive. After very nearly getting stuck in the Becon Beacons 3 years ago in a surprise dumping of snow, I bought another set of alloy wheels off that well known auction site for £70 and a set of winter tyres. The difference, particularly on compacted snow and ice is awesome, particularly stopping ability. I change over to the winters when it looks like it will freeze and they stay on till about Easter. Last year I towed by nieghbours sports car, which was completely stuck, up our hill in several inches of snow.
Experience of front wheel drive hire cars in the alps on winter tyres is also extremely impressive. The difference on ice and snow compared to a normal summer tyre really is substantial. In the past winter tyres were sometimes noisy but the modern ones are no different to summer tyres. They have a lot more cuts in them which helps them grip and I am told the compound has a lot more silica in it. Certainly if you rub your hand round the tyre it feels almost like sand paper.
Yes there is the outlay for the tyres and in my case rims as well, but I am only wearing one set of tyres at a time so apart from the initial cost and the faf of changing the wheels over twice a year, for us there is a huge benefit.