159 mph copper - Good sence prevails at last

[ProfJohnL]

There was so much what I believe was justified outcry when the police man " tested" his new car at speeds of up to 159 mph on public roads and was acquitted, he did not display blue lights or sirens and was not responding to an emergency situation.

I personally can find no justification for the officer's behaviour, which for any other member of the public would have resulted in at least a heavy fine and probably a significant ban.

The police have access to private tracks where driving skills can be taught and developed where the potential risk of injury to other road users is controlled.

I have no personal animosity toward the officer, but I am sure it is right that this action should be held to account, and that if he was acting with the instruction and knowledge of his senior officers, that they are also brought to book.

Contrast this episode with the ambulance driver who was fined for speeding whilst delivering a donor organ where time was of the essence. He would have been acquitted if he had a patient on board.

 

[cris_408518]

All though against the law, the guy was showing that he is human like the rest of us.

I have driven at over 40 mph faster on public roads than the officer, having assesed the risks I still consider that the risks taken some years ago were some what minimal.

The guy is going to retrial so we need to wait and see what happens.

If the guy had been on an emergency shout and hit those speeds and higher. He would be under pressure and stress, track driving can never be klike road conditions.

There seem to be near hysteria levels over this guys quite natural action.

 

[PaulA3]

If I recall correctly it was his Police collegues who reported him after seeing the incar video. I have a feeling that theres a bit more to this officer than just this incident, for his collegues to take this action.

 

[rayc]

The actions of the Policeman did not break any police rules. He had immunity from breaking the speed limit if he could show that he was doing so in the execution of his duty.

The person who caused this problem was the Chief Constable of West Mercia Police. As the Recorder at his original trial said' it is ironic that the people prosecuting this man are the same people who provided the high speed vehicle and trained him to drive at these speeds. He castigated the Police for not having a procedure in place for 'when and how a pursuit driver could practice his high speed skill on the highway.'

This Policeman is paying the price of the draconian enforcement of motorists who are a few miles over the speed limit. The actions of the Police in supporting the camera partnerships has caused a major lack of trust between the public and the Police.

 

[cris_408518]

Jealousy ;-)

 

[Dave_5040181]

All though against the law, the guy was showing that he is human like the rest of us.

I have driven at over 40 mph faster on public roads than the officer, having assesed the risks I still consider that the risks taken some years ago were some what minimal.

The guy is going to retrial so we need to wait and see what happens.

If the guy had been on an emergency shout and hit those speeds and higher. He would be under pressure and stress, track driving can never be klike road conditions.

There seem to be near hysteria levels over this guys quite natural action.

What can travel at 199 mph ?

 

[Dave_5040181]

What can travel at 199 mph ?

Whats orange and travels at 199 mph ?...An E type carrot.

 

[cris_408518]

All though against the law, the guy was showing that he is human like the rest of us.

I have driven at over 40 mph faster on public roads than the officer, having assesed the risks I still consider that the risks taken some years ago were some what minimal.

The guy is going to retrial so we need to wait and see what happens.

If the guy had been on an emergency shout and hit those speeds and higher. He would be under pressure and stress, track driving can never be klike road conditions.

There seem to be near hysteria levels over this guys quite natural action.

Suzuki Hyabusa with a little tuning!

 

[Tina3]

Hi ALL

I doubt if the ambulance had a patient on board he would of been aquitted at 70mph never mind 159 !!! The general rule is on an emergency 20mph over the speed limit for that road is "acceptable" but NOT rule,anything over and its just as liable for dangerous driving,I also see NO excuse for this officers speed apart from the attitide who's gonna stop me and a bit of red mist,he's supposed to be an example to all the young hotheads out there! He should be seen to be punished !

 

[Tina3]

The actions of the Policeman did not break any police rules. He had immunity from breaking the speed limit if he could show that he was doing so in the execution of his duty.

The person who caused this problem was the Chief Constable of West Mercia Police. As the Recorder at his original trial said' it is ironic that the people prosecuting this man are the same people who provided the high speed vehicle and trained him to drive at these speeds. He castigated the Police for not having a procedure in place for 'when and how a pursuit driver could practice his high speed skill on the highway.'

This Policeman is paying the price of the draconian enforcement of motorists who are a few miles over the speed limit. The actions of the Police in supporting the camera partnerships has caused a major lack of trust between the public and the Police.

