You couldn’t make it up!!

[ProfJohnL]

I haven't researched the chemical composition of Tesla batteries, so I don't know how realistic Buckman's figures are. But just looking at the production impact of an EV compared to an ICE vehicle is not a reasonable balanced approach, because there are differences in the material usage and their environmental and socio economic impacts at that stage, but if you look at whole life impacts those balances change in favour of the EV after a year.

In relation to two specific materials mentioned Large amounts of lithium and colbalt are continually being used in the refining of petrochemicals, and once used their gone, at least with an EV battery both materials can be recycled as with about 90%, of the battery.

If you also look at the energy used by cars to travel, an EV typically uses only 1/5th the energy to that an IC engine vehicle uses to do the same amount of work.

So even if some of the electricity is generated from fossil, EV's are still winners.

In the UK up to 40% of our power is regularly derived from renewables, and that proportion is growing month by month, it's far from a "tiny" fraction.

If we want to continue to have personal transport, we will have accept it's going to have an effect on the environment. But we can make better decisions on the type of transport that minimises those environmental impacts, and presently, there is no doubt that throughout the life and use of a vehicle an EV is the lesser of two evils

Edit Correction Petroleum production relies on colbalt Not lithium.

 

[otherclive]

Or, opportunities in retraining, redeployment, education, less hours, better health, improved safety, improved leisure time, holidays. All part of innovation, evolution and advancement.

Reminiscent of:

England's rural peasants had enough of “threshing” machines,” which mechanised the separation of grain from husk and, in replacing manual labor, denied farm workers an important source of income. It would lead to the largest wave of unrest in English history.

And previously there was:

Johannes Gutenberg!​

John

I can only recall the large number of workers associated with horse drawn transport who were “ displaced” when their livelihoods were swept away with the arrival of the internal combustion engine. Similarly canals and railways. In any era of major change some people will be disadvantaged and others will benefit. Hopefully the former can move on to better things.

 

[Parksy]

I can only sympathise with the large number of workers associated with horse drawn transport who were “ displaced” when their livelihoods were swept away with the arrival of the internal combustion engine. Similarly canals and railways. In any era of major change some people will be disadvantaged and others will benefit. Hopefully the former can move on to better things.

I never knew those who were displaced by canals, railways and the i.c.e.
I know many who have been displaced since de-industrialisation.
There were some winners, but in the Black Country, far more losers who were never given or due to age were unable to accept the very few opportunities on offer here.
The sacrifice of livelihoods for me means that we've done our bit, let others do theirs.

 

[Dustydog]

Clive , frankly whatever you Google , whatever newspaper you read , you will get different answers. My comment regarding ice caps refers to Antarctica. According to some press and NASA and my research pilot friend the ice cap has increased in size over the last decade. Arctic I don’t know.
As a family we all do our best to save the planet. We recycle, are frugal with our heating bills, drive lean burn cars. The Kia C’eed diesel is so clean it is zero road tax.
I and my friends just don’t have the £80 k or so to buy a green machine and even if I did my contribution wouldn’t even be worth a grain of sand in the whole big scheme of things. Until the high polluters world wide start making progress I really cant get too excited about my minimal contribution to pollution ,ice caps and so on .
Maybe the vast amounts of money we donate to “ poor “ countries like India etc would be better spent in the U.K. sorting out our own poor. I rant because when you see who owns some of the largest supermarkets, runs the majority of the roadside fuel stations etc etc. The Green Genie? NO!

 

[Jcloughie]

I may sound unsympathetic. but we all have a responsibility for our own work life. In my case, when work got scarce I found work in Germany. I also retrained and then retrained yet again. Remember Mr Tebbit. And all those who moaned: "Why should we".

Later, being involved in education and in training I was amazed at the number of people who refused to do so.

I can see that where an industry is closed down too quickly and without proper planning being put in place. It will cause major problems, particularly for older age groups. But surely proper management is the answer rather than any attempt to stop advancement for all.


John

 

[Parksy]

I don't see anyone trying to stop advancement for all.
It's simply that some of us don't buy the lies and hypocrisy that surround the unmandated green agenda.

 

[Jcloughie]

I don't see anyone trying to stop advancement for all.
It's simply that some of us don't buy the lies and hypocrisy that surround the unmandated green agenda.

My response was to your comment, ‘We've done our bit’. I don’t agree anyone has the right to say that, or that we will ever reach such a goal.

But I wholeheartedly agree regarding the hypocrisy and lies. Also, add ignorance. The mandate is being inflicted by nature.

John

 

[Parksy]

I have my opinion, others have theirs.
These divergent opinions are unlikely ever to coincide.

 

[Dustydog]

Clive ,
I promised the technical stuff from my friend who names Tony Heller as a very talented scientist.

Real Climate Science

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" - Richard Feynman

realclimatescience.com

Please do not drag me into a Green debate . This is purely an example of what our own U.K. Scientists are doing.

 

[otherclive]

Clive ,
I promised the technical stuff from my friend who names Tony Heller as a very talented scientist.

Real Climate Science

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" - Richard Feynman

realclimatescience.com

Please do not drag me into a Green debate . This is purely an example of what our own U.K. Scientists are doing.

Dusty
thanks it gives an Interesting take on climate issues, and not all “sceptical” in fact somewhat more supportive than I thought would be the case. I took the opportunity to read some back issues and for the life of me cannot fathom out what POTUS being responsible for deaths in Seal Team 6 in Afghanistan has to do with climate. Might have been a low news day.

 

[Dustydog]

Dusty
thanks it gives an Interesting take on climate issues, and not all “sceptical” in fact somewhat more supportive than I thought would be the case. I took the opportunity to read some back issues and for the life of me cannot fathom out what POTUS being responsible for deaths in Seal Team 6 in Afghanistan has to do with climate. Might have been a low news day.

Ha ha , Best we focus fighting ULEZ🤪🤪