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1991 Dangerous Dogs Act.

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Can't reply to your response proper cris as I'm a bit upset.

The witch hunt has started with my breed now. Took Diesel (aka Gaylord) out this morning (on his lead) and was verbally abused by a man and a woman. Their tirade of abuse was relentless and totally uncalled for.

My lovely little dog (whom I believe should be an ambasador for the breed) was verbally abused too.

People on here who know me, know I can stand my ground but I honestly don't believe we deserved that.

Lisa
Lisa i am so sorry to hear what you`ve just been through.

I was lucky enough not to have any of that after the Rottweilers incedent but i know of many that did including one woman who was egged.

Please ignore them as it`s pure ignorance. Why they take something that happened out on innocent people is beyond me and makes me so angry. Just remember they`re a minority and there are lots of us who love your breed.

Thinking of you. Chin up ;)

Jackie x
 
Jan 19, 2008
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Yet again i`m lost for words and so angry how this could of been allowed to happen. Don`t people have a brain. Why do people have this type of dog when they have no idea how to bring it up properly. But i suppose that`s pretty obvious with "some" which leads me to my next bit ;)

We have a lot of talk here about dangerous breeds and why people have them and the sort of people who have them.

What a lot of people see is jack the lad walking down the road with the untrained dog on his arm and then see what hits the headlines which obviously is bad news as good news about these sort of dogs doesn`t sell half as well. They don`t see a very big percentage of very competent owners who raise their dogs correctly and know how to handle them.

Lord B writes:

"These type of breeds are a statement and tell you a lot about the owners. They wouldn't be seen dead walking a poodle or any small breed for that matter".

Lord B I`m wondering what it tells you about me. Ok picture this ;) A 5`1" 7st 3lb 43 year old woman walking down the road with a Rottweiler and a Cocker Spanial. (Yes you guessed right she`s a small breed ;)) lol

Lord B you also write:

"The difference lies with the owners of these dangerous breeds, most of them are incapable of stringing together a few comprehensible words let alone being able to read."

I can read and write i`ve even managed this post all on my own :0)lol

Anyway i`m trying to make it lighthearted as i don`t want to come accross as agressive (as i`m not) about things that have been said i just wanted to say to anyone who judges people that own what people perceive as a dangerous dog that we`re not all muscles and tattoos (ok i do have a small tattoo on my ankle ;)) and we don`t parade around the streets with an untrained dog just to make us feel big as nothing would do that for me :)) Some of us love our dogs and bring them up correctly. We don`t all let them run riot attacking people.

I try very hard to bring my Rottweiler up correctly even more so because of the breed she is. When her dinner goes in her stand she wouldn`t move an inch until she has been given the command.

Her recall is 99% so she is leashed in the park when there are other dogs and people about. I do this not because she fights because she doesn`t i do it because i respect people possibly might not like her because of the breed she is.

She sits at kerbs without even a small command.Only last week on our way back from our walk we got to the end of the road and stopped at the kerb to wait and cross and she knows at that point that her bum has to hit the floor immediatly and she will look at my face until i say walk. A car was coming and it in a little old couple who slowed right down and pointed at her smiling from ear to ear and i felt so proud of her.

I am not niave and do know what she "could" be capable of if she wished to but i`m never going to put her in a position to find out unlike the recent events.

Ok i`ll finish now just by saying please don`t tar us all with the same brush or our dogs. There`s a lot more good than bad out there.

Jackie x
Jackie, with the greatest of respect, if you scroll back up you will see that I was quoting a radio presenter. O.K. maybe my fault because I never put quotations around his words -

The radio presenter on BBC just now came as near to the truth as I've heard it. These type of breeds are a statement and tell you a lot about the owners. They wouldn't be seen dead walking a poodle or any small breed for that matter. Poodles aren't macho and somehow don't look right wearing a studded leather collar and thick chain lead.

I did say came as near to the truth, I didn't say 100% of people act this way but the fact is the dogs that kill normally come from these kind of people.

I did say MOST when referring to pitbull owners but the fact of the matter is, and I stick by my words on this one as others who have posted the same will, nobody, and that means nobody is capable of telling if a dog is going to turn, even the small breeds.

My personal opinion, although it wouldn't help those poor children, is that ALL dogs when in public places should be on a leash no matter where it is. Just think of the aggro it would save between dog owners alone when one dog attacks another. No doubt many will disagree with me though but at least I practice what I preach, none of our three are ever let of the lead. We also clean up, even if it's in a field. If we all did that the anti dog brigade would have nothing to moan about but I have more chance of winning the lottery than getting 30% of dog owners to clear the dogs dumps from public places.

I didn't realise that Rottweilers were classed as a dangerous dog but I will put my hand up as to not trusting them as far as I can throw them, which isn't very far considering their size - hehheh! My posts above are referring to Pitbulls or the cross breeds when posting "most of them are incapable of stringing together a few comprehensible words let alone being able to read."

