Surely the problem is not the speed at which these people travel,but their poor lane discipline,you should not sit in the middle lane for mile after mile when the nearside lane is empty.
50mph in the middle lane leaves nowhere for HGV's and caravans to go, this causes frustration, frustration causes accidents.
Steve W
50mph in the middle lane leaves nowhere for HGV's and caravans to go, this causes frustration, frustration causes accidents.
Steve W
You also shouldn't sit in the middle lane at 70 or more once you've completed overtaking vehicles in lane 1.
Lane discipline in the UK is pathetically poor. If this was the one category of bad driving to eliminate it would make our roads so much safer with shorter, more relaxed journey times.
Lane discipline in the UK is pathetically poor. If this was the one category of bad driving to eliminate it would make our roads so much safer with shorter, more relaxed journey times.
I agree Roger - in fact I think I read somewhere that CLOC's clog up the motorway by a large percentage because the effectively reduce a 3 lane motorway to 2 lanes. They seem totaly unaware that large wagons are not allowed in the third lane and so they are obstructing the trafic flow.
And please do not think I am ageist or any other thought of 'ist for that matter - but I cannot help but notice the vast majority of CLOC's are relatively elderly couples in small cars.
And please do not think I am ageist or any other thought of 'ist for that matter - but I cannot help but notice the vast majority of CLOC's are relatively elderly couples in small cars.
why is it that when you're driving and come up behind a man wearing a hat, you know you're in for a hard time?
Couldn't agree more. But why don't the police take the appropriate action to "move over" the middle lane hoggers. But then again they are usually in a hurry in the fast lane trying to get to a butty break or harras another poor (very poor if they have the chance) motorist.
Amazing - both my driving instuctor and my Father always said steer clear of men drivers wearing hats!
I think its more true now then ever before with the complete t**ts that roar arround in go-faster XR3 look alikes with baseball caps on their heads
I think its more true now then ever before with the complete t**ts that roar arround in go-faster XR3 look alikes with baseball caps on their heads
This thread seems to have changed direction a bit and is now concentrating on the centre lane hoggers. This is a seperate (and equally important) issue, however going back to the original posting I still think that there is something fundamentally wrong when a solo driven car is travelling at such a speed as to impair the progress of vehicles which are limited to 56 MPH.
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Hello Graham,
I cannot understand why you think it is fundamentally wrong for slow vehilces to use the motorways. They pay thier taxes, so the drivers of such vehicles are at liberty to do so under current legislation.
For some slow over abnormal load vehicles it is the only option, because they cannot negotiate the tight tuns and obsticals in some of our older A roads where they go through towns etc.
In the context of your original posting refering to motorways, provided they use the near side lane, the as a faster driver you have the option of using the offside lane(s) to over take, so what is the problem?
Just as you may choose to go faster, some people choose to go slower or may be forced to reduce speed for circumstances that you may not be aware.
Please have a little more consideration for the legitimate views and needs of other road users, and give yourself more time to complete a journey.
I cannot understand why you think it is fundamentally wrong for slow vehilces to use the motorways. They pay thier taxes, so the drivers of such vehicles are at liberty to do so under current legislation.
For some slow over abnormal load vehicles it is the only option, because they cannot negotiate the tight tuns and obsticals in some of our older A roads where they go through towns etc.
In the context of your original posting refering to motorways, provided they use the near side lane, the as a faster driver you have the option of using the offside lane(s) to over take, so what is the problem?
Just as you may choose to go faster, some people choose to go slower or may be forced to reduce speed for circumstances that you may not be aware.
Please have a little more consideration for the legitimate views and needs of other road users, and give yourself more time to complete a journey.
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Hello John I. Stephen,
I support you views stated above with one important exception.
No one forces motorists to overtake, and especially not on the near side, That is thier choice and a dammed silly one at that. In its self it is more dangerous than the slow vehicle in the middle or offside lane, because it is clearly an offence in the UK, and no driver should expect to find another vehicle moving up on thier near side. However when changing lanes it is of course essential to check both sides.
"It's still a free country, and as long as there is not a minimum speed limit in force, then a driver is free to travel at what ever speed they choose below the prevailing speed limit, provided they are not causing a hazard by doing so. It could be that the driver has some reason for only progressing at that speed."
Sorry to throw fuel on to this fire.... I was under the impresion that if a vehicle is able to travel at the legal speed limit that is or has to travel at that speed within 10% and an allowance of 3MPH.The 10% allowance is for speedo error and the 3 mph is a buffer for prosecution to show that you are above or below the shown speed limit and know that as the speedo error is not applicable.
