A Tragic Lesson

[ProfJohnL]

We don't know the details from the information already disclosed, but some insurers will offer a discount on the premium if a caravan is stored at a Cassoa site. I must point out that the discount does not cover the additional cost that Cassoa sites usually charge

However if the punter did take the insurance on the basis of the storage being Cassoa registered, and the caravanner chose to move to a non Cassoa site, then the caravanner is in breach of their contracted arrangements.

If there was a discount applied for using a Cassoa site, then that is another reason the insurance company would be unhappy.

Cassoa do not officially claim or market their sites as offering improved security (Excuse me whilst cough loudly when I say that ) There can be little doubt if you were to ask caravanners who use them "Why they use a Cassoa site?" I'd bet a big majority would say they thought they were offering better security. I also I think if it were put to the test, the courts would agree one of their major selling points is indication of better than the rest security - however better minds than mine, tell me they would not be held responsible for any loss suffered to customers property - except if the customer could show the sites operators were negligent. .... but that's another threads worth.

 

[Buckman]

We don't know the details from the information already disclosed, but some insurers will offer a discount on the premium if a caravan is stored at a Cassoa site. I must point out that the discount does not cover the additional cost that Cassoa sites usually charge

However if the punter did take the insurance on the basis of the storage being Cassoa registered, and the caravanner chose to move to a non Cassoa site, then the caravanner is in breach of their contracted arrangements.

If there was a discount applied for using a Cassoa site, then that is another reason the insurance company would be unhappy.

Cassoa do not officially claim or market their sites as offering improved security (Excuse me whilst cough loudly when I say that ) There can be little doubt if you were to ask caravanners who use them "Why they use a Cassoa site?" I'd bet a big majority would say they thought they were offering better security. I also I think if it were put to the test, the courts would agree one of their major selling points is indication of better than the rest security - however better minds than mine, tell me they would not be held responsible for any loss suffered to customers property - except if the customer could show the sites operators were negligent. .... but that's another threads worth.

Correct about Cassoa sites as they are not even checked by any one and they take the word of the storage owner what is there and what is not there. We were on a supposedly Gold Cassoa, but the security was appalling with every Tom, Dick and Harry having access. We moved to another CASSOA site that was far more secure and the owner lived on site.

 

[otherclive]

Would a service like storage be covered by CRA 2015 as you are paying for a service? It may be a starting point if the caravan owner wants to claim off the storage however there are other issues that also need to be covered.

The caravan owner would need to gen up on the contract terms and conditions that were signed before deciding what action to take. I suspect that anything other than negligence, or non availability of security systems on the part of the storage provider is well covered to mitigate their liability for theft of the caravan.

 

[Beachball]

My caravan insurance ask me where it stored and the security and they are very happy with it to each its own

 

[otherclive]

Correct about Cassoa sites as they are not even checked by any one and they take the word of the storage owner what is there and what is not there. We were on a supposedly Gold Cassoa, but the security was appalling with every Tom, Dick and Harry having access. We moved to another CASSOA site that was far more secure and the owner lived on site.

I think that you should consider your statement. As the CASSOA website actually says that each site is visited by a independent risk assessor.

 

[Beachball]

Some years back we was on Gold Cassoa site extensive CCTV Palisade security fence to perimeter
Electronically controlled security gate with individual token access
Even the owners live on site
This place the security was first class

 

[Dustydog]

I have never been convinced the CASSOA rated storage sites are better than others. They almost exist to charge high fees. Their Contract is quite onerous heavily slanted in their favour. The following condition says it all!

“The Bailee excludes all liability for loss or damage where the means employed are in excess of the duty of due diligence”.

However they do employ a Risk Surveyor who checks the level of site security and then awards a rating certificate. How often these sites are checked is not stated.

 

[otherclive]

I have never been convinced the CASSOA rated storage sites are better than others. They almost exist to charge high fees. Their Contract is quite onerous heavily slanted in their favour. The following condition says it all!

“The Bailee excludes all liability for loss or damage where the means employed are in excess of the duty of due diligence”.

However they do employ a Risk Surveyor who checks the level of site security and then awards a rating certificate. How often these sites are checked is not stated.