I thought I made it clear in the posts but if not so I apologise Jackie, otherwise if it's a pick on Ol' Windyship day carry on - hehheh! I can take it ;O)
 
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Jackie, with the greatest of respect, if you scroll back up you will see that I was quoting a radio presenter. O.K. maybe my fault because I never put quotations around his words -

The radio presenter on BBC just now came as near to the truth as I've heard it. These type of breeds are a statement and tell you a lot about the owners. They wouldn't be seen dead walking a poodle or any small breed for that matter. Poodles aren't macho and somehow don't look right wearing a studded leather collar and thick chain lead.

I did say came as near to the truth, I didn't say 100% of people act this way but the fact is the dogs that kill normally come from these kind of people.

I did say MOST when referring to pitbull owners but the fact of the matter is, and I stick by my words on this one as others who have posted the same will, nobody, and that means nobody is capable of telling if a dog is going to turn, even the small breeds.

My personal opinion, although it wouldn't help those poor children, is that ALL dogs when in public places should be on a leash no matter where it is. Just think of the aggro it would save between dog owners alone when one dog attacks another. No doubt many will disagree with me though but at least I practice what I preach, none of our three are ever let of the lead. We also clean up, even if it's in a field. If we all did that the anti dog brigade would have nothing to moan about but I have more chance of winning the lottery than getting 30% of dog owners to clear the dogs dumps from public places.

I didn't realise that Rottweilers were classed as a dangerous dog but I will put my hand up as to not trusting them as far as I can throw them, which isn't very far considering their size - hehheh! My posts above are referring to Pitbulls or the cross breeds when posting "most of them are incapable of stringing together a few comprehensible words let alone being able to read."

I thought I made it clear in the posts but if not so I apologise Jackie, otherwise if it's a pick on Ol' Windyship day carry on - hehheh! I can take it ;O)
Lord B, you say: "The fact is the dogs that kill normally come from these kind of people."

I hear on TV: "A man whose dog killed five-year-old Ellie Lawrenson has a conviction for drug dealing, it was reported today."

Ummmm...
 
Dec 16, 2003
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Within our family we have a relative with a Golden retriever that has minimal training and if a child or anyone else was to knock it about, kick him or take a pair of pliars and pull out his teeth and claws he would probably just wag his tail and give you a paw taking it as a game !

Our late female retriever was as unpredictable as the weather, well trained but could turn at any momemt at infrequent times.

She could be fine in one sittuation one day and the next and a week later just turn nasty. Little children would toddle towards her at times as we made a hasty retreat and she was never let near children.

My friend has had two bad experiences with Bull terriers in recent times, he has always owned dogs and had a rescued "problem" Doberman that he had trained whilst having the first of the problem dogs. His experience of numerous Bull terrriers in his younger days was no preperation for his last two.

Training is no Guarantee of a dogs behaviour all though it does go some way to help the dogs.

Knowing your dog and being aware that some have failings is what counts.

Our old retriever cost a fortune in garden security to keep children safe from a wayward ***. We had to put up close mesh net fencing on hedges and welded locks to garden side gates and and added solid alluminium panels to them to prevent hands going through to the dog.
 
Jackie, with the greatest of respect, if you scroll back up you will see that I was quoting a radio presenter. O.K. maybe my fault because I never put quotations around his words -

The radio presenter on BBC just now came as near to the truth as I've heard it. These type of breeds are a statement and tell you a lot about the owners. They wouldn't be seen dead walking a poodle or any small breed for that matter. Poodles aren't macho and somehow don't look right wearing a studded leather collar and thick chain lead.

I did say came as near to the truth, I didn't say 100% of people act this way but the fact is the dogs that kill normally come from these kind of people.

I did say MOST when referring to pitbull owners but the fact of the matter is, and I stick by my words on this one as others who have posted the same will, nobody, and that means nobody is capable of telling if a dog is going to turn, even the small breeds.

My personal opinion, although it wouldn't help those poor children, is that ALL dogs when in public places should be on a leash no matter where it is. Just think of the aggro it would save between dog owners alone when one dog attacks another. No doubt many will disagree with me though but at least I practice what I preach, none of our three are ever let of the lead. We also clean up, even if it's in a field. If we all did that the anti dog brigade would have nothing to moan about but I have more chance of winning the lottery than getting 30% of dog owners to clear the dogs dumps from public places.

I didn't realise that Rottweilers were classed as a dangerous dog but I will put my hand up as to not trusting them as far as I can throw them, which isn't very far considering their size - hehheh! My posts above are referring to Pitbulls or the cross breeds when posting "most of them are incapable of stringing together a few comprehensible words let alone being able to read."

I thought I made it clear in the posts but if not so I apologise Jackie, otherwise if it's a pick on Ol' Windyship day carry on - hehheh! I can take it ;O)
Hi Lord B,

Sorry i did read it wrong you`re right.

