You Don't learn, do you!!

[Ogre]

PLEASE. Slow down. There is nothing clever about hammering down a major road at 80mph with a caravan in tow.Yes, that's YOU, Mr "Know it all about towing" !!

I don't care if you have got a big 4 Wheel drive. I don't care if you've got the most stable outfit on wheels.

You are going TOO FAST if something catches you unawares. A sudden side-wind. A puncture, An object in the road, A situation where you have to change direction.

The family whose caravan was all over the M5 recently, holding up other traffic for ages will not have enjoyed their journey.

They will also not have enjoyed their hospital stay either. their van was taken away in so many pieces that it was barely recognisable. They were lucky to live. And all because 'DAD' was going TOO FAST!

We live down here in the West Country, and we are caravanners too. Please don't be the next casualties. Remember, that if you DO have an accident due to travelling at lunatic speeds, there will always be someone to tell the police what speed you were doing before the inevitable accident, so for a start, if you've been speeding, your insurance will NOT cover you, or your nice new van.

Enjoy your holiday by all means, but if you are coming down here, then please don't get all other caravanners a bad name by behaving like a PRAT!

 

[CliveV]

Yep! I have a lot of empathy with what Keith is saying. I usually trundle along at c. 65 mph on the M27 when going home imagine my surprize when a caravan and Volvo estate overtook me doing about 85mph a month or two ago.

I followed the outfit over the forest (I was going that way anyway) and was staggered to watch this driver basically intimidate other users out of his way on the speed reducing "chicane" things as you approach Sandy Balls Holiday camp which he went into.

He also ignorred the 40mph Forest speed limit as well. Little good it did him though as we all caught up with him.

Sadly it does seem that some leave their good sense at home when they take a break.

 

[Moonstone1]

I agree, we were travelling along a windy, hilly road at the weekend, doing around 60 to get uphill, when a unit passed us at around 70 mph, on the brow of a hill, on a tight bend (Grimston, near Malton). Left his brain at home I think - possibly thought that as he had a 4 x 4, he could pass us with ease, caught him up at Malton though, hadn't got far!

 

[VIP2006]

Yes - we have all seen them passing like demons - yes we have been buzzed by inconsiderate solo drivers who buzz you for a joke. All I can say I hope they keep their fingers crossed that what people warn them about doesn't happen especially if the have young lives on board. IMHO

 

[Roger_5040982]

At the other end of the scale, you have those that travel

at low speeds, on all types of road, either through, lack of experience ( I can accept that)., or under powered vehicle, selfishness, could not care less about the long queue behind, and the frustrated drivers, this too causes accidents. One caravanner I know never drives over

40 mph no matter what road types, he was even pulled over by the police, because of the enormous queue behind and reprimanded, but to no avail, he is 55 years with no disablities , experienced and an adequate tow car.

roger

 

[parker1158]

Hi All

Of course you are all right, if only there were no accidents ever, but sadly there always will be. For whatever reasons or circumstance. Week in week out casualty departments and hospitals will be full of people whose 'turn' it was (sobering thought isn't it). I always figure that no matter how careful you are one slight slip of judgement however small can land you in major problems. I would hope that the guy in a 4x4 and 8 metre van who passes me at 70 - 80 MPH isn't thinking 'well maybe I will survive this journey maybe I wont.We all take risks every day of our lives we can assess that risk and try to limit the danger but we can never totally remove it.

 

[Ogre]

⇨he is 55 years with no disablities , experienced and an adequate tow car.

I'd be tempted to say to him " If you're so experienced, then appreciate the fact that you are holding up traffic, and pull over occasionally".

That way, other drivers don't see caravans in such a bad light.

Speeding with a caravan though.....well to me you have to be extraordinarily stupid and selfish to put the lives of your family at risk by doing it.

It's too late when you, your caravan, and your posessions are all over the road, and all you can hear is emergency sirens.

Then, you look round for your children!!!

THINK !!

 

[Tina3]

I think that is a very poignant satement Keith,well said !