I don’t think the ”condition” quoted is unreasonable given the type of business and service being provided. Our site has 500+ units and very good CCTV coverage but there will be circumstances were your van could be damaged by the neighbours carelessness, or someone could decide to try and steal something. As most vans in store aren’t visited that frequently even if there were CCTV coverage that scanned your immediate area, how long will recordings be retained. It’s not reasonable for the service provider to accept such risks.

 

[Buckman]

The caravan owner would need to gen up on the contract terms and conditions that were signed before deciding what action to take. I suspect that anything other than negligence, or non availability of security systems on the part of the storage provider is well covered to mitigate their liability for theft of the caravan.

That is a correct, but a private contract cannot over wrote legislation passed by parliament. In addition, there is the legislation Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts? TBH I think the storage owner may lose a court case if it was progressed further.

 

[Beachball]

I have never been convinced the CASSOA rated storage sites are better than others. They almost exist to charge high fees. Their Contract is quite onerous heavily slanted in their favour. The following condition says it all!

“The Bailee excludes all liability for loss or damage where the means employed are in excess of the duty of due diligence”.

However they do employ a Risk Surveyor who checks the level of site security and then awards a rating certificate. How often these sites are checked is not stated.

Hi DD that one i mention they do charge high fees but the one we are on now was from a recommendation and it very reasonable still got the security high fencing CCTV and wash down Facilities so far we have been very happy leaving our caravan

 

[Buckman]

I have never been convinced the CASSOA rated storage sites are better than others. They almost exist to charge high fees. Their Contract is quite onerous heavily slanted in their favour. The following condition says it all!

“The Bailee excludes all liability for loss or damage where the means employed are in excess of the duty of due diligence”.

However they do employ a Risk Surveyor who checks the level of site security and then awards a rating certificate. How often these sites are checked is not stated.

A CASSOA storage site that we used previously had been running for 18 months and no one from CASSOA had visited despite the storage site paying them a couple of hundred to be listed. I think CASSOA is American owned.

 

[otherclive]

That is a correct, but a private contract cannot over wrote legislation passed by parliament. In addition, there is the legislation Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts? TBH I think the storage owner may lose a court case if it was progressed further.

The legislation quoted was a SI embodying EU Directives into UK law. It has been superseded by CRA 2015 and in the subject under discussion it relates to the provision of a service. Given that CASSOA was set up at the instigation of an insurance company and that it has been running now for a good number of years I would think that their T&C have been scrutinised and stood the test of time. The key phrase being “ due diligence” is the one that the claimant would have to challenge. Cannot recall ever reading in various forums a successful case, although there may have been settlements.

https://www.geldards.com/the-consumer-rights-act-2015---unfair-terms.aspx

CASSOA under UK law is defined as an Association. It is based in Nottingham.

 

[Buckman]

The legislation quoted was a SI embodying EU Directives into UK law. It has been superseded by CRA 2015 and in the subject under discussion it relates to the provision of a service. Given that CASSOA was set up at the instigation of an insurance company and that it has been running now for a good number of years I would think that their T&C have been scrutinised and stood the test of time. The key phrase being “ due diligence” is the one that the claimant would have to challenge. Cannot recall ever reading in various forums a successful case, although there may have been settlements.

https://www.geldards.com/the-consumer-rights-act-2015---unfair-terms.aspx

CASSOA under UK law is defined as an Association. It is based in Nottingham.

CASSOA is supposedly American owned. Has any one challenged the T&Cs as they have probably changed since CASSOA first started.

 

[Dustydog]

I quoted the specific Contract term because imo it lets the site owner off everything. I cannot see how the Unfair Contract Terms Act can be involved as it is us guys who willingly sign it.

 

[Buckman]

I quoted the specific Contract term because imo it lets the site owner off everything. I cannot see how the Unfair Contract Terms Act can be involved as it is us guys who willingly sign it.

Does not matter if you signed willingly, it can still be an unfair term. Good examples were the banks and charges. They are lost! There is the possibility that you had no option except to agree to the terms unfavourable or not.