You`re also right that Rottweillers aren`t on the dangerous dog act list. I just mentioned them as some include them when they mention dangerous dogs.

Sorry if you thought my post was getting at you as it wasn`t meant like that at all. The reason i used those 2 quotes was only because i could make a light hearted comment about them and my situation and it just happened that you wrote them both or at least i thought you did and i do apologise. I just didn`t want to use some of the argumentative quotes in case i looked like a rough and ready Rottweiler owner rather than a nice one :))))

I do agree with a lot of things you say too ;)Especially maybe keeping dogs leashed as my Cocker Spanial was attacked last year while leashed by an off lead dog and she has never forgotton it. The attack went on and on because i couldn`t get the dog off her and the owner wouldn`t come near me which i`m persuming was because of my Rottweiler. Funny thing is my Rottweiler just watched looking worried. I suppose i can`t blame the man for being worried of her though before you tell me off ;) lol

Jackie x
 
Dec 16, 2003
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I would just add that keeping a dog in a small house with next to no garden and then walking it around "the block" is also a recipe for disaster for many active dogs with a " work orientated " background.

Dilly Dream owners who walk their dogs on a lead and decide that the animal has had enough excersise are living in cloud nine land.

We have first hand experience of a problem dog spending three weeks with our dogs on their daily regime.

The dog that visited that had to be put on a lead if another dog came near and be kept away from big black dogs that it "always" went for and barked at all and sundrie if let out in the garden was a changed dog within three days on our dogs excersise regime.

Our dogs are off the lead whilst at least one of us covers at least 5 miles a day and our dogs probably run 3 or 4 times more than that, the visiting dog followed ours and was never a problem until she went back home again to shorter and shorter walks on the lead.

Our dogs and most others are far more entertaining than Corrie, East Benders or Hemoragedale etc. So there's a few hours a week to get out in the open at quieter times with dogs and given them the proper excersise they need.

If you CAN'T or WILL NOT do the MILES your dog NEEDS, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ONE !

If you can't train your dog to come back so you can let it run free to get proper excersise, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ONE !

A well excersised dog is a fit contented dog that is less likely to have problems.
 
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Its a valid point you have made Chris regarding exercise. I grew up with working dogs as my father was a gamekeeper. He worshipped his dogs and always maintained that you could train any dog as long as you gave it the three things it required, its own space, food and plenty of exercise. Even though he is now retired and in his early eighties he has continued to own dogs as pets. His current two labs have never worn a lead and when out will not leave his side until instructed. I really do not buy into the thinking that no dog can be trusted, its the owners in horific attacks like the one on Monday who cannot be trusted to look after the animal with the required responsibility.
 
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Our dogs will run for many miles, they are from "working" Spaniel stock and like our Colloie of many years ago they will go non stop day in day out even if we cover 20 plus miles a day.

As living things they have a brain and need stimulation as we do, how similar dogs to ours can be expected to be well behaved after spending the day waiting for owners to return home and then get a few hudred yard around the local streets or rec on a lead is beyond me.

To many dogs have become a must have commodity that people want to turn on and off like the video, hifi or dishwasher! Unlike you dads dogs that probaly spent many many hours along side him rather than sat in a bed waiting for owners to return home only to sit in front of the box rather than give their pets what they need.
 
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Feel the need to join in on this topic. We have two Golden Retrievers ages 8 and 9 years, who are very friendly. They are not used to children as they have not been brought up with them, so I am very cautious if there are children about as you never know for sure what the reaction will be. If we are out walking the dogs they are put on the lead and kept to heel if any children are seen, after all some children (and adults) are scared of dogs. But some parents do the strangest things. We were sat outside a pub in Suffolk enjoying a well earned drink after a long walk. The dogs were dozing in the shade under the table. A young couple with three children came over admired the dogs and asked if the children could stroke them. The older children ages about 7 and 10. gently stoked the dogs and asked questions, all very pleasant and the dogs politely sat there enjoying the fuss. Suddenly the parent holding the third child (a baby) suddenly thrust the little mite at one of the dogs face so that child could enjoy? a stroke!. Luckily the dog didn't react although I thought she might have as it was such a surprise. Would you have thrust a 6 month old baby at a strange dog? I think not. What on earth goes through some peoples minds.

very perplexed

Gill
 
Jan 19, 2008
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Feel the need to join in on this topic. We have two Golden Retrievers ages 8 and 9 years, who are very friendly. They are not used to children as they have not been brought up with them, so I am very cautious if there are children about as you never know for sure what the reaction will be. If we are out walking the dogs they are put on the lead and kept to heel if any children are seen, after all some children (and adults) are scared of dogs. But some parents do the strangest things. We were sat outside a pub in Suffolk enjoying a well earned drink after a long walk. The dogs were dozing in the shade under the table. A young couple with three children came over admired the dogs and asked if the children could stroke them. The older children ages about 7 and 10. gently stoked the dogs and asked questions, all very pleasant and the dogs politely sat there enjoying the fuss. Suddenly the parent holding the third child (a baby) suddenly thrust the little mite at one of the dogs face so that child could enjoy? a stroke!. Luckily the dog didn't react although I thought she might have as it was such a surprise. Would you have thrust a 6 month old baby at a strange dog? I think not. What on earth goes through some peoples minds.

very perplexed

Gill
Hmmmmm scarey Gill, and what if the baby had poked your dog in the eye!!!! No doubt you would have got the blame though.
 

