A slight touch of envy, perhaps? As you and I know Phil, the running cost difference is minimal.
Up to now, kept away from this topic, saw the word "4x4" and thought.here we go again! Live and let live is my attitude to all things, but i also like to keep things in perspective as well, so if its OK and justifiable for the "apparent" virtues of one thing to be greatly exaggerated, surely its fair to put thinks back in to a sort of fair perspective?
Phil. how can ONE colder winter in the last decade, be a justification for suggesting that people en mass buy a 4x4s? God i have been out all winter driving a 14 and 26 tonnes lorries which drive solely the rear wheels! and as yet not had any serious problems with this winter!
I also suspect [although cannot be arsed to check road tax rates] your vehicles £210 a year has been able to take advantage of the pre 2000 roadtax system ? or could it be the freeze on pre 2006 car?either way but sooner or later as time goes on your choice becomes more limited and i suspect a newer version of whatever you drive would cost considerable more.
Having said that there are indeed a few fair sized 4x4 that dip under the £210.
But what difference does that make anyway? If you are happy and like what you drive, good, but why try justifying something you have no need to?but if you do feel the need to do so, surely you should be more careful of what you say, because it might actually not come across as much of a justification if someone does decide to make comparisons.
I mean is a few days of snow really a good justification to use in your statement for having a 4x4? what about words like reliable and comfortable? are smaller cars driving two wheels less reliable or indeed less comfortable? Do you have to have a large 4X4 so you can see into the car becide you?
Do you actually consider 34mpg urban and 24 mpg towing, to be good mpg in this day?or indeed £210 roadtax to be good?
I certainly don't, and really using this type of info as a means to "try" to justify anything seems rather a waste of time, and like I said earlier why bother.But you did so can I make a comparison using my own old bangers?
Seat Alhambra 130tdi [04] and ford Mondeo 2.2. [06] both are comfortable both are reliable, both are cheaper to tax than you car, both are actually quite big cars, with huge boots. as well..and both can do 50 plus mpg urban and crack 30 mpg towing my 1500kg caravan.
Tyres and brake pads certainly cost no more than your example, and on top of that the Mondeo is one hell of a grand tourer too.
So emmerson you wont find envy from my quarter, but I do wonder why you feel the need to use such an inaccurate statement anyway
Phil. how can ONE colder winter in the last decade, be a justification for suggesting that people en mass buy a 4x4s? God i have been out all winter driving a 14 and 26 tonnes lorries which drive solely the rear wheels! and as yet not had any serious problems with this winter!
I also suspect [although cannot be arsed to check road tax rates] your vehicles £210 a year has been able to take advantage of the pre 2000 roadtax system ? or could it be the freeze on pre 2006 car?either way but sooner or later as time goes on your choice becomes more limited and i suspect a newer version of whatever you drive would cost considerable more.
Having said that there are indeed a few fair sized 4x4 that dip under the £210.
But what difference does that make anyway? If you are happy and like what you drive, good, but why try justifying something you have no need to?but if you do feel the need to do so, surely you should be more careful of what you say, because it might actually not come across as much of a justification if someone does decide to make comparisons.
I mean is a few days of snow really a good justification to use in your statement for having a 4x4? what about words like reliable and comfortable? are smaller cars driving two wheels less reliable or indeed less comfortable? Do you have to have a large 4X4 so you can see into the car becide you?
Do you actually consider 34mpg urban and 24 mpg towing, to be good mpg in this day?or indeed £210 roadtax to be good?
I certainly don't, and really using this type of info as a means to "try" to justify anything seems rather a waste of time, and like I said earlier why bother.But you did so can I make a comparison using my own old bangers?
Seat Alhambra 130tdi [04] and ford Mondeo 2.2. [06] both are comfortable both are reliable, both are cheaper to tax than you car, both are actually quite big cars, with huge boots. as well..and both can do 50 plus mpg urban and crack 30 mpg towing my 1500kg caravan.
Tyres and brake pads certainly cost no more than your example, and on top of that the Mondeo is one hell of a grand tourer too.
So emmerson you wont find envy from my quarter, but I do wonder why you feel the need to use such an inaccurate statement anyway
What does it matter it all matter, at the end of the day you pay for what you want car wise. The problem is just the press and wallies who have to mention 4x4 whenever anything goes awry. An unfotunate accident with people injured in Scotland in ice and snow and it has to make the news as a 4x4 incident. The fact that dozens of two wheel drive cars crash or can't even get out in the conditions goes un reported. Issues involving cars should be reported just as a CAR related. Not as sports, 4x4, high power, big , medium or medium.