SO 70 MPH Limit is upto 80MPH OR down to 60 MPH above that speed it is speeding and below that it is driving without due care or attention.Both of which are Illegal. Therefore strictly speaking there are minimum speeds for each road. Differing road conditions like rain,Fog and ice are at the discretion of the indevidual but the indicated speed limits have allowed for 90% of normal conditions. Driving too fast is said to cause accidents but one national paper has put
Sorry to throw fuel on to this fire.... I was under the impresion that if a vehicle is able to travel at the legal speed limit that is or has to travel at that speed within 10% and an allowance of 3MPH.The 10% allowance is for speedo error and the 3 mph is a buffer for prosecution to show that you are above or below the shown speed limit and know that as the speedo error is not applicable.
SO 70 MPH Limit is upto 80MPH OR down to 60 MPH above that speed it is speeding and below that it is driving without due care or attention.Both of which are Illegal. Therefore strictly speaking there are minimum speeds for each road. Differing road conditions like rain,Fog and ice are at the discretion of the indevidual but the indicated speed limits have allowed for 90% of normal conditions. Driving too fast is said to cause accidents but one national paper has put
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Dear Richard,
I still stand by my paragraph which you so kindly used to open your volley.
I have never heard of anything that even resembles your impression of an automatic minimum speed limit. Yes I have heard of drivers being prosecuted for driving without due care and attention, but it was not for travelling at 50 mph on a motorway near side lane (which is what the thread is about) it was for other misdemeanours.
Whilst is is not part of the original thread, you have raised the issue of fast driving. Driving faster does not automatically mean you are going to have an accident, but driving TOO fast does. Driving faster does mean that any mistake you do make will become more serious as the effect of any error will develop more rapidly, and you have less time to take corrective action. You will do more damage if you loose control.
None of these statements have made reference to speeding, which is a arbitrary figure imposed buy the authorities. Its imposition is not always solely to improve safety. therefore it is erroneous simply to think they are safe limits. The safe limit depends on the conditions prevailing at the time.
Conversely, reducing your speed gives you more time to correct errors and to keep things in control. Therefore it cannot be as dangerous as travelling too fast.
Of course there is a responsibility on all drivers to be aware of other road users, and to drive safely, but the onus is on the faster driver if and when they decide to overtake to do it safely.
Drive safely and live longer.
I still stand by my paragraph which you so kindly used to open your volley.
I have never heard of anything that even resembles your impression of an automatic minimum speed limit. Yes I have heard of drivers being prosecuted for driving without due care and attention, but it was not for travelling at 50 mph on a motorway near side lane (which is what the thread is about) it was for other misdemeanours.
Whilst is is not part of the original thread, you have raised the issue of fast driving. Driving faster does not automatically mean you are going to have an accident, but driving TOO fast does. Driving faster does mean that any mistake you do make will become more serious as the effect of any error will develop more rapidly, and you have less time to take corrective action. You will do more damage if you loose control.
None of these statements have made reference to speeding, which is a arbitrary figure imposed buy the authorities. Its imposition is not always solely to improve safety. therefore it is erroneous simply to think they are safe limits. The safe limit depends on the conditions prevailing at the time.
Conversely, reducing your speed gives you more time to correct errors and to keep things in control. Therefore it cannot be as dangerous as travelling too fast.
Of course there is a responsibility on all drivers to be aware of other road users, and to drive safely, but the onus is on the faster driver if and when they decide to overtake to do it safely.
Drive safely and live longer.
I also agree with John L. I recall as young lad in the mid 60s we had a 70 mph speed limit on motorways. In those days, 70 mph was FAST and my father used to travel at a more sedate 45-50mph. Today, whilst vastly improved car technology means that doing 70 can be relatively safe, we are all overlooking a major theme these past few decades - ENERGY CONSERVATION. Towing a caravan increases wind resistence substantialy and so, travelling at 50mph you are likely to consume substantially less fuel than by cruising at 60 mph. In addition, far from trying to speed traffic up, the M25 (for example) will consciously slow traffic to 40-50pmh in an attempt to regulate traffic flow; under no circumstances do we see mortorists being urged to travel faster!!
The message is clear; travel at a comfortable safe speed and, should you wish to save previous fuel, you are at liberty - even encouraged - to do so by travelling more sedately; which by the way is safer too (all caveats in other replies acknowldged re too slow etc).
John
The message is clear; travel at a comfortable safe speed and, should you wish to save previous fuel, you are at liberty - even encouraged - to do so by travelling more sedately; which by the way is safer too (all caveats in other replies acknowldged re too slow etc).
John
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I have been very surprised at some of the replies this thread has generated. With his opening submission, GrahamW made reference to a posting by "Mike" which I have not been able to find, but despite this, the debate has been quite interesting. It has allowed me to formulate a conclusion about the people who so virulently against the rights of slower drivers to use motorways and dual carriage ways.
I suspect that those people who are against slower drivers, are the ones who have at some time been involved in some event, where they know they were doing something silly, which resulted in some near or unfortunate event.
In truth they know they were responsible, but it make them feel better to try and blame someone else.
By having some else to blame they feel absolved of the responsibility, and justified in taking similar dangerous risks again. After all they believe it's not their fault if an accident occurs. And hey! The adrenaline rush is so good!
I do sympathise with the frustration that can develop when traffic moves more slowly that you would like. And I do also implore all drivers to watch their lane discipline, keep to the near side lane except to overtake. Where that isn't an option, and if you are travelling more slowly than most, pull over periodically and where it is safe to do so to allow other traffic past. Alternatively try to travel a little faster.
Well my friends learn to control your frustrations. Plan your journey giving you extra time to allow for hold ups, and always bear in mind that the fastest car is always at the back of the que, but its the slower guy at the front who gets there first!
I expect to receive brick bats for the above but I feel it is about time to conclude this topic, I refrained from perpetuating the discussion with Klarky earlier, now I will withdraw from this debate.
I suspect that those people who are against slower drivers, are the ones who have at some time been involved in some event, where they know they were doing something silly, which resulted in some near or unfortunate event.
In truth they know they were responsible, but it make them feel better to try and blame someone else.
By having some else to blame they feel absolved of the responsibility, and justified in taking similar dangerous risks again. After all they believe it's not their fault if an accident occurs. And hey! The adrenaline rush is so good!
I do sympathise with the frustration that can develop when traffic moves more slowly that you would like. And I do also implore all drivers to watch their lane discipline, keep to the near side lane except to overtake. Where that isn't an option, and if you are travelling more slowly than most, pull over periodically and where it is safe to do so to allow other traffic past. Alternatively try to travel a little faster.
Well my friends learn to control your frustrations. Plan your journey giving you extra time to allow for hold ups, and always bear in mind that the fastest car is always at the back of the que, but its the slower guy at the front who gets there first!
I expect to receive brick bats for the above but I feel it is about time to conclude this topic, I refrained from perpetuating the discussion with Klarky earlier, now I will withdraw from this debate.
" I, too, have never heard of of a minimum speed limit based on the maximum. Where on Earth did that information come from?"
This comes from information I was told about by a traffic cop who was with us when I took a motorcycle test a number of years ago... I know you can still be failed in your driving test for traveling at 40 in a 60 limit and some have been prosecuted for traveling too slowly when the road conditions would have allowed them to keep the flow of trafic ( The most noticable one was a team doing MPG tests in a Citroen on UK roads and the were fined when they were caught for a second time traveling well below the speed limit) The Police Officer who was with us was the officer who charged them with due care. There was also a case last year where a woman was charged for traveling too slowly but again this was in good road conditions and she was charged with Due care and fined
This comes from information I was told about by a traffic cop who was with us when I took a motorcycle test a number of years ago... I know you can still be failed in your driving test for traveling at 40 in a 60 limit and some have been prosecuted for traveling too slowly when the road conditions would have allowed them to keep the flow of trafic ( The most noticable one was a team doing MPG tests in a Citroen on UK roads and the were fined when they were caught for a second time traveling well below the speed limit) The Police Officer who was with us was the officer who charged them with due care. There was also a case last year where a woman was charged for traveling too slowly but again this was in good road conditions and she was charged with Due care and fined
Well said Richard, I have read all the replies to my thread and am still of the opinion that in good conditions it is inappropriate to travel so slowly on a motorway.
Graham....You are welcome.... I cannot see how drivers that feel 10MPH or greater BELOW the speed limit can say this is safe!! I lived in Suffolk for a number of years and was almost killed several times by accidents caused by drivers almost runing into cars driven by idiots who feel they can drive at their own pace !!! NOT TRUE and it is illegal. Stick to the speed limits!! Do everyone else a favour and then they may stop seeing all those crashes in the rear veiw mirror IF they use it!!
Richard, my step son has just been stopped by a Dorset Police Officer in a 50 MPH limit on a dual carriageway. The Policeman asked him if he knew the limit to which he replied ' Yes 50mph'. The Policeman said 'I clocked you at 49mph, watch your speed' and then cleared off.
Perhaps you could have a word with Dorset Police and the Camera Partnership who keep insisting in their propaganda that speed limits are not targets.
Perhaps you could have a word with Dorset Police and the Camera Partnership who keep insisting in their propaganda that speed limits are not targets.
Ray...How old is your stepson?? Also does he drive a pimped up car?? The police do pick younger drivers and cars that have a certain look just to make them aware they are being watched!!
In my late teens I and my friends would get pulled up on a regular basis and the record was 4 times in 3 hours...NOT prosecuted once, only stopped. No Offence commited either but just to put us off.
In my late teens I and my friends would get pulled up on a regular basis and the record was 4 times in 3 hours...NOT prosecuted once, only stopped. No Offence commited either but just to put us off.
Roger, he is 24 and drives a normal 1.8 Vectra P reg. He was stopped mid afternoon. I know what you are saying but its little wonder the police havn't got young peoples respect when they have this attitude problem.
Anyway don't start me on Police and camera partnerships, its a no win situation, some are for some against (same as 4 x 4 and 50mph drivers).
Anyway don't start me on Police and camera partnerships, its a no win situation, some are for some against (same as 4 x 4 and 50mph drivers).
Having followed similar topics over previous months led me to rethink my caravan driving tecnique, and I was quite surprised at my finding.
1 - in 1990 I experienced the event of my van turning over on the motorway. No other vehicle was involved with the exception of 2 large lorries in convoy passed at speed going down an incline which caused my van to start snaking. I was towing a ABI Transtar with a Audi 100. the van was a "write off" and as we were the only people involved and uninjured the police were excellent in all respects and assisted the recovery people in getting the car and van away from the scene.
2 years later we witnessed a similar happening whilst going downhill on a french motoway, which brought back memories of what happened to us. We subsequently gave up touring and went "static"
2 - after 10 years we decided to start touring again only to find that in general that cars were made lighter and vans were becoming heavier. thus making it more difficult to get good car/van MTPLM matching.
I bought a van which had a MTPLM of 1225 Kgs and my car a Mercedes C220CDi Auto with a towing capability of 1500Kgs.
Whilst this ratio was acceptable was a ok outfit I felt that the car was to light for the van. so I now have bought a Mercedes ML270CDi which can tow up to 3500Kgs.
Whilst driving on todays motoways I find that the general speed of all drivers has significantly increased.
I for myself prefer this method of driving on the motorway.
Drive in the "slow lane" and endeavour to maintain a speed of 50 mph. this allows the HGV which are governed to 56mph to pass easily (after all they can see ahead much better from their lofty position) and let them have the responsibility of judging when to overtake etc. I have also noticed that since being speed governed and with superior dynamics that buffeting has almost disappeared but we now get it from large box vans which are not required to be speed governed.
I now can proceed on my journey travelling at a average speed of 45mph and get to the end of that journey feeling no stress and not tired.
I do not intend to change my driving habits since acquiring the 4x4 knowing that SPEED KILLS. IMHO
1 - in 1990 I experienced the event of my van turning over on the motorway. No other vehicle was involved with the exception of 2 large lorries in convoy passed at speed going down an incline which caused my van to start snaking. I was towing a ABI Transtar with a Audi 100. the van was a "write off" and as we were the only people involved and uninjured the police were excellent in all respects and assisted the recovery people in getting the car and van away from the scene.
2 years later we witnessed a similar happening whilst going downhill on a french motoway, which brought back memories of what happened to us. We subsequently gave up touring and went "static"
2 - after 10 years we decided to start touring again only to find that in general that cars were made lighter and vans were becoming heavier. thus making it more difficult to get good car/van MTPLM matching.
I bought a van which had a MTPLM of 1225 Kgs and my car a Mercedes C220CDi Auto with a towing capability of 1500Kgs.
Whilst this ratio was acceptable was a ok outfit I felt that the car was to light for the van. so I now have bought a Mercedes ML270CDi which can tow up to 3500Kgs.
Whilst driving on todays motoways I find that the general speed of all drivers has significantly increased.
I for myself prefer this method of driving on the motorway.
Drive in the "slow lane" and endeavour to maintain a speed of 50 mph. this allows the HGV which are governed to 56mph to pass easily (after all they can see ahead much better from their lofty position) and let them have the responsibility of judging when to overtake etc. I have also noticed that since being speed governed and with superior dynamics that buffeting has almost disappeared but we now get it from large box vans which are not required to be speed governed.
I now can proceed on my journey travelling at a average speed of 45mph and get to the end of that journey feeling no stress and not tired.