LMH

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Can't reply to your response proper cris as I'm a bit upset.

The witch hunt has started with my breed now. Took Diesel (aka Gaylord) out this morning (on his lead) and was verbally abused by a man and a woman. Their tirade of abuse was relentless and totally uncalled for.

My lovely little dog (whom I believe should be an ambasador for the breed) was verbally abused too.

People on here who know me, know I can stand my ground but I honestly don't believe we deserved that.

Lisa
Hi Jackie

Thanks ever so much for your reply. I still can't believe those two people kicked off like that. I did manage to silence them in the end though.

Hopefully as you say, they're a minority and I'll be on my guard if it happens again. It was really nice of you to take the time to reply and use such kind words.

Thanks again.

Lisa
 
Nov 7, 2005
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Feel the need to join in on this topic. We have two Golden Retrievers ages 8 and 9 years, who are very friendly. They are not used to children as they have not been brought up with them, so I am very cautious if there are children about as you never know for sure what the reaction will be. If we are out walking the dogs they are put on the lead and kept to heel if any children are seen, after all some children (and adults) are scared of dogs. But some parents do the strangest things. We were sat outside a pub in Suffolk enjoying a well earned drink after a long walk. The dogs were dozing in the shade under the table. A young couple with three children came over admired the dogs and asked if the children could stroke them. The older children ages about 7 and 10. gently stoked the dogs and asked questions, all very pleasant and the dogs politely sat there enjoying the fuss. Suddenly the parent holding the third child (a baby) suddenly thrust the little mite at one of the dogs face so that child could enjoy? a stroke!. Luckily the dog didn't react although I thought she might have as it was such a surprise. Would you have thrust a 6 month old baby at a strange dog? I think not. What on earth goes through some peoples minds.

very perplexed

Gill
Confirms my belief that if we could only deal with people there wouldn't be any problem at all with dogs...
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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Hi cris

Thanks for clarifying your daughter's experience. Very sorry to hear about it all.

It just goes to show that you can encounter problems, no matter if you pay over the top for a dog and no matter how many miles you travel. It certainly sounds like she's used the services of many canine specialists too in her quest to get answers.

I hope she has better luck with her new dog.

Regards

Lisa

I do think it's unfair of you to assume that all breeders are all tarred with the same brush though.
 
Dec 16, 2003
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Lisa

I would not say that all breeders are tarred with the same brush as we know that is not the case. But my daughter and her partner have travelled to many dog shows around the country since the dog had to be put down. People that were not directly involved will not speak to her now, she has learnt that others from the same litter have had problems but some have " closed ranks " in some kind of move to protect both the breeder and the future of the breed they think.

The price paid for the dog was the going price ! and the very large vet bills and specialist bills were not a finacial burden in any way.

As dog lovers they feel there is a point of principal re the breeders honesty and that of "some" others in the "dog breeding"

world. Also please remember that the stud dog has been sold on!

The breeder tried to pass off the problem as a one off problem with one puppy. Now known and proven not to be the case !
 

LMH

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Following the recent death of Ellie Lawrenson and other dog attack victims, there have understandably been concerned calls for more to be done to prevent these tragic situations. I am a mother, and nothing in the world comes before the well-being of my child, so I join in the chorus calling for change. I am dismayed, however, by many of the 'solutions' being considered by local and national authorities which are being encouraged by the media.

As has been proven by recent events, the Dangerous Dogs Act is not an effective piece of legislation. It was a hastily written, ill-conceived, kneejerk reaction to a similar spate of dog attacks in the early 1990s, and is misguided in its well-intended efforts to curb dog aggression towards humans. Most aggressive dogs are aggressive because either their owners want them to be aggressive, or because their owners haven't provided the environment, training and tools necessary to raise and care for a well-adjusted family pet. Therefore, any government legislation regarding dangerous dogs should first target the true root of almost all dog behaviour problems - irresponsible owners.

I'm not a lawmaker, nor do I profess to be familiar with the intricacies of governance, but I do know that certain general aspects of the Dangerous Dogs Act should be drastically revised. The most important change I think needs to be made is that owners of aggressive dogs should be forced to take far greater responsibility for their dogs' actions, both in public and private. Imposing stiff monetary penalties, mandatory behaviour modification regimens with accredited trainers, and ultimately removing the dog (without euthanasia) from the delinquent owners are just some of the owner-targeted revisions that should be considered. These types of changes would not only serve to modify the behaviour of already aggressive dogs, they would prevent future dogs from becoming aggressive by forcing more responsible dog ownership. More must be done to severely punish those owners responsible by giving any new dog-related legislation 'teeth', unlike the Dangerous Dogs Act.