Our pals bought a new 400+hp petrol tow car for his large caravan earlier this year, whilst towing the car returns 10mpg at best and on steep hills down to 2.8mpg, he's not bothered as he pays a lot of tax and the 70K + running costs are funded by the "system". His previous hobby during a break from caravanning was far more fuel thirsty. If you want it and it is paid for legally why should anyone queery your personal choices?
Our pals bought a new 400+hp petrol tow car for his large caravan earlier this year, whilst towing the car returns 10mpg at best and on steep hills down to 2.8mpg, he's not bothered as he pays a lot of tax and the 70K + running costs are funded by the "system". His previous hobby during a break from caravanning was far more fuel thirsty. If you want it and it is paid for legally why should anyone queery your personal choices?
johnny, no one has to "justify" the type vehicle they choose to own.
in the same way no one has to justify living in a 3 or 4 bedroom house as a single person. provided you're within the law and can afford your choice you can have what you like.
in the same way no one has to justify living in a 3 or 4 bedroom house as a single person. provided you're within the law and can afford your choice you can have what you like.
mcghee said:
I wonder Had I posted the supposedly virtues of a normal run of the mill family car first, in the same context as post 24 [phil] posted about his car, and then had he responded to me with his post [24] would you be posting to him about getting on his "high horse"?
Or is it just a case of when somebody posts about a 4x4,and its virtues , it is bad manners to respond to them about your vehicles,and there virtues as a direct comparison?
Did I say anything that was untrue about my vehicles and their virtues? No. Did I not point out nobody has to justify what they drive? Yes. Yet I am the one getting on "my high horse"!
What is clear from your 2 posts, is when it comes to certain topics you cannot, will not be objective,. I wonder why!
sorry johnny. the reason i will not be objective in these sorts of discussions is because no matter what you say on this forum, no matter how much you know on any given subject, no matter how accurate your statements or observations, there will always be someone will come along and pick holes in what you say. and i find it a bit tiresome.
i use several forums johnny, as i'm sure most members here do, and it never ceases to amaze me the number of "i know better than you" posts on this forum, which i don't see on any other.
there's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy discussion, even a bit of argumentative banter. but it seems to me most topics on this forum get taken over by some people who would seem to know everything about everything, and have experienced all that life has to offer. worse than that, some seem to have rather misguided opinions and take it as a personal insult when you try to educate them with little gems of information like facts. and it really makes forum unwelcoming at best. which is why often leave the forum for months.
i wasn't having a poke at you in particular johnny, and wasn't being particarly serious either. it just infuriates me when every other topic ends up full of "i've done this and i've done that" and "my opinion is the word of the gospel because i can make ridiculous claims about my past, and then alter them to suit my needs".
apologies again johnny.
and i'm spent.
i use several forums johnny, as i'm sure most members here do, and it never ceases to amaze me the number of "i know better than you" posts on this forum, which i don't see on any other.
there's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy discussion, even a bit of argumentative banter. but it seems to me most topics on this forum get taken over by some people who would seem to know everything about everything, and have experienced all that life has to offer. worse than that, some seem to have rather misguided opinions and take it as a personal insult when you try to educate them with little gems of information like facts. and it really makes forum unwelcoming at best. which is why often leave the forum for months.
i wasn't having a poke at you in particular johnny, and wasn't being particarly serious either. it just infuriates me when every other topic ends up full of "i've done this and i've done that" and "my opinion is the word of the gospel because i can make ridiculous claims about my past, and then alter them to suit my needs".
apologies again johnny.
and i'm spent.
And on a lighter note. Stuff what anyone thinks I fancy one of these 4x4s. 715nm torque 3 litre twin turbo beemer diesel power should pull the van, plus shoud be good on any site field or snow or sand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s6j_CuUCTw
Just off to find a tow bar for it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s6j_CuUCTw
Just off to find a tow bar for it
Nooooooooooo
Just gonna run the caravan on 24 inch rims for more ground clearance
just need to move the axles fore and aft a tad and rework the wheel arches
Just gonna run the caravan on 24 inch rims for more ground clearance
just need to move the axles fore and aft a tad and rework the wheel arches
Brazil is deep water drilling and the technology works well if it is done correctly and short cuts not taken as I believe happened in the Gulf.RAY said:
bit late responding as i have been away earning a living. Johnny wrote #2I also suspect [although cannot be arsed to check road tax rates] your vehicles £210 a year has been able to take advantage of the pre 2000 roadtax system ? or could it be the freeze on pre 2006 car?either way but sooner or later as time goes on your choice becomes more limited and i suspect a newer version of whatever you drive would cost considerable more."