But he wasnt executing his duty,i.e on an emergency,there are very few emergencys that call for that speed !.

 

[Rayc1]

Tina, I think you will find that he was carrying out his duties as laid down by West Mercia Police at that time. They had no procedure in place to define when a 1st class driver could exceed the speed limit and under what circumstances. He was not charged with exceeding the speed limit but with dangerous driving of which there was no evidence other than he drove at the speeds he did. As long as he could prove he was on duty he had broken no rules, and that is why no disciplinary actions were taken against him. The West Mercia police were castigated for that at the original trial and also for not having a process for authorising high speed testing on public roads. That has changed now and rules have been brought in detailing the speeds and authorities required.

I agree with you about his speed which exceeded 80mph in a 30 limit. For all of his talk of 'testing a new car to understand its capabilities' he was having a good time and quite happy to exceed double the limit mere mortals would be prosecuted for.

 

[Tina3]

Hi rayc

I appreciate what you are saying,but find it incredible that during this chaps training at no point was he informed of any "rules" basically he's got off on the fact that"nobody told him not too" ! this doesnt make it right.On a two week driving course,taken incidentally from the police roadcraft training course,an ambulance driver is consistantly told,go way over the speed limit and expect to be prosecuted.I could not climb in a new ambulance and drive at that speed "to see what it felt like"(it wouldnt go that fast anyway)1st class driver he may be but at that speed even if he were to react immediately it wouldnt be fast enough to avoid a disaster which could easily happen regardless of wether the road was clear "at that time" at 159mph things can change rapidly ! He was reckless and out of order and has got off on a loophole !.I hope this post does'nt sound antagonistic in anyway rayc! just my opinion !

Tina

 

[Vicky_5078445]

If he felt he needed to familiarise himself with this new high speed car, he should have go to Silverstone - F1 cars manage to reach getter speeds than his on the track!

I'd like to know what his stopping distance would needed to have been at 159mph? It must have been a huge distance & he probably couldn't have stopped even if he'd had to!

I wouldn't be a police officer for a gift, I think they have a really tough job, but they are employed to uphold & represent the law of the land not flout it.

 

[rayc]

Hi rayc

I appreciate what you are saying,but find it incredible that during this chaps training at no point was he informed of any "rules" basically he's got off on the fact that"nobody told him not too" ! this doesnt make it right.On a two week driving course,taken incidentally from the police roadcraft training course,an ambulance driver is consistantly told,go way over the speed limit and expect to be prosecuted.I could not climb in a new ambulance and drive at that speed "to see what it felt like"(it wouldnt go that fast anyway)1st class driver he may be but at that speed even if he were to react immediately it wouldnt be fast enough to avoid a disaster which could easily happen regardless of wether the road was clear "at that time" at 159mph things can change rapidly ! He was reckless and out of order and has got off on a loophole !.I hope this post does'nt sound antagonistic in anyway rayc! just my opinion !

Tina

Tina, I agree with you so don't find your post antagonistic in any way. I was just pointing out that he wasn't breaking any police 'rules' when he did what he did. That was possibly the most worrying thing about it.

 

[cris_408518]

I don't believe that this guy is the only officil type with a powefull set of wheels that does not try it out. And Plenty like me have cars and bikes that will easily exceed those speeds and many do so every day of the year I guess.

Trusting people to have a moderate throttle foot or hand is a joke, if you want to curb very high speed you need to ban the sales of the machinery. I have never owned a vehicle that I have not briefly had a top speed on public roads and I know for a fact that many others are the same.

Drugs wreck lives as do car crashes! Yet many want to legalise drugs.

 

[parker1158]

I have just picked up three points and a sixty quid fine for doing a neck snapping 34 in a 30 zone. If I was deemed to be that much of a threat to others on the road (or paths) at gone midnight on a Sunday then someone doing that speed unnecessarily (in my opinion) should have the book thrown at them.

 

[AnnM1]

Well said Tina. I fully agree with your sentiments. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever for the police officer to take out a car (at any time day or night) and drive at such speed unless in pursuit of a villain. Even then he wouldn't have been expected to drive at such high speed! He wasn't in pursuit of anything only his own ego. He was very fortunate that he didn't cause an accident. I also understand that he was caught driving through a town centre at speeds over 90 miles an hour. What did he think he was doing? I congratulate the judges who have had the common sense to come out 'against' in this case.