Another major flaw in the Act is that it focuses on breed specific legislation, altogether outlawing four 'types' of dogs in Britain. Any breed of dog can bite. Any breed of dog can be a good pet. It is true that over the years certain breeds have been bred for fighting, herding, and hunting, and unfortunately, certain groups of people seek out these dogs as 'pets' specifically for this purpose. For a small, sad, and dangerous sliver of society, it has become 'macho' to own one of these dogs, as they consider the animals a status symbol and celebrate and encourage the dogs' aggression. These people should be the target of the Dangerous Dogs Act, not entire breeds of dog. Having dealt with a large number of drug dealers in the South Bronx who owned pit bulls and other 'fighting' dogs, I am aware of how big a challenge it is tackling this issue. Therefore, however, I am also firmly of the belief that if you ban certain breeds, these people will simply move further underground and/or choose yet another breed to glorify, rendering breed-specific legislation useless as it spirals towards outlawing more and more breeds. I've fostered and trained countless rottweilers and pit bulls in America (where they are not illegal), and have found them to make very good pets, provided (as with any dog) that their owners are responsible. To continue to support breed-specific legislation is not only unfair to owners and dogs who happen to look like a certain breed, it encourages legislation that ultimately does very little towards achieving the goal of reducing the number of dog attacks in our society.

Several local authorities throughout the country are considering an amnesty, allowing owners of potentially banned dogs to voluntarily turn in their pets to be euthanised. While I assume these authorities believe they would be serving the public's best interest, I adamantly oppose such amnesties. The Dangerous Dogs Act itself has a difficult time defining which 'types' of dog should be banned (the American Pit Bull Terrier is not even a recognized breed in the UK), so what level of competence to correctly determine a dog's breed can be expected of those local officials overseeing these amnesties? Since news of the tragic death of Ellie Lawrenson, vets are reporting a surge in the number of requests they've had from the public to put family pets to sleep, afraid that their dog might suddenly become aggressive as well. An amnesty would undoubtedly accelerate this practice and lead to the death of many well-adjusted, non-aggressive pets. Further, do those proposing these amnesties really believe that those who celebrate the aggression in their truly dangerous dogs will come forward? Common sense tells us that the only ones who will surrender their dogs to the amnesty are those whose dogs have probably shown little or no aggression. I also call on the UK media to begin to frame their coverage of this and other similar stories in a balanced manner, allowing for all viewpoints to be heard and read. Too often, only the loudest, most inflammatory opinions are the ones the media chooses to cover, leaving their audience with misinformation and bias. More care should be taken by news editors and producers to ensure that the 'experts' they invite as guests to debate dog-related issues are truly experts, and that all sides of an argument are represented.

Another major problem that we have in this country is puppy farming. Medically and behaviourally unsound dogs are being sold to unsuspecting owners through this despicable practice. Classified ads in the back of newspapers and magazines, some major department stores, pet shops and a few disreputable 'rescue shelters' are selling puppies that have been bred from bad lines and have been kept in unclean, isolating conditions which negatively affect the dog for the rest of its life. Like children, puppies need to be socialized, nurtured and prepared for adult life, and if this doesn't happen, major problems can arise. Puppy farmers have no interest in their puppies - they are merely a vehicle for making money - and the breeding bitches are kept in an environment of filth with little human contact. Local authorities must do more to prosecute these puppy farmers.

While dog licensing and/or registration would be a step in the right direction, it's not the final answer. Difficult and expensive to coordinate, dog licensing is a process easily circumvented by those owners unconcerned with their dogs' best interest. Further, dog licensing would not deter one of the primary ingredients of this problem - those who breed and encourage aggression in dogs.

There are indeed dogs in our society that are dangerous. But the vast majority of these dogs are dangerous either because their owners are irresponsible or because their owners don't have the tools necessary to modify their dog's behaviour. When trainers like myself say that it's the owner's fault when a dog is aggressive in public, it's not always because of something the owner is doing wrong at the moment of aggression. More often, that aggression is a byproduct of an owner's irresponsibility or ignorance in general as a dog owner (i.e. at home).

All dog attacks are upsetting, especially when they are include children, and we as a society need to do far more to prevent further tragedies from occurring. Hopefully we can avoid the pitfalls which affected those responsible for the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act and find the courage to target and attack those truly responsible, leading to healthier dogs and safer environments everywhere.

Victoria Stilwell

Dog Trainer (taken from another website), Lisa
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Following the recent death of Ellie Lawrenson and other dog attack victims, there have understandably been concerned calls for more to be done to prevent these tragic situations. I am a mother, and nothing in the world comes before the well-being of my child, so I join in the chorus calling for change. I am dismayed, however, by many of the 'solutions' being considered by local and national authorities which are being encouraged by the media.