 

[Dustydog]

I take your point that you had no option but to sign if you want to use their facility. Sadly to the best of my knowledge no one has ever successfully sued a CASSOA owner for loss or damage

 

[ProfJohnL]

... I think CASSOA is American owned.

I'm not clear why that might be important, but what makes you think Cassoa is American owned?

Regardless of who owns the company, where it operates in the UK it has to abide by UK law and regulations.

(Edit) The registered address is in Nottingham, and the majority of the directors have British contact addresses, except one which was listed as Reykjavik, Iceland .

 

[Raywood]

The storage site we use is specified on the policy as I think they are on all current policies. The point is that it is CASSOA gold so has very good security. any other site is likely to be less secure, and if it was the premium would increase.
As for chasing the owners of the site, the only basis for this would be if the owner could be shown to be to some extent at fault or negligent, but this is usually very difficult.

 

[otherclive]

Wh

CASSOA is supposedly American owned. Has any one challenged the T&Cs as they have probably changed since CASSOA first started.

Where did you find the information that it is American owned? It’s not really possible to find out how many owners may have challenged CASSOA and how many may or may not have been successful. Perhaps you may have a source of information?

 

[Damian]

CaSSOA (Caravan Storage Site Owners' Association) was formed in 1999 by insurer AmTrust Europe Ltd and a small number of storage site owners in an effort to combat caravan theft. Since then, the organisation has grown significantly and is now a nationally recognised name

Filing history for AMTRUST EUROPE LIMITED (01229676) People for AMTRUST EUROPE LIMITED (01229676) Charges for AMTRUST EUROPE LIMITED (01229676) More for AMTRUST EUROPE LIMITED (01229676) Registered office address Market Square House, St. James's Street, Nottingham, England, NG1 6FG . Company status Active Company type Private limited Company Incorporated

 

[otherclive]

I'm not clear why that might be important, but what makes you think Cassoa is American owned?

Regardless of who owns the company, where it operates in the UK it has to abide by UK law and regulations.

(Edit) The registered address is in Nottingham, and the majority of the directors have British contact addresses, except one which was listed as Reykjavik, Iceland .

I’ve located the director who lives in Iceland. 😂

 

[Buckman]

Wh

Where did you find the information that it is American owned? It’s not really possible to find out how many owners may have challenged CASSOA and how many may or may not have been successful. Perhaps you may have a source of information?

As Damien pointed out CASSOA is owned by an American company. I have no idea if any one has challenged a site owner when their caravan has gone missing and at no time did I even suggest that I may access to that information.

 

[ProfJohnL]

As Damien pointed out CASSOA is owned by an American company. I have no idea if any one has challenged a site owner when their caravan has gone missing and at no time did I even suggest that I may access to that information.

Not that its relevant to the thread, but as far as I can see Damian hasn't named a country of ownership.

But to correct a misapprehension, The company is associated with an international business called
AmTrust Europe AmTrust Financial and according to their website they are a London based business.

What is relevant to the thread of course is that if a caravanner has suffered a loss whilst their caravan was stored at a site. I think it would be very difficult for a caravanner to find any legitimate reason to bring a case against Cassoa as you have no contract with them your contract is with the site.

 

[Buckman]

Not that its relevant to the thread, but as far as I can see Damian hasn't named a country of ownership.

But to correct a misapprehension, The company is associated with an international business called
AmTrust Europe AmTrust Financial and according to their website they are a London based business.

What is relevant to the thread of course is that if a caravanner has suffered a loss whilst their caravan was stored at a site. I think it would be very difficult for a caravanner to find any legitimate reason to bring a case against Cassoa as you have no contract with them your contract is with the site.

If you look up AmTrust it is based in New York with subsidiaries around the world.
Thanks for pointing out my mistake regarding CASSOA as I should have said the T&Cs in the contract between the site owner and the consumer which has nothing to do with CASSOA as they do not own any sites.
No one knows if any site owner has been challenged legally, but I suspect it probably has happened at some point however finding such a case may be difficult.

 

[Dustydog]

You will see from this there isn’t that much money involved and only two Directors.

CARAVAN SECURITY STORAGE LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

CARAVAN SECURITY STORAGE LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk