159 mph copper - Good sence prevails at last

[MONKEY1]

Yet again we seem to have got our priorities horribly wrong AGAIN - the policeman in question has been tried once and NOT convicted so yet again the CPS want to waste a huge amount of public money bringing a case against one individual, in the mean time every police officer in the UK will say.Is my boss - ultimately the Chief Constable going to back me. So who benefits from another trial you?, me? no the opportunist thief yes !! As the massive amount of man hours and management time this is going to take up.

Last year my car was hit last year by an uninsured lorry driver - thanks to him my less than 3 year old Renault Scenic was written off ! This is what the driver got from the court

Diving without insurance -

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Yet again we seem to have got our priorities horribly wrong AGAIN - the policeman in question has been tried once and NOT convicted so yet again the CPS want to waste a huge amount of public money bringing a case against one individual, in the mean time every police officer in the UK will say.Is my boss - ultimately the Chief Constable going to back me. So who benefits from another trial you?, me? no the opportunist thief yes !! As the massive amount of man hours and management time this is going to take up.

Last year my car was hit last year by an uninsured lorry driver - thanks to him my less than 3 year old Renault Scenic was written off ! This is what the driver got from the court

Diving without insurance -

 

[colin(bridgend)]

The law at present is such that should any person in the emergency services be breaking the law whether they be on a call out or otherwise they could be charged with an offence. To say that this police man should be excused his rather stupid action is no excuse.

Monkey I can sympathise with you in your particular instance as I once had a car written off through no fault of my own but lost my maximum no claims and was very annoyed to say the least. However nowadays I believe the vehicle can be confiscated and crushed should there be no insurance, tax or MOT. This will not stop the joy rider though from going out in an uninsured vehicle. A typical case the other day was where four children were killed whilst riding in a stolen Fiesta. The driver should be sent to prison for the use of this vehicle, driving without insurance and in my opinion murder as she knew full well what she was doing. The Middle Eastern countries have the right approach where the penalty is made to fit the crime.

There is also a sharp rise of a manslaughter verdict where murder has actually taken place. I cannot understand for the life of me where three teanagers rob and kill an eldery woman for money for spending on themselves and then only be convicted of manslaughter. Surely to God this was premeditated and should have been murder. This country is becoming far too soft on serious crime but going over the top for petty crimes such as verbal or written insults against another person(s). The PC brigade strikes again.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am delighted that this thread has generated such a wide range of responses,

As the instigator, it has been interesting to see it develop. Thank you all for maintaining a relatively well-mannered correspondence.

I understand that there is a growing realisation in Police and safety circles that high speed pursuits are best avoided, and a conscious decision should be taken not to rise to the bait of criminal drivers who do choose to speed excessively.

The reasoning is: If a driver is aware that he/she is being tailed at high speed, the criminal (by virtue of speeding) is more likely to take additional risks which they may not be capable of controlling and thus result in an incident which may injure more people. Also it must be recognised that even highly trained drivers are more susceptible to making mistakes when involved in high-speed pursuits, and so the use of such tactics should be avoided.

With the continuing increase in CCTV across towns cities and motorways, and the strategic positioning of police vehicles, the progress and destination of many of these criminals can be tracked. The increased use of police spotter planes/helicopters also helps to defuse the potential for high-speed pursuits and the carnage that can result.

If pursuit driving is no longer required, then the only high speed driving would be to get to an incident as quickly as reasonably possible - but that should not need such high speeds such as those demonstrated by this officer.

Can anyone explain why the police or any other authority needs such ridiculously high speeds in this country?

 

[CliveV]

For once I am in two minds on this subject (believe me that dose not happen that often) This is due to not enough information being available at this time.

A very good client of mine was widowed by a lorry driver transporting iron bars whilst his licence was revoked due to previous convictions - the company that employed this driver was found guilty of gross negligence and many

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Clive - Soth Wales Police have a very good driving school and all drivers of the high performance police cars are trained by senior traffic police personnel. Many times there would be unmarked police cars on the road with four members of the force travelling at high speeds, however the cars would be marked as Driver Under Instruction and the three trainees would each have a stint at the wheel and also learn from each other as well as the instructor. The fire service have a similar system in this area. I am afraid I cannot speake for the ambulance service as I have had no knowledge of theuir training. The Mountain Rescue Teams and H.M.Coastgaurds also have emergency vehicles which are rapid response vehicles and likewise these drivers are similarly trained.

However they are both verbally told and given written warnings prior to them commencing their duties in these vehicles that should an accident occurr whilst they are on a shout that they could be open to prosecution.

 

[MONKEY1]

The law at present is such that should any person in the emergency services be breaking the law whether they be on a call out or otherwise they could be charged with an offence. To say that this police man should be excused his rather stupid action is no excuse.

Monkey I can sympathise with you in your particular instance as I once had a car written off through no fault of my own but lost my maximum no claims and was very annoyed to say the least. However nowadays I believe the vehicle can be confiscated and crushed should there be no insurance, tax or MOT. This will not stop the joy rider though from going out in an uninsured vehicle. A typical case the other day was where four children were killed whilst riding in a stolen Fiesta. The driver should be sent to prison for the use of this vehicle, driving without insurance and in my opinion murder as she knew full well what she was doing. The Middle Eastern countries have the right approach where the penalty is made to fit the crime.

There is also a sharp rise of a manslaughter verdict where murder has actually taken place. I cannot understand for the life of me where three teanagers rob and kill an eldery woman for money for spending on themselves and then only be convicted of manslaughter. Surely to God this was premeditated and should have been murder. This country is becoming far too soft on serious crime but going over the top for petty crimes such as verbal or written insults against another person(s). The PC brigade strikes again.

Sadly Colin,

I think threat and fact are very different, I find it really frustrating that this guy and his so call company with a flashy yellow pages advert are still driving around. There needs to be more "do" rather than "can do"

MH

 

[cris_408518]

I am well aware that innocent people get killed and families are ruined by road deaths.

Surely you all realise that other actions in life cost other innocent lives and ruin lives and leave families devastated.

What ever this silly copper did be it in a 30,50 or 70 limit, he was a trained driver and maybe something else was behind him becoming notorious in the in the press.

Everybody jumping and screaming about it will acheive what exactly?

I'm not surprised LordB's boss would not have supported him in a similar case, some volunteer do gooder from the gentry running up brownie points as an ambulance service volunteer robbing somebody of a job ;-)

With the police guys case, there seems to have been some poor rules and allthough potentially he could have killed himself and others so could many other motorists I've seen today on the M25,M2 and M4. This includes some twonk with an Avondale and a Passat with the front end pointing skywards, no stabiliser and his bike rack straps dragging on the road.

As his van snaked about in a weave only to be followed by three more as he upped his speed again. I then got the V sign when I tried to make him aware that he was likely to lose his bikes as he headed for the M40. Once again A police car passed the guy without a glance, but in the heavy traffic he could easily have caused more deaths than our speeding copper. So should he not make the headlines for the potential of his actions? Maybe a court case or two as well!

As said, you can buy high performance vehicles for a song, and only John seems to have picked up on my thread on the validity of high speed persuit. Why do the police need these tools.

If I were to take the 550 Maranello on the road or the Mitsubishi I drove last week, had brain fade and raced around busy roads at 100mph would you want pc plod in hot persuit if you or your family members were around.

Put the tools out there and people will use them, crying out at the horrors of what you've seen will not stop a heavy right foot!

My first vehicle was a 200cc lambretta (and I never fell off Lord B), my dad and mum both had bikes so they couldn't really stop me. And I doubt that they loved me any less than Lord B his son.

There was nothing macho about riding it or my early bikes, it was financially forced, I couldn't afford a car and to do my job I needed transport and the Lambretta was cheap transport.