As has been proven by recent events, the Dangerous Dogs Act is not an effective piece of legislation. It was a hastily written, ill-conceived, kneejerk reaction to a similar spate of dog attacks in the early 1990s, and is misguided in its well-intended efforts to curb dog aggression towards humans. Most aggressive dogs are aggressive because either their owners want them to be aggressive, or because their owners haven't provided the environment, training and tools necessary to raise and care for a well-adjusted family pet. Therefore, any government legislation regarding dangerous dogs should first target the true root of almost all dog behaviour problems - irresponsible owners.

I'm not a lawmaker, nor do I profess to be familiar with the intricacies of governance, but I do know that certain general aspects of the Dangerous Dogs Act should be drastically revised. The most important change I think needs to be made is that owners of aggressive dogs should be forced to take far greater responsibility for their dogs' actions, both in public and private. Imposing stiff monetary penalties, mandatory behaviour modification regimens with accredited trainers, and ultimately removing the dog (without euthanasia) from the delinquent owners are just some of the owner-targeted revisions that should be considered. These types of changes would not only serve to modify the behaviour of already aggressive dogs, they would prevent future dogs from becoming aggressive by forcing more responsible dog ownership. More must be done to severely punish those owners responsible by giving any new dog-related legislation 'teeth', unlike the Dangerous Dogs Act.

Another major flaw in the Act is that it focuses on breed specific legislation, altogether outlawing four 'types' of dogs in Britain. Any breed of dog can bite. Any breed of dog can be a good pet. It is true that over the years certain breeds have been bred for fighting, herding, and hunting, and unfortunately, certain groups of people seek out these dogs as 'pets' specifically for this purpose. For a small, sad, and dangerous sliver of society, it has become 'macho' to own one of these dogs, as they consider the animals a status symbol and celebrate and encourage the dogs' aggression. These people should be the target of the Dangerous Dogs Act, not entire breeds of dog. Having dealt with a large number of drug dealers in the South Bronx who owned pit bulls and other 'fighting' dogs, I am aware of how big a challenge it is tackling this issue. Therefore, however, I am also firmly of the belief that if you ban certain breeds, these people will simply move further underground and/or choose yet another breed to glorify, rendering breed-specific legislation useless as it spirals towards outlawing more and more breeds. I've fostered and trained countless rottweilers and pit bulls in America (where they are not illegal), and have found them to make very good pets, provided (as with any dog) that their owners are responsible. To continue to support breed-specific legislation is not only unfair to owners and dogs who happen to look like a certain breed, it encourages legislation that ultimately does very little towards achieving the goal of reducing the number of dog attacks in our society.

Several local authorities throughout the country are considering an amnesty, allowing owners of potentially banned dogs to voluntarily turn in their pets to be euthanised. While I assume these authorities believe they would be serving the public's best interest, I adamantly oppose such amnesties. The Dangerous Dogs Act itself has a difficult time defining which 'types' of dog should be banned (the American Pit Bull Terrier is not even a recognized breed in the UK), so what level of competence to correctly determine a dog's breed can be expected of those local officials overseeing these amnesties? Since news of the tragic death of Ellie Lawrenson, vets are reporting a surge in the number of requests they've had from the public to put family pets to sleep, afraid that their dog might suddenly become aggressive as well. An amnesty would undoubtedly accelerate this practice and lead to the death of many well-adjusted, non-aggressive pets. Further, do those proposing these amnesties really believe that those who celebrate the aggression in their truly dangerous dogs will come forward? Common sense tells us that the only ones who will surrender their dogs to the amnesty are those whose dogs have probably shown little or no aggression. I also call on the UK media to begin to frame their coverage of this and other similar stories in a balanced manner, allowing for all viewpoints to be heard and read. Too often, only the loudest, most inflammatory opinions are the ones the media chooses to cover, leaving their audience with misinformation and bias. More care should be taken by news editors and producers to ensure that the 'experts' they invite as guests to debate dog-related issues are truly experts, and that all sides of an argument are represented.

Another major problem that we have in this country is puppy farming. Medically and behaviourally unsound dogs are being sold to unsuspecting owners through this despicable practice. Classified ads in the back of newspapers and magazines, some major department stores, pet shops and a few disreputable 'rescue shelters' are selling puppies that have been bred from bad lines and have been kept in unclean, isolating conditions which negatively affect the dog for the rest of its life. Like children, puppies need to be socialized, nurtured and prepared for adult life, and if this doesn't happen, major problems can arise. Puppy farmers have no interest in their puppies - they are merely a vehicle for making money - and the breeding bitches are kept in an environment of filth with little human contact. Local authorities must do more to prosecute these puppy farmers.

While dog licensing and/or registration would be a step in the right direction, it's not the final answer. Difficult and expensive to coordinate, dog licensing is a process easily circumvented by those owners unconcerned with their dogs' best interest. Further, dog licensing would not deter one of the primary ingredients of this problem - those who breed and encourage aggression in dogs.

