4 x4's

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Lol1

Mar 14, 2005
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Tell me Kanga, do you really think that is being on the offensive? That was just a little light-hearted sentence that may or may not get picked up by the readers, a little weapon in the arsenal, that we all use. What I didn't say as an example is, "don't use two wheel drive cars to tow with because they are dangerous and liable to kill someone. They are not designed for the strains of towing". That may or may not be true, but it would then be up to yourself (as leader of the Anti's) to disprove that theory, making you defensive, and myself offensive (that doesn't seem the best way of putting it but hey, who's reading this bit anyway). Is that what you would prefer Kanga, our side to make the claims and yours to defend? Probably not going to happen, cos every car, and I mean every car is designed built and bought for a valid reason, weather you agree with that reason is another matter.

Thanks for saying I'm writing Clive like sermons, it is my intention, as the guy needs a break like the rest of us.

Damn, 7 spelling mistakes in this one, better go get a beer. Won't help, but it's a good excuse.
 
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Daventura

Mar 14, 2005
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I dont think that this debate is to do with whether or not a 4x4 or car is better for towing. It is a certain fact that a choice of 'ordinary'car for towing most caravans can be made without resorting to a 4x4. But that is not just what this 'anti' is saying. This anti is saying that a larger 4x4 is more likely to kill someone on impact than an 'ordinary' car.If it is used purely for towing for relatively small periods of time then is this justifiable for a choice?
 
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Lord Braykewynde

Jan 19, 2008
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I dont have a 4x4, as Ive posted before. I have a VW Passat Auto which Im very pleased with and feel comfortable towing with but if I had a van which I felt unsafe towing with my car I would get a 4x4 and bu**er what others thought. Lol, reading your post I saw some of your comments as light hearted as Im sure many others did/will.
 
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Lol1

Mar 14, 2005
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I dont think that this debate is to do with whether or not a 4x4 or car is better for towing. It is a certain fact that a choice of 'ordinary'car for towing most caravans can be made without resorting to a 4x4. But that is not just what this 'anti' is saying. This anti is saying that a larger 4x4 is more likely to kill someone on impact than an 'ordinary' car.If it is used purely for towing for relatively small periods of time then is this justifiable for a choice?
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Would you like 4x4 owners to have two cars? One for towing and one for general use I presume. Let you into a secret, most of our precious fossilised fuels are used during the manufacturing process of the car, not through its life cycle on the road. Having two cars (or more) is certainly not helping the environment. As for 4x4's killing more people, give me cold hard figures for this and I will shut up. I want people killed by 4x4's in a ratio to how many cars there are on the road compared to "normal cars". It's a grizzly thought I know, but unless you have some scientific figures of this actually happening, something that cannot be disproved, then you shouldn't be scare mongering.
 
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Mervyn1

Oct 4, 2005
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4x4 versus car, its a very difficult subject to debate this one due to the nature of our hobby. I think that there are plus and minuses on both sides. I do think though that if your caravan CAN be towed safely with a car then that is the responsible thing to do especially if those are the only times you need a bit of muscle. Without doubt a large 4x4 can be very threatening when it is coming up behind you and fills your interior mirror, or coming towards you with headlights and fog lights blazing at eye level in the dark or even during daylight. I think that I would always choose a caravan that is compatible with my car rather than have to resort to buying a large 4x4 in order to be able to pull a very large caravan.
 
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JandP

Mar 14, 2005
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I agree Mervyn, I have always chosen a caravan to suit the car I have at the time, but I am only a casual caravaner going out 6 or 7 times a year. There are many on this forum who are out every weekend and feel justified in buying a big van and a 4x4 to tow it. Personally I would rather find another hobby!
 
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Lol1

Mar 14, 2005
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I agree Mervyn, I have always chosen a caravan to suit the car I have at the time, but I am only a casual caravaner going out 6 or 7 times a year. There are many on this forum who are out every weekend and feel justified in buying a big van and a 4x4 to tow it. Personally I would rather find another hobby!
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How about offroading?
 
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Geordie

Mar 14, 2005
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Freedom of choice, not if the whiners have anything to do with it. How about a rally, just for the whiners,at least others will have a rest when the moaning crew get together,and they all get their anoraks on, and discuss their there chosen topic- 4x4amoan. Envy, Green, chip, shoulder, on, are just a few words that spring to mind when you witness the tripe they spout. I have read a few things on the supposed dangers of a 4x4s, and some of the figures being quoted by anoraks are not backed-up by the people who have done intensive investigations. So set a date for your rally, and get on with your whining!
 
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JandP

Mar 14, 2005
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Freedom of choice, not if the whiners have anything to do with it. How about a rally, just for the whiners,at least others will have a rest when the moaning crew get together,and they all get their anoraks on, and discuss their there chosen topic- 4x4amoan. Envy, Green, chip, shoulder, on, are just a few words that spring to mind when you witness the tripe they spout. I have read a few things on the supposed dangers of a 4x4s, and some of the figures being quoted by anoraks are not backed-up by the people who have done intensive investigations. So set a date for your rally, and get on with your whining!
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Come on, Geordie, dont beat about the bush, tell us what side you are on!
 
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colin(bridgend)

Mar 14, 2005
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Regarding the so called possible injury that could be had by a pedestrian in contact with a 4x4 there was an article in Saturday's Daily Mail where a 20 stone man was hit by a single decker bus. The results were that extensive damage was caused to the bus but after treatment for superficial cuts and bruising the chap was discharged from hospital. I am sure if a bus comes off the worse for wear by striking a pedestrian I should imagine a 4x4 would be a write off. It is not the intention of going out to have an accident and the figures in my area for pedestrian related accidents are very low and generally those that do occur are with normal cars, generally driven by boy racers.
 
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Lord Braykewynde

Jan 19, 2008
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I'm still waiting for a comment on the statement I made earlier ............... "I wonder who pollutes the atmostphere most, a family whose sole vehicle is a 4x4 or a family with three cars all being used" . .......... I find it strange that 4x4 was mentioned in my posting yet Kanga and Dave have refused to respond to it.
 
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JandP

Mar 14, 2005
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I'm still waiting for a comment on the statement I made earlier ............... "I wonder who pollutes the atmostphere most, a family whose sole vehicle is a 4x4 or a family with three cars all being used" . .......... I find it strange that 4x4 was mentioned in my posting yet Kanga and Dave have refused to respond to it.
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Hmmm tricky! To make a worthwhile comparison you would have to assume that the 3 cars were only used one at a time and, as there would be little point in having 3 the same, they would all be different types. If they were a small runabout to go to Tescos in, a large powerful vehicle (perhaps an estate) for long trips and to pull the van and a medium saloon for everything else then you could choose the car most suited to your purpose. This would surely be less polluting than using a large 4X4 for everything but, as has already been pointed out, much of the pollution comes from the manufacture of the vehicle so 3 would be worse than 1. But the 3 would only be used for a third of the time as there are 3 of them so they should last 3 times as long and as we know short journeys cause the most wear then it would be the runabout which would wear out first. This would be the cheapest and least polluting to replace, the large vehicle used only for long trips would be very lightly stressed and would last for years. This would be fine in a perfect world but of course its nice to have a new car with all the latest improvements so there is only so long that you would want to keep it. Also if you had the correct car for the job you would be more likely to use it e.g. a small car is easy to park so you might take it into town, the 4X4 is more difficult so you might take the bus. So the answer is--I havent got a clue! What was the question again?
 
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Lol1

Mar 14, 2005
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Hmmm tricky! To make a worthwhile comparison you would have to assume that the 3 cars were only used one at a time and, as there would be little point in having 3 the same, they would all be different types. If they were a small runabout to go to Tescos in, a large powerful vehicle (perhaps an estate) for long trips and to pull the van and a medium saloon for everything else then you could choose the car most suited to your purpose. This would surely be less polluting than using a large 4X4 for everything but, as has already been pointed out, much of the pollution comes from the manufacture of the vehicle so 3 would be worse than 1. But the 3 would only be used for a third of the time as there are 3 of them so they should last 3 times as long and as we know short journeys cause the most wear then it would be the runabout which would wear out first. This would be the cheapest and least polluting to replace, the large vehicle used only for long trips would be very lightly stressed and would last for years. This would be fine in a perfect world but of course its nice to have a new car with all the latest improvements so there is only so long that you would want to keep it. Also if you had the correct car for the job you would be more likely to use it e.g. a small car is easy to park so you might take it into town, the 4X4 is more difficult so you might take the bus. So the answer is--I havent got a clue! What was the question again?
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It sounds like me, it looks like me, but I know it isn't me....I'm not sure who needs help the most ;o)
 
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Tim2

Mar 14, 2005
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I drive a Vauxhall Monterey 4x4 (rebadged Isuzu Trooper). I had it converted to run on LPG because I am concerned for the environment and my pocket. I need the car to tow my large twin axle 'van which I got because of my large family With previous smaller van and other cars I had numerous problems re power, etc, even although the outfit was supposedly correctly matched. In addition the 4x4 is very useful on wet and muddy sites as I caravan all year round. I have often helped others without 4x4s who are stuck. I am a careful driver with one minor accident in 25+ years.

I think there needs to be a little toleration shown to people of differing needs and views

Regards

Tim
 
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