 

[chris_5068897]

To put a measure on this subject: 2 outfits travel for an hour, one at 60 the other at 70. The latter will be 10 miles further on, with the slower a mere 10 minutes behind. This is barely enough to leave car and have a p--. I know its obvious, but it does make you realise the extra risks and fuel consumption aren't worth the time saving

 

[MickC1]

Right, Devils advocate time.

There's a bit more to this than just speed. This seems to crop up quite often, that there's a magical speed limit, usually quoted at 55 mph, above which the outfit becomes unstable and is heading for disaster.

The speed at which outfits will become unstable will vary drastically. I usually travel at the legal limit where and when I feel that it's safe to do so. But like others I've been passed by other outfits, that seem to be rock steady. And for all I know probably are. On the other hand I've also passed outfits that are struggling at 40mph on an open motorway and swaying all over the place. So which one is safer? (I think that we've been here before).

The factors that must be taken into account are the limitations of the driver, the limitations and setup of the outfit, and the driving conditions.

You can't just put quote a blanket statement that everyone who travels 'at speed' is dangerous. Yes some are, but others aren't. And you won't be able to tell by just looking at an outfit as to which one is which. The problem occurs when one of the above limitations is exceeded or the conditions are ignored. Of course an accident at a higher speed is going to have have graver results than if if the vehicle was traveling slower. But then that could be said for any accident on the road.

Oh yes and of course there isn't such a thing as an accident. Every event that happens on the road is controllable in one way or another by a human decision. Whether it's a choice to overtake or not, or a choice to ignore a worn tyre or servicing report. Every one is avoidable. All down to limitations, conditions and choices.

Good grief, I think I'll end there, before it starts sounding like a quote from 'The Matrix'.

 

[VIP2006]

Mick and anyone reading this post SPEED KILLS

 

[mfc.dave]

Mick and anyone reading this post SPEED KILLS

As i have allways said i would rather be 30 minutes late than 30 years early.

 

[jacky3]

lets face it,we all know whats required as far as making sure our outfits are safe for towing,or we should do.

accidents can happen to anyone at anytime,the thing is NEVER GET COMPLACENT,NEVER THINK OH THAT'LL DO.

 

[CaptainKangaroo]

Has anyone ever proved that travelling above 60mph is dangerous? Why does the rest of the EU have a considerably higher limit for towing a van than the UK. Please note I do keep to the speed limts.

I will not be convinced until i see hard evidence conducted by a reputable body.

 

[jon_5062082]

Has anyone ever proved that travelling above 60mph is dangerous? Why does the rest of the EU have a considerably higher limit for towing a van than the UK. Please note I do keep to the speed limts.

I will not be convinced until i see hard evidence conducted by a reputable body.

agreed , weve been doing 70 solo in france and been overtaken by caravans many a time , never seen one on its side yet (not saying it never happens )

also noticed that our european friends very rarely tow with 4x4s normal family saloons/hatches etc are towing vans at these speeds

they seem to get on with it even with 3 bikes strapped to the back of the cararvan which is a bit of a no no here if you listen to people "in the know"

 

[Dusty1]

Has anyone ever proved that travelling above 60mph is dangerous? Why does the rest of the EU have a considerably higher limit for towing a van than the UK. Please note I do keep to the speed limts.

I will not be convinced until i see hard evidence conducted by a reputable body.

I have a rev limiter, also known as governor. She sits in the passenger seat next to me

 

[Lutz]

The rest of the EU? France and Belgium are the only countries in the EU with higher speed limits than the UK. Caravan chassis and brakes are designed for 100kph. Anything over that you do at your own risk and, quite frankly, I wouldn't want that responsibility to rest on my shoulders.

 

[VIP2006]

I have a rev limiter, also known as governor. She sits in the passenger seat next to me

Going slower is safer than going fast. it is also cheaper on your pocket and if you are caught speeding for 4 times then you will be going the slowest of all . IMHO

 

[MickC1]

Mick and anyone reading this post SPEED KILLS

No it doesn't.

If it did then how come F1 drivers can whiz around the track at 200 mph, and we can fly to the US at over 600mph? We can do this because the vehicle and driver are working within limitations and conditions. You can be killed by tripping over a kerb and banging your head, so should we not walk around at over 2mph? No of course not, we walk within our own limitations and take the conditions of the surroundings into account.

Can anyone show any documented evidence that shows that the majority of caravan accidents were caused by speed, rather than incorrect loading or bad driving?

 

[CliveV]

Speed in itself is not dangerous - if it was then trains and planes would have higher casualty rates.

What IS dangerous is excess speed for the conditions.

By conditions read weather, road surface and of course towing etc.

Considering the fuel tax we pay and road tax, why do you think about the recent reports that much of the road surface of the UK's roads are so sub-standard as to be dangerous.

In a recent case a father successfully sued a local council for not renovating a road on which his daughter died. It was proved that money earmarked for upgrading the road was not used for that purpose. This resulted in a surface that was like an ice rink when rained upon.

Even further reason for caution if we are in an area we do not know.

 

[Lutz]

The rest of the EU? France and Belgium are the only countries in the EU with higher speed limits than the UK. Caravan chassis and brakes are designed for 100kph. Anything over that you do at your own risk and, quite frankly, I wouldn't want that responsibility to rest on my shoulders.

Sorry, for what it's worth, I forgot Lithuania (110kph)

 

[Ogre]

Captain Kangaroo:

You write..."Has anyone ever proved that travelling above 60mph is dangerous?"

Probably not......but in the UK it IS illegal. Whether you like it or not!

But don't take my word for it if you're down here in Devon. Just don't be surprised when those "Speed Camera Partnership" letters start to arrive!

 

[CaptainKangaroo]

In reply to keith ........... read my posting it reads "I keep to speed limits", I have a completely clean licence and have done for the last 20 yrs, despite the stoopid speed cameras which keep the roads safe oooh for all of 30 metres.

 

[CaptainKangaroo]

In reply to Lutz ............... sorry mate you have got your facts completely and utterly wrong. You stated that caravan chassis and brakes are designed for a max of 100kmh .............codswallop! (thats english for BS) If that were true that would leave no safety factor at all, any engineer always works to a safety factor of X 10 as a minimum. No matter I thought I would check with the manufacturer of my new van (coachman) because your statement really concerned me. I told coachman your advice and that i wanted to tow in france at the permissable limit(120kmh) for an outfit. After much laughing from the techie about the 100kmh, he told me that "Technically there is no problem. However, I would advise caution at this speed, i.e. ensure loading is correct, tyre pressures are correct and tyres are monitored regularly, especially when running in hot conditions." Good advice.

100kmh design limit don't make me laugh too. Remember the world record for towing a caravan is held by a Porsche cayenne at 120 MPH!! this was towing a bailey with an alko chassis if i remember right?

A WORD OF WARNING to all thinking that towing at 80mph in France is ok .........it really isn't on unless you change your vans tyres because they will have a speed limit of ...........yep you guessed 80mph, so you will be pushing it.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

In reply to Lutz ............... sorry mate you have got your facts completely and utterly wrong. You stated that caravan chassis and brakes are designed for a max of 100kmh .............codswallop! (thats english for BS) If that were true that would leave no safety factor at all, any engineer always works to a safety factor of X 10 as a minimum. No matter I thought I would check with the manufacturer of my new van (coachman) because your statement really concerned me. I told coachman your advice and that i wanted to tow in france at the permissable limit(120kmh) for an outfit. After much laughing from the techie about the 100kmh, he told me that "Technically there is no problem. However, I would advise caution at this speed, i.e. ensure loading is correct, tyre pressures are correct and tyres are monitored regularly, especially when running in hot conditions." Good advice.

100kmh design limit don't make me laugh too. Remember the world record for towing a caravan is held by a Porsche cayenne at 120 MPH!! this was towing a bailey with an alko chassis if i remember right?

A WORD OF WARNING to all thinking that towing at 80mph in France is ok .........it really isn't on unless you change your vans tyres because they will have a speed limit of ...........yep you guessed 80mph, so you will be pushing it.

Skip,I think some tyres fitted to older vans were speed rated to 62 mph!