There are indeed dogs in our society that are dangerous. But the vast majority of these dogs are dangerous either because their owners are irresponsible or because their owners don't have the tools necessary to modify their dog's behaviour. When trainers like myself say that it's the owner's fault when a dog is aggressive in public, it's not always because of something the owner is doing wrong at the moment of aggression. More often, that aggression is a byproduct of an owner's irresponsibility or ignorance in general as a dog owner (i.e. at home).

All dog attacks are upsetting, especially when they are include children, and we as a society need to do far more to prevent further tragedies from occurring. Hopefully we can avoid the pitfalls which affected those responsible for the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act and find the courage to target and attack those truly responsible, leading to healthier dogs and safer environments everywhere.

Victoria Stilwell

Dog Trainer (taken from another website), Lisa
"and ultimately removing the dog (without euthanasia)"

Are we talking about the dog here, or the owner?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Lisa,

Thoroughly agree with what you have brought to our attention,

(our meaning the people who read this forum.)

Its a very long statement which I would like to comment on one particular section.

Puppy farming has a lot to answer for,people going for cheap pups not knowing what the parents where like often breading savage strains within the pups that only become apparent when its two late.

Not wishing to open a can of worms I mysef would not take on board a rescue dog for the above reason.

Our present pet is a Kerry Blue coming up to nine years, when we first contacted the breader via the Kennel Club with a view to purchase, we where asked (lots and I mean that) questions on to why we wanted a Kerry normally bred for showing, what sort of dogs we had in the past,I had the impression that I was not good enough to have one of her Dogs.

After visiting various shows with Her and given chances to mix with her Pups Finally purchased Joy with the understanding that if we could not bond with Joy we should return it to Her.

Final note one of her Kerrys got through to the final eight at Crufts achievment .

All breaders should be registered with the Kennel Club, and dog licences should be brouht back.

Royston
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Royston

Thanks for the reply. I have a rescue dog and although we love her, we would never have another rescue dog. My other dog is a pedigree and we were vetted too and like you, at one point, I felt we wern't good enough to take one of the breeders pups home. However, it all worked out in the end and I can't praise this dog highly enough. I stay in touch with the breeder.

There's a large culture of backyard breeders in this country (those who breed from inferior dogs which have not been health checked and suffer from conformation/health/temperament problems).

Nice to hear about the Kerry getting into the line up for BIS at Crufts, I bet they were extremely proud to say the least.

I think dog licences should be brought back and competency tests carried out on all prospective and current owners with a fee attached to the tests.

Regards

Lisa
 

LMH

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Following the recent death of Ellie Lawrenson and other dog attack victims, there have understandably been concerned calls for more to be done to prevent these tragic situations. I am a mother, and nothing in the world comes before the well-being of my child, so I join in the chorus calling for change. I am dismayed, however, by many of the 'solutions' being considered by local and national authorities which are being encouraged by the media.

As has been proven by recent events, the Dangerous Dogs Act is not an effective piece of legislation. It was a hastily written, ill-conceived, kneejerk reaction to a similar spate of dog attacks in the early 1990s, and is misguided in its well-intended efforts to curb dog aggression towards humans. Most aggressive dogs are aggressive because either their owners want them to be aggressive, or because their owners haven't provided the environment, training and tools necessary to raise and care for a well-adjusted family pet. Therefore, any government legislation regarding dangerous dogs should first target the true root of almost all dog behaviour problems - irresponsible owners.

I'm not a lawmaker, nor do I profess to be familiar with the intricacies of governance, but I do know that certain general aspects of the Dangerous Dogs Act should be drastically revised. The most important change I think needs to be made is that owners of aggressive dogs should be forced to take far greater responsibility for their dogs' actions, both in public and private. Imposing stiff monetary penalties, mandatory behaviour modification regimens with accredited trainers, and ultimately removing the dog (without euthanasia) from the delinquent owners are just some of the owner-targeted revisions that should be considered. These types of changes would not only serve to modify the behaviour of already aggressive dogs, they would prevent future dogs from becoming aggressive by forcing more responsible dog ownership. More must be done to severely punish those owners responsible by giving any new dog-related legislation 'teeth', unlike the Dangerous Dogs Act.

Another major flaw in the Act is that it focuses on breed specific legislation, altogether outlawing four 'types' of dogs in Britain. Any breed of dog can bite. Any breed of dog can be a good pet. It is true that over the years certain breeds have been bred for fighting, herding, and hunting, and unfortunately, certain groups of people seek out these dogs as 'pets' specifically for this purpose. For a small, sad, and dangerous sliver of society, it has become 'macho' to own one of these dogs, as they consider the animals a status symbol and celebrate and encourage the dogs' aggression. These people should be the target of the Dangerous Dogs Act, not entire breeds of dog. Having dealt with a large number of drug dealers in the South Bronx who owned pit bulls and other 'fighting' dogs, I am aware of how big a challenge it is tackling this issue. Therefore, however, I am also firmly of the belief that if you ban certain breeds, these people will simply move further underground and/or choose yet another breed to glorify, rendering breed-specific legislation useless as it spirals towards outlawing more and more breeds. I've fostered and trained countless rottweilers and pit bulls in America (where they are not illegal), and have found them to make very good pets, provided (as with any dog) that their owners are responsible. To continue to support breed-specific legislation is not only unfair to owners and dogs who happen to look like a certain breed, it encourages legislation that ultimately does very little towards achieving the goal of reducing the number of dog attacks in our society.