My car was registered new in March 2007.
I think what happens with these 4 x 4 threads is that the anit 4 x 4 lot suddenly come out hibernation and find themselves with something to complain about.
drive a 4 x 4 , i can afford to drive a 4 x 4, get over it.
My car was registered new in March 2007.
I think what happens with these 4 x 4 threads is that the anit 4 x 4 lot suddenly come out hibernation and find themselves with something to complain about.
drive a 4 x 4 , i can afford to drive a 4 x 4, get over it.
! why not go back to your original post number24, see how I replied to it!,indeed reread what you wrote do you consider that to be sound advice?Did i actually write something anti anything in my posts? Or is it merely a case of you using the "anti" word when you dont like what you read!Philspadders said:
now go to the AA or any site concerning road tax rates, and look at the small print! at the moment no car pays £210? but you? again willing to stand corrected.but then you havent stated what you drive......
The road tax changes are only set till 2011/12,and a closer inspection will show you how cars with over 175 co2/km have been given a lot of leeway over the last two or three years. indeed for now older pre march 2006 sit in groups moch lower then they should in really and that includes lots of petrol engines cars regardless of how many wheels they drive! lets hope they stay there otherwise even these older vehicles could see there road tax almost double.
You seem to have also forgotten the extortionate first years road tax that a lot of cars will have to folk out, given that you were talking about the virtues of a specific type of vehicle that incidentally falls often into these higher co2 groups, is that not misleading?or is it still a case of me or anyone pointing this out is anti!
Maybe you don't want to hear any of this, but given government taxation tricks, and the amount of cars falling into lower and lower CO2 groups, which means cars paying nothing or £35 or £110 or what ever, how long will it be before newer car tax groups appear and everything gets recalculated? its already happened twice in a decade, and this new system is already showing cracks and lack of planning so it will happen.
so my posts pointing out things like the above or my car tax rates, or how comfortable my car is or high big my boot space is all anti 4x4!
Please you could laso tell me where in my posts I am complaining as you have stanted above?indeed The only person complaining phil is you.!
Parksy
Moderator
- Nov 12, 2009
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This discussion is starting to get a bit personal in places. Personal arguments are not what the forum is about guys.
Play nicely or take your 'pistols at dawn' stuff somewhere else please, we don't want it on this forum and it won't be allowed to continue.
Play nicely or take your 'pistols at dawn' stuff somewhere else please, we don't want it on this forum and it won't be allowed to continue.
Went to a pub for lunch with friends in their M Class with £400 a year road tax. As we entered the pub one of a group of smug smokers commented "bet that costs a fortune to tax and insure"
My mates wife replied with "bet it costs less than your habit" as she pointed at the guys ***. He looked gutted
"Simples" spendinz ze monies owz you wantz an choozes. No ones elzes iz biz
As for electric cars. I know our cars always have a 400mile plus range. Last week I went out on a family crisis call, 300 plus mile round trip without any concerns, couldn't do that in an electric car! Even if refuelling had been needed it would have taken a few minutes, what happens with an electric car if you get called out when its only partly charged. IT'S USELESS
Until electic cars are available for full use 24/7 they are going to be pretty darn useless for very many car users. The only sensible option would be a battery packs that could be swapped at fuel stations and keep a spare at home.
My mates wife replied with "bet it costs less than your habit" as she pointed at the guys ***. He looked gutted
"Simples" spendinz ze monies owz you wantz an choozes. No ones elzes iz biz
As for electric cars. I know our cars always have a 400mile plus range. Last week I went out on a family crisis call, 300 plus mile round trip without any concerns, couldn't do that in an electric car! Even if refuelling had been needed it would have taken a few minutes, what happens with an electric car if you get called out when its only partly charged. IT'S USELESS
Until electic cars are available for full use 24/7 they are going to be pretty darn useless for very many car users. The only sensible option would be a battery packs that could be swapped at fuel stations and keep a spare at home.
Not actually a big fan of electric cars, no doubt if they really take off and improve then i may well be converted, after all the first petrol cars only ran for 20 odd miles, and everything has to start somewhere.
When we first stated venturing abroad 93, and looked at second-hand cars to do the journey, I tended to look at family sized cars that could do 250 miles between refills without running out of fuel.Now 2 decades later the cars we use double that figure with ease,although the switch from petrol to diesel did help a little, so no doubt electric cars will get better.