My best friend who lives in the States now had the same treatment from his parents as Lord B with his son, his peer group split into bikers and non bikers. The non bikers turned to drugs and crime, my friend after a while decided that theft was his only way out of trouble and stole truck fuel to fund buying his bike to his parents horror, the bike led him into work and good legal behaviour, he runs an IT business and Preperty business in the States. One of his many biker friends was killed in a car crash and all bar a couple out of about 14 of the non bikers are dead from drug related problems and the other two at 45 or 46 will never work again.

Your only chance of cutting very high speed is to not sell, or restrict the tools.

I detect a few drinkers on this forum and no doubt a few of you take a few prescription pills apart from anything else.

I've driven very very fast in the past.Now I don't have bad days after booze as I've been virtually Tee Total for over thirty years, I dont ever take pills prescription or others and I have never taken any drugs. I work for myself as it avoids stress and pressure. If I feel like I'm having a bad day I don't work and I don't drive.

I've been open about past deeds and the inference is that I am some speed freak leper (I mean that in a friendly way) that's a totally irresponsible potential danger to myself and others.

Sit back and think about what you drink and how you all feel and about the guy you know who pops a few valium or puffs the odd sociable spliff or the lady city exec who snorts the odd line of coke.

I could ramble on a bit more, but can you all sit back happy that you and all you know are really that much safer than the speeding copper when ever you get behind the wheel.

Like I said, even for you in the emergency services. Stones and Glass houses comes to mind when these things crop up ;-)

 

[Tina3]

I am well aware that innocent people get killed and families are ruined by road deaths.

Surely you all realise that other actions in life cost other innocent lives and ruin lives and leave families devastated.

What ever this silly copper did be it in a 30,50 or 70 limit, he was a trained driver and maybe something else was behind him becoming notorious in the in the press.

Everybody jumping and screaming about it will acheive what exactly?

I'm not surprised LordB's boss would not have supported him in a similar case, some volunteer do gooder from the gentry running up brownie points as an ambulance service volunteer robbing somebody of a job ;-)

With the police guys case, there seems to have been some poor rules and allthough potentially he could have killed himself and others so could many other motorists I've seen today on the M25,M2 and M4. This includes some twonk with an Avondale and a Passat with the front end pointing skywards, no stabiliser and his bike rack straps dragging on the road.

As his van snaked about in a weave only to be followed by three more as he upped his speed again. I then got the V sign when I tried to make him aware that he was likely to lose his bikes as he headed for the M40. Once again A police car passed the guy without a glance, but in the heavy traffic he could easily have caused more deaths than our speeding copper. So should he not make the headlines for the potential of his actions? Maybe a court case or two as well!

As said, you can buy high performance vehicles for a song, and only John seems to have picked up on my thread on the validity of high speed persuit. Why do the police need these tools.

If I were to take the 550 Maranello on the road or the Mitsubishi I drove last week, had brain fade and raced around busy roads at 100mph would you want pc plod in hot persuit if you or your family members were around.

Put the tools out there and people will use them, crying out at the horrors of what you've seen will not stop a heavy right foot!

My first vehicle was a 200cc lambretta (and I never fell off Lord B), my dad and mum both had bikes so they couldn't really stop me. And I doubt that they loved me any less than Lord B his son.

There was nothing macho about riding it or my early bikes, it was financially forced, I couldn't afford a car and to do my job I needed transport and the Lambretta was cheap transport.

My best friend who lives in the States now had the same treatment from his parents as Lord B with his son, his peer group split into bikers and non bikers. The non bikers turned to drugs and crime, my friend after a while decided that theft was his only way out of trouble and stole truck fuel to fund buying his bike to his parents horror, the bike led him into work and good legal behaviour, he runs an IT business and Preperty business in the States. One of his many biker friends was killed in a car crash and all bar a couple out of about 14 of the non bikers are dead from drug related problems and the other two at 45 or 46 will never work again.

Your only chance of cutting very high speed is to not sell, or restrict the tools.

I detect a few drinkers on this forum and no doubt a few of you take a few prescription pills apart from anything else.

I've driven very very fast in the past.Now I don't have bad days after booze as I've been virtually Tee Total for over thirty years, I dont ever take pills prescription or others and I have never taken any drugs. I work for myself as it avoids stress and pressure. If I feel like I'm having a bad day I don't work and I don't drive.

I've been open about past deeds and the inference is that I am some speed freak leper (I mean that in a friendly way) that's a totally irresponsible potential danger to myself and others.

Sit back and think about what you drink and how you all feel and about the guy you know who pops a few valium or puffs the odd sociable spliff or the lady city exec who snorts the odd line of coke.

I could ramble on a bit more, but can you all sit back happy that you and all you know are really that much safer than the speeding copper when ever you get behind the wheel.

Like I said, even for you in the emergency services. Stones and Glass houses comes to mind when these things crop up ;-)

Hi cris

everything you said in your above statement is correct,we will never rid the streets of speeding a******es, but I take offence to your last statement,again saying we in glass houses should not throw stones !! I for one DO NOT drink and drive, DO NOT snort the odd line of coke , i have been trained in defencive driving, and emergency driving, I repeat I can throw stones.

Clive V ,yes the family are willing that organ to thier family as will be natural, but to risk a)the driver b) other road users c) pedestrians d) bike riders etc..etc...etc.. is not viable and we are NEVER in the service forced to drive at speed.

Tina x

 

[cris_408518]

Tina.

I think you have missed the point slightly. Not drinking and driving when over the limit is one thing, but not being 100% because you had a "heavy weekend" or whatever is an every day occurance for many who would aim scorn at others.

Even an argument or disagreement with a partner or work colleaugue can effect the way you drive, their are so many factors and all to many seek to judge before they self annalyse their own actions!

I to have passed advanced defensive driving courses for 2 and 4 wheels and can still instruct bikers to advanced police Road Craft levels I seek not to judge to much, I am a little more open minded.

We must t agree to differ I think

 

[sparkes]

I have to agree with Cris on the comments of mood and heavy weekends.

2 things I have learnt is that I now never drink more than 2 shandys in case I have to drive the next day and I never go out on my bikes if I am in any kind of wound up state. Several of my frinds have been injured or killed while riding after an argument or had somthing wind them up badly.

I am lucky as I ride motorcycles to relax, I don't have to use them to commute or everyday. Plus, Biking is better when you are in a good mood, the weather is warm and your wife is holding on tight

 

[cris_408518]

Having played the ball to a stupid driver using his car to bat me and my bike you get a differnet perspective on your mortality.

If everyone had to ride a bike before they were let loose in a car the roads would be a safer place.

Bikes Rock!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Having played the ball to a stupid driver using his car to bat me and my bike you get a differnet perspective on your mortality.

If everyone had to ride a bike before they were let loose in a car the roads would be a safer place.

Bikes Rock!

.... if they never rocked perhaps the riders would stay on them ;O)

 

[cris_408518]

If they don't rock you do fall off, that's where you failed L0rd B ;-)

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Ladies and Gentlemen there was enough bad feelings shown last night to last a life time. Would it be too much to ask for harmony on this site and on certain issues agree to disagree without upsetting the apple cart again.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Ladies and Gentlemen there was enough bad feelings shown last night to last a life time. Would it be too much to ask for harmony on this site and on certain issues agree to disagree without upsetting the apple cart again.

No bad feelings as I can see Colin, only harmless banter between those who disagree ;O)

 

[Guest]

I am probably naive, but why do we have these very fast bikes/cars etc? The roads obviously are not able to handle them, and the people driving them don't get to their destinations any faster. Is this part of an inverted libido factor I ask? I accept that having vehicles that can do 150mph will no doubt encourage some idiot to try and see if he/she can achieve that speed, but for what purpose? They tell me it can be used as a sex alternative, but personally I prefer the real thing.

As far as the Police and high speed chases are concerned, don't they have devices that fit across the road and deflate all the tyres. I gather they can stop any vehicle very rapidly. Living in a large city I see lots of emergency vehicles flying about every day with sirens etc , however realistically, they almost never ever exceed 50-60 mph, mainly because it is physically impossible to do so. Any chase that does occur usually ends fairly quickly with the presence of a lampost/tree/wall/other vehicle/bus etc proving to be an immoveable object, or more tragically, another human being. Motorways should be even easier because there ain't anywhere else to go.

Some of these drivers have been watching too many old American 'cops and robbers' movies, and we all know they are based on pure fiction.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

I am probably naive, but why do we have these very fast bikes/cars etc? The roads obviously are not able to handle them, and the people driving them don't get to their destinations any faster. Is this part of an inverted libido factor I ask? I accept that having vehicles that can do 150mph will no doubt encourage some idiot to try and see if he/she can achieve that speed, but for what purpose? They tell me it can be used as a sex alternative, but personally I prefer the real thing.

As far as the Police and high speed chases are concerned, don't they have devices that fit across the road and deflate all the tyres. I gather they can stop any vehicle very rapidly. Living in a large city I see lots of emergency vehicles flying about every day with sirens etc , however realistically, they almost never ever exceed 50-60 mph, mainly because it is physically impossible to do so. Any chase that does occur usually ends fairly quickly with the presence of a lampost/tree/wall/other vehicle/bus etc proving to be an immoveable object, or more tragically, another human being. Motorways should be even easier because there ain't anywhere else to go.

Some of these drivers have been watching too many old American 'cops and robbers' movies, and we all know they are based on pure fiction.

Hi Scotch Lad - first of all good luck for tomorrow afternoon. Regarding your comment for fast cars I have often thought the very same thing. Why on earth is there need to travel at such rediclous speeds - the slightest problem eg burst tyre and you would never stand a chance. In my opinion 70mph is quite fast enough for the state of our roads, including our motorways. If they can fit speed restricters to commercial vehicles why not fit them to cars. Alternatively have a tacho graph similar to commercial vehicles where it would be possible to assess the speed of the vehicle. This in my opinion is not a case of "big brother" spying on you but sound common sense. Rather than design a car for speed would it be more beneficial to design it for safety and economy to satisfy the Green issues and global warming.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Ladies and Gentlemen there was enough bad feelings shown last night to last a life time. Would it be too much to ask for harmony on this site and on certain issues agree to disagree without upsetting the apple cart again.

Lord B after last night are we allowed to disagree with one and another. I could get annoyed again if someone gets my back up. Especially after this afternoon so watch out every one the Welsh Dragon roars again.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Colin (of Bridgend)'s comment has brought to mind a twist to the topic. It has been suggested elsewhere on this forum that since modern cars have improved handling and brakes over their predecessor and it is generally accepted that survivability during an impact is improved, that national speed limits could 'safely' be increased.

Well may I suggest an alternative strategy? Whilst survivability has improved some injuries and fatalities still occur. So surely we should be making further improvements at our current speeds until we have eradicated deaths and injuries, and only then consider allowing higher speeds.

has raised an intersting point.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

John since reading another posting here on a different topic another thought has occurred to me. Should the speed of the car be restricted in the interest of both safety and economy the cost to the emergency services should be reduced as the accidents should not be so severe and requireing major medical aid. This would have a knock on effect on the spiraling costs of the various services whereby hopefully their costs would be reduced.

 

[cris_408518]

Scotch Lad and Colin. Tell me why some climb mountains, bungy jump,parachute, hit little white balls or scream and go wild at 22 guys kicking a ball about.

Never found a bike or a car that is enywhere near as good as sex, personaly I just think it an easy way to say it was really good.

I have raced aroung in fast boats and yachts and been diving, but I love bikes and cars.

Sat at 100 mph in clean air on open tarmac and turning the throttle as a "shovel" hits your back and you rocket past 140 and 150 mph is just freedom and exhileration, I can't imagine that rowing the atlantic or hanging on Everest can do much for you.

Yeah it is a risk, but so is crossing the road.

As for 70 mph and getting there, I know a guy that is a bit crazy, he left Nice at 4.15 pm and was at the Calais ferry port for the 1.15 am ferry. Now just throw in that he had to stop to pay the tolls attend to nature and fuel up 6 or 7 times.

I know the people he was with in Nice and who saw him at Calais as well as seeing his ferry ticket and receipts.

When we asked about speed he was not sure as on some down hill runs the speedo got eratic at 185mph. I don't approve, but the guy is still doing this sort of thing on regular runs all over europe nearly 10 years on from the proven event. He has been doing it persuing his hobby for about 30 years in total. He doesn't boast or advertise the facts and you would never judge the guy was like it if you met him.

Driving license is still clean and his only accidents have been when he's been hit on a race track before he retired from competition.

Now I admit to some very high speed driving in the past, but don't believe that fast road users don't get anywhere faster. Sometimes in traffic it's a no no, but plenty will prove you wrong. Restriction is the only way to stop it as plenty fiddle tacho's.

And you seem to agree with me that the police have other safer ways to stop speeding vehicles.

 

[Tina3]

Tina.

I think you have missed the point slightly. Not drinking and driving when over the limit is one thing, but not being 100% because you had a "heavy weekend" or whatever is an every day occurance for many who would aim scorn at others.

Even an argument or disagreement with a partner or work colleaugue can effect the way you drive, their are so many factors and all to many seek to judge before they self annalyse their own actions!

I to have passed advanced defensive driving courses for 2 and 4 wheels and can still instruct bikers to advanced police Road Craft levels I seek not to judge to much, I am a little more open minded.

We must t agree to differ I think

Hi cris,thanks for the debate ,I will always agree to disagre,its what makes the world so interesting,happy travels,

Tina x

 

[Tina3]

Ladies and Gentlemen there was enough bad feelings shown last night to last a life time. Would it be too much to ask for harmony on this site and on certain issues agree to disagree without upsetting the apple cart again.

Hi Colin

no bad feelings from me to cris or anyone else,have enjoyed bantering with him and have not(intentionally) been malicious I dont think,hope he agrees !

Tina x

 

[Tina3]

Scotch Lad and Colin. Tell me why some climb mountains, bungy jump,parachute, hit little white balls or scream and go wild at 22 guys kicking a ball about.

Never found a bike or a car that is enywhere near as good as sex, personaly I just think it an easy way to say it was really good.

I have raced aroung in fast boats and yachts and been diving, but I love bikes and cars.

Sat at 100 mph in clean air on open tarmac and turning the throttle as a "shovel" hits your back and you rocket past 140 and 150 mph is just freedom and exhileration, I can't imagine that rowing the atlantic or hanging on Everest can do much for you.

Yeah it is a risk, but so is crossing the road.

As for 70 mph and getting there, I know a guy that is a bit crazy, he left Nice at 4.15 pm and was at the Calais ferry port for the 1.15 am ferry. Now just throw in that he had to stop to pay the tolls attend to nature and fuel up 6 or 7 times.

I know the people he was with in Nice and who saw him at Calais as well as seeing his ferry ticket and receipts.

When we asked about speed he was not sure as on some down hill runs the speedo got eratic at 185mph. I don't approve, but the guy is still doing this sort of thing on regular runs all over europe nearly 10 years on from the proven event. He has been doing it persuing his hobby for about 30 years in total. He doesn't boast or advertise the facts and you would never judge the guy was like it if you met him.

Driving license is still clean and his only accidents have been when he's been hit on a race track before he retired from competition.

Now I admit to some very high speed driving in the past, but don't believe that fast road users don't get anywhere faster. Sometimes in traffic it's a no no, but plenty will prove you wrong. Restriction is the only way to stop it as plenty fiddle tacho's.

And you seem to agree with me that the police have other safer ways to stop speeding vehicles.

Hi cris

have to agree with you on the adrenalin rush, have you done RITA at alton towers yet?? you sound like the kind person that'd like that one !