I do not intend to change my driving habits since acquiring the 4x4 knowing that SPEED KILLS. IMHO
I for myself prefer this method of driving on the motorway.
Drive in the "slow lane" and endeavour to maintain a speed of 50 mph. this allows the HGV which are governed to 56mph to pass easily (after all they can see ahead much better from their lofty position) and let them have the responsibility of judging when to overtake etc. I have also noticed that since being speed governed and with superior dynamics that buffeting has almost disappeared but we now get it from large box vans which are not required to be speed governed.
I now can proceed on my journey travelling at a average speed of 45mph and get to the end of that journey feeling no stress and not tired.
I do not intend to change my driving habits since acquiring the 4x4 knowing that SPEED KILLS. IMHO
So let me guess you are late 50's to mid 60's of age.... Do not live close or use motorways on a regular day to day basis. You do not care that lorry drivers have a limited amount of time to get from one place to another at a limited speed. You dont care that forcing a lorry into the middle lane can cause a tail back with other cars having to slow to get passed the lorry which then causes other lorries to slow even more because they have to wait to get into the middle lane to get passed you because the traffic has started to build up behind you. All because you will not do an extra 6MPH to match the speed limited lorry. This is an example of driving without due care. IF an accident happened behind you, you feel that it is not your fault because the speed you are traveling is not causing any problem..WRONG..... You are the prime example of what causes problems and frustration with drivers who need to travel at the fastest possible speed (56MPH) to get their jobs done. Then all the others who also need to do their own jobs like van drivers and in some cases Ambulance drivers or other emergency services like the Police. If you cause a mobile road block the police cannot get to accidents which is bad but our other services like the ambulances could be too late to save a life if they need to use motorways to get to incidents or hospitals. You would not be aware as this tail back behind you has the services stuck because two lanes of the motorway are traveling at less than 60MPH and faster moving vehicles are now limited to one lane and have to filter behind the lorry to get passed one slow driver who will not think about his possible actions regarding all the other drivers who need to get passed.....ALL FOR 6 OR 10 MPH.If I saw this happening I would pull you over and tell you to either get off the motorway and use A or B roads to continue or speed up to keep with the flow of trafic.
By the way Due care caries 6-9 points but a few MPH over the limit carries 3 points. I cannot make you change how you drive but a court could for upto 12 months!!!
Yes speed can kill but if you stop the emergency services from doing their job you could have just killed the other person.
Drive in the "slow lane" and endeavour to maintain a speed of 50 mph. this allows the HGV which are governed to 56mph to pass easily (after all they can see ahead much better from their lofty position) and let them have the responsibility of judging when to overtake etc. I have also noticed that since being speed governed and with superior dynamics that buffeting has almost disappeared but we now get it from large box vans which are not required to be speed governed.
I now can proceed on my journey travelling at a average speed of 45mph and get to the end of that journey feeling no stress and not tired.
I do not intend to change my driving habits since acquiring the 4x4 knowing that SPEED KILLS. IMHO
So let me guess you are late 50's to mid 60's of age.... Do not live close or use motorways on a regular day to day basis. You do not care that lorry drivers have a limited amount of time to get from one place to another at a limited speed. You dont care that forcing a lorry into the middle lane can cause a tail back with other cars having to slow to get passed the lorry which then causes other lorries to slow even more because they have to wait to get into the middle lane to get passed you because the traffic has started to build up behind you. All because you will not do an extra 6MPH to match the speed limited lorry. This is an example of driving without due care. IF an accident happened behind you, you feel that it is not your fault because the speed you are traveling is not causing any problem..WRONG..... You are the prime example of what causes problems and frustration with drivers who need to travel at the fastest possible speed (56MPH) to get their jobs done. Then all the others who also need to do their own jobs like van drivers and in some cases Ambulance drivers or other emergency services like the Police. If you cause a mobile road block the police cannot get to accidents which is bad but our other services like the ambulances could be too late to save a life if they need to use motorways to get to incidents or hospitals. You would not be aware as this tail back behind you has the services stuck because two lanes of the motorway are traveling at less than 60MPH and faster moving vehicles are now limited to one lane and have to filter behind the lorry to get passed one slow driver who will not think about his possible actions regarding all the other drivers who need to get passed.....ALL FOR 6 OR 10 MPH.If I saw this happening I would pull you over and tell you to either get off the motorway and use A or B roads to continue or speed up to keep with the flow of trafic.
By the way Due care caries 6-9 points but a few MPH over the limit carries 3 points. I cannot make you change how you drive but a court could for upto 12 months!!!
Yes speed can kill but if you stop the emergency services from doing their job you could have just killed the other person.
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