When we first stated venturing abroad 93, and looked at second-hand cars to do the journey, I tended to look at family sized cars that could do 250 miles between refills without running out of fuel.Now 2 decades later the cars we use double that figure with ease,although the switch from petrol to diesel did help a little, so no doubt electric cars will get better.
Unless electric cars can be re-fuelled within 5 minutes they will always be pretty useless. The only workable options is to find a near instant way of recharging them or have swappable standardised battery packs. It's not often these day that I get called out or need to hop in the car at 3am. But I always know our cars are ready to roll when we want.
The Nissan leaf will be OK for odd car users but not for real motorists who expect to be able to use their cars on demand.
If we'd had an electric car in the past I think our daughter would have been born at home and my wife would have bled to death! When my mother late mother inlaw was alive we got called out at all strange times including to a late night fire at her house. Waiting for a battery to charge could have lead to personal disasters for us.
The Nissan leaf will be OK for odd car users but not for real motorists who expect to be able to use their cars on demand.
If we'd had an electric car in the past I think our daughter would have been born at home and my wife would have bled to death! When my mother late mother inlaw was alive we got called out at all strange times including to a late night fire at her house. Waiting for a battery to charge could have lead to personal disasters for us.
" the nissan leaf will be OK for the odd car user but not for a real motorist who expects to use their cars on demand"
There are millions who commute daily using their cars on journeys of 15 to 20 miles or less,who do a weekly shop on a friday night or Saturday again the journey is short, there yearly mileage is less than 6 or 7k. So whilst personally not being a fan of electric cars and if push comes to shove I could give some bloody good reasons why for now they will not take off in a huge way, to say they will be OK for the odd car users is pretty much short of the mark by around a couple of million or so.
There are millions who commute daily using their cars on journeys of 15 to 20 miles or less,who do a weekly shop on a friday night or Saturday again the journey is short, there yearly mileage is less than 6 or 7k. So whilst personally not being a fan of electric cars and if push comes to shove I could give some bloody good reasons why for now they will not take off in a huge way, to say they will be OK for the odd car users is pretty much short of the mark by around a couple of million or so.
- Mar 10, 2006
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I do about 6k ayear, but i want a car to tow my caravan, so i don't expect a leaf to fill that requirement, so its a non starter.
If a electric car was heavily subsidized by the government, and the battery pack given a lengthy guarantee.
Then i would certainly consider one, i have space for another car in the garage for charging, so no problem.
As the leaf can be charged to 90% capacity via the quick charge plug, in if i recall correctly in 20mins? Then i don't think thats too bad. Queuing for fuel filling up, and getting to a fuel station takes time.
Today we took the car to Tesco to shop, a round trip of about 10 miles, if i had a leaf ,it would have been used.
Passing the "cheap" tesco fuel, the diesel was at around £133.
Happy new year.
If a electric car was heavily subsidized by the government, and the battery pack given a lengthy guarantee.
Then i would certainly consider one, i have space for another car in the garage for charging, so no problem.
As the leaf can be charged to 90% capacity via the quick charge plug, in if i recall correctly in 20mins? Then i don't think thats too bad. Queuing for fuel filling up, and getting to a fuel station takes time.
Today we took the car to Tesco to shop, a round trip of about 10 miles, if i had a leaf ,it would have been used.
Passing the "cheap" tesco fuel, the diesel was at around £133.
Happy new year.
- Mar 10, 2006
- 3,274
- 47
- 20,685
I do about 6k ayear, but i want a car to tow my caravan, so i don't expect a leaf to fill that requirement, so its a non starter.
If a electric car was heavily subsidized by the government, and the battery pack given a lengthy guarantee.
Then i would certainly consider one, i have space for another car in the garage for charging, so no problem.
As the leaf can be charged to 90% capacity via the quick charge plug, in if i recall correctly in 20mins? Then i don't think thats too bad. Queuing for fuel filling up, and getting to a fuel station takes time.
Today we took the car to Tesco to shop, a round trip of about 10 miles, if i had a leaf ,it would have been used.
Passing the "cheap" tesco fuel, the diesel was at around £133.
Happy new year.
If a electric car was heavily subsidized by the government, and the battery pack given a lengthy guarantee.
Then i would certainly consider one, i have space for another car in the garage for charging, so no problem.
As the leaf can be charged to 90% capacity via the quick charge plug, in if i recall correctly in 20mins? Then i don't think thats too bad. Queuing for fuel filling up, and getting to a fuel station takes time.
Today we took the car to Tesco to shop, a round trip of about 10 miles, if i had a leaf ,it would have been used.
Passing the "cheap" tesco fuel, the diesel was at around £133.
Happy new year.
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