 

[Tina3]

Hi rayc

I appreciate what you are saying,but find it incredible that during this chaps training at no point was he informed of any "rules" basically he's got off on the fact that"nobody told him not too" ! this doesnt make it right.On a two week driving course,taken incidentally from the police roadcraft training course,an ambulance driver is consistantly told,go way over the speed limit and expect to be prosecuted.I could not climb in a new ambulance and drive at that speed "to see what it felt like"(it wouldnt go that fast anyway)1st class driver he may be but at that speed even if he were to react immediately it wouldnt be fast enough to avoid a disaster which could easily happen regardless of wether the road was clear "at that time" at 159mph things can change rapidly ! He was reckless and out of order and has got off on a loophole !.I hope this post does'nt sound antagonistic in anyway rayc! just my opinion !

Tina

Thanks rayc,its hard to write how angry you are about a topic without it sounding like its aimed at a person ! Martyns post says it all,justice has gone awol!!!Tina

 

[Tina3]

Hi Ann

I didnt know about the town centre bit, what a plonker,an officer in uniform,disgraceful! He should be demoted to a beat bobby! Tinax

 

[LMH]

Cris

'track driving can never be like road conditions'.

I'm in the emergency services and our fire officers (Station Officers and above, don't do EFAD (high speed driver training for cars, not fire appliances) on tracks, they undertake the training on everyday roads and motorways under a blue light with the siren on so they will have a good idea of handling etc in different types of conditions and speeds.

Not sure how the police train their drivers, so can't comment on that but I would have thought they used roads and motorways too rather than tracks.

If you are driving at over 40mph faster than the Officer concerned, you are a danger and a menace to other road users, pedestrians and the emergency services. I'd love to take you to an rtc. I'm sure if you saw the consequences of speed, you might think twice in future. Sorry to preach but doing that sort of high speed kills whether you have a supercar or not.

Regards.

Lisa

 

[AnnM1]

I Tina, it was reported he had been seen driving through town in excess of 90 mph on a TV news broadcast. I don't think he was in uniform, it was reported he was driving in an 'unmarked' police car - I suspect he would have been in 'civilian' clothes! No doubt forum members will correct me if I am wrong.

 

[rayc]

Ann, The PC was a Traffic Policeman [a class 1 driver - refered to by the judge in his first trial as the 'creme del a creme' of drivers]. He was on duty and driving an unmarked traffic patrol car. He was wearing his uniform and was going about his duties.

I have got no sympathy with him but remember he wasn't breaking any Police rules that were in force at the time. This has since been changed and in West Mercia only Traffic Policemen can now exceed the limit, and then only by 20mph, with a maximum of 120mph in exceptional circumstances.

 

[cris_408518]

Lisa. I did say that I have driven on public roads at 200+ mph (only just) and I said that track driving can never replicate road driving.

If a police officer is given a 160 mph tool hopefully he is trained and has a valid reason for having that ammount of speed available to him.

If he was driving in town, I agree that to be crazy.

I have witnessed serious RTA's and had people shot to death in front of me as well walking through the blood af a friend who had over seventy bullets pumped into him.

But we are all "bullet proof" until hit by one shall we say.

I have also been on track days attended by police and ambulance service drivers who admitted riding at over 160 mph on public roads. I also know other car drivers in these services who take the same risks.

Of course on the record they maake the same style statement as you, and don't get me started on drink driving because there are plenty who should know better that break that law as well.

What I do now and what I did in the past differs, and I also did 200+ legally!

As you say the horrors of a speed related RTA are not pretty, but death by many other causes is not pretty either.

If it such a big problem why allow vehicles on the road without some sort of restrictor that is sealed and can't be tampered with.

I have also been trained in high speed car and bike driving to instructor levels and have also raced.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

cris I would love to know what Ambulance Trust those people drove for, maybe it was for HeliMed, the Air Ambulance. In all the years I worked for the ambulance service (up to 2 years ago) we never had any vehicle that would reach those speeds. All ambulances were governed to 90 m.p.h. and even the First Responders cars were governed. Every month our H.Q. had nice photos of ambulances going through speed cameras which had to be verified whether or not we were on an emergency, if not you got done like everyone else. Regarding the copper I think ray c was near the truth. If his own colleagues reported him there was an hidden agenda.

 

[cris_408518]

Lord B.

I think you've left your pecs off;-) I never said these people drive at that speed in their works vehicles. I'm talking about their own vehicles!!!!!!