Several local authorities throughout the country are considering an amnesty, allowing owners of potentially banned dogs to voluntarily turn in their pets to be euthanised. While I assume these authorities believe they would be serving the public's best interest, I adamantly oppose such amnesties. The Dangerous Dogs Act itself has a difficult time defining which 'types' of dog should be banned (the American Pit Bull Terrier is not even a recognized breed in the UK), so what level of competence to correctly determine a dog's breed can be expected of those local officials overseeing these amnesties? Since news of the tragic death of Ellie Lawrenson, vets are reporting a surge in the number of requests they've had from the public to put family pets to sleep, afraid that their dog might suddenly become aggressive as well. An amnesty would undoubtedly accelerate this practice and lead to the death of many well-adjusted, non-aggressive pets. Further, do those proposing these amnesties really believe that those who celebrate the aggression in their truly dangerous dogs will come forward? Common sense tells us that the only ones who will surrender their dogs to the amnesty are those whose dogs have probably shown little or no aggression. I also call on the UK media to begin to frame their coverage of this and other similar stories in a balanced manner, allowing for all viewpoints to be heard and read. Too often, only the loudest, most inflammatory opinions are the ones the media chooses to cover, leaving their audience with misinformation and bias. More care should be taken by news editors and producers to ensure that the 'experts' they invite as guests to debate dog-related issues are truly experts, and that all sides of an argument are represented.

Another major problem that we have in this country is puppy farming. Medically and behaviourally unsound dogs are being sold to unsuspecting owners through this despicable practice. Classified ads in the back of newspapers and magazines, some major department stores, pet shops and a few disreputable 'rescue shelters' are selling puppies that have been bred from bad lines and have been kept in unclean, isolating conditions which negatively affect the dog for the rest of its life. Like children, puppies need to be socialized, nurtured and prepared for adult life, and if this doesn't happen, major problems can arise. Puppy farmers have no interest in their puppies - they are merely a vehicle for making money - and the breeding bitches are kept in an environment of filth with little human contact. Local authorities must do more to prosecute these puppy farmers.

While dog licensing and/or registration would be a step in the right direction, it's not the final answer. Difficult and expensive to coordinate, dog licensing is a process easily circumvented by those owners unconcerned with their dogs' best interest. Further, dog licensing would not deter one of the primary ingredients of this problem - those who breed and encourage aggression in dogs.

There are indeed dogs in our society that are dangerous. But the vast majority of these dogs are dangerous either because their owners are irresponsible or because their owners don't have the tools necessary to modify their dog's behaviour. When trainers like myself say that it's the owner's fault when a dog is aggressive in public, it's not always because of something the owner is doing wrong at the moment of aggression. More often, that aggression is a byproduct of an owner's irresponsibility or ignorance in general as a dog owner (i.e. at home).

All dog attacks are upsetting, especially when they are include children, and we as a society need to do far more to prevent further tragedies from occurring. Hopefully we can avoid the pitfalls which affected those responsible for the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act and find the courage to target and attack those truly responsible, leading to healthier dogs and safer environments everywhere.

Victoria Stilwell

Dog Trainer (taken from another website), Lisa
The owner I hope........
 
Mar 14, 2005
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While some may not want a rescue dog, we on the other hand can recommend them. It is no longer a case of buying a pup from what looks like a professional breeder and being able to expect it to be a safe choice. We have traveled that path and experience shows us that it's not always the best route. However, having had three rescue dogs and enjoyed companionship with all of them, finding a downside is quite difficult. Most dog re homing kennels, vet the dogs before they are allowed into families. They are usually mature dogs, that have a fully developed character, so any nasties can be observed before re-housing. Don't think that this is a cheap option though, that they are giving these dogs away, they are not. Kennels need to make a profit/living and as such are run along business lines.

At the end of the day, you are giving a loving home to a new friend, that may have been destroyed because it's unwanted. If the relationship doesn't turn out OK, you can always take the animal back, knowing full well you haven't added to the growing number of unwanted dogs.
 
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I agree with most of the sentiments on here. The one thing that has not come out so far is that there is an underclass of individuals that actually breed these "Pit-Bull" Type dogs for fighting.

The Dog Trust and RSPCA has known this for years and these and other responcible organisations do there best.

But when families and friends condone it and cover it up - it is a tragedy just waiting to happen.
 

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