A38 Saltash Tunnel - new Speed Camera mugging devices

[cris_408518]

I find it a mystery as to how they give planning for large out of town shop developments that have local shops closing down and then blame us for driving to thse big free car parks and cheaper fuel.

Will the expect us to go by bus to Tescburys and Ikea in the future?

Has anyone noticed how quiet the kept about the disasterous use of Speed cameras over the M4 down Swindon way that are said to have been dropped now.

Even the signs saying they were there have caused chaos apart from accidents being blamed on the use of cameras.

 

[emmerson2]

surely, the major problem is not the camera posted where it is a safety, say outside a school for instance, but the cameras on an open stretch of dual carriageway which used to have a 70 limit, then it vernight it is dropped to 50 (nothiung else changed), and the camera appeared! Sorry Kevin H, but most cameras are just money earners. Someone already mentioned the untaxed, uninsured, perhaps stolen cars that speed with impunity because they cannot be traced. I nf the camera was replaced by a patrol car, they would be caught. Herself was done by camera on an empty dual carriageway two years ago at 10pm. No-one checked her tyres, lights, breath etc to see if she was safe to drive. They just relieved me of

 

[cris_408518]

It's a bit like the Poll tax.

If people don't think its fair they show no respect for it.

Pratling on about "its the law" is a waste of time.

They let people get away with drugs use now as they can't stop it they say, thousand drive under the influence of drugs let alone booze.

They will never stop speeding so they should make the speeding laws more realsitic.

 

[JimF]

I understand that with the 'average speed' type of camera, if you enter on one carrigeway, and leave the zone on the other carrigeway(assuming dual carrigeway)!, the cameras cannot average your speed. I am just making a comment not encouraging people to the break the law!

JimF

 

[emmitdb]

The bonkers thing about the Saltash Tunnel is that

1. It is not an accident blackspot.

2. Pedestrians,vehicles under 50cc and horse drawn vehicles are not allowed.

3. It is a three lane road with direction contraolled to allow for rush? hours.

Prior to the widening of the Tamar bridge (two hundred yards from the tunnel) there were camera's to catch the unwary in the centre of the bridge. I was told that they had to take them down because the bridge was in fact private property.(Dont know about the truth or otherwise.)

If they install a camera in the tunnel it will be seen as a pure profit making set up.

I have no problem with cameras per say but I do think they should be put where they can effectively assist in controlling speed at sites known to be a blackspot.

 

[JimF]

I understand that with the 'average speed' type of camera, if you enter on one carrigeway, and leave the zone on the other carrigeway(assuming dual carrigeway)!, the cameras cannot average your speed. I am just making a comment not encouraging people to the break the law!

JimF

I think I should have used LANE rather than carrigeway!!!

 

[cris_408518]

Average speed cams are set between two points on a road. The 1st camera reads the front number plate and then the second one reads the plate again at a maybe 1/2 a mile or even two miles or so on. The computer pairs that you have entered and left in a certain time and computes you aveage speed. To much over the limit and the fine lands in the post!

A colleague of my wife went to visit her seriously ill father 200 + miles from her home, unwell herself and recently divorced and not normally a motor way driver she slowed for motorway road works but did not see the "average speed cameras" signs. sShe tried to slow to the 40 MPH but had a huge truck flashing his lights at her and very very close, boxed in by other good vehicles she went with the flow forced to brake when the did for the second overhead camera. With no warnng two weeks later the fine and points paperwork arrived followed by a second lot from her dawn return Monday morning drive wher she'd had a simlar experience scared and intimidated on the M'way.

Appoaching retirement with a clean licence for nearly 40 years and on limite income needing a car for work she is now criminalised along with thousands of others along with the added insurance costs due to points and now the cecent rear end crash when she braked for a 40mph camera all through she was under that speed but panicked as she needs her license. The others drivers falt of course but not a lot of good to her.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

Speed cameras ,what a good way to combat congestion ;O)

About 3 per cent of drivers - 920,000 - are three points away from losing their licences, the usual penalty for speeding, according to the survey by Direct Line insurance

Source..

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/speed-camera-news.htm
Interesting site , give it a read.

Do cameras stop speeding ? , well I've got a clean licence so they must do........

Or maybe I just don't speed though cameras.

Brian (",)

 

[clivea]

Hi,

I think that it was Nottingham that borrowed quite a large amount to fund SPECS ona ring road. The business case was based on the number of cars that were exceeding 40mph before the SPECS were installed less a percentage for 'learning'. What happened is that Joe Car learnt that if you went above 40mph yoou would be fined, so kept to the limit. Result was that the Council were getting less income than the cost of financing the SPECS.

Is there a lesson here that 1 month keeping to limits all round could bankrupt partnerships?

Other Clive

 

[cris_408518]

When visisting a Nottingham client a while back I received a fax telling me about the Specs cameras. As soon as I went past the end of the zone it was like the F1 grid on race Sunday and the same at the end of the day going back the other way!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Kevin & Gooner,

Likewise I agree that if you don't speed then the cameras are not a problem,

But Kevin your assertion that there is a 10% allowance may be correct for some cameras and some authorities, but it is not universal.

There is no statutory lenience built into the camera setting so you cannot assume 10%. Some authorities are suggesting a zero tolerance should be adopted, and there is nothing in the regulations that will prevent it.

And for those who say 'its not turned on' well the same applies keep at or below the limit and you wont caught out when it is turned on.

I do not agree with all the limits that have recently been imposed around me, a stretch of open road was 50 is now 30! In fact my local authority seems intent on reducing all road speed limits by at least 10mph, setting traffic lights so they cause maximum delay, and not enough time to get more than 3 or 4 vehicles through at a time.

 

[cris_408518]

Some short time ago there was a report that most speed cameras have no kind of type approval re all the vehicles on the road and all conditions.

In essence they seem to work as far as any one knows , but they might not work in all sittuations and on all vehicles.

 

[trucker]

John L I dont agree with alot of the speed limits either but I value my licence alot more than some!

Cris as for a fomular 1 grid, does that not say that people disregard the law, wether they agree with the speed limit or not.

cris your statement that cameras are just another tax, what a joke, if people didnt speed then they wouldnt get "taxed" how simple is that??????

What a good way of cutting ones tax bill

What should be sorted is the idiots that speed and kill, just today another low sentence 10 years for someone speeding through a red light and wipped out a mother 2 kids and an unborn child

But dont worry speeding is ok as if you get caught its the govenments fault for putting a speed camera there!

 

[cris_408518]

Get real Kevin.

Its a Tax and money spinner, even the Police I know call the Mobile Camera vans that get parked on prime sites chosen as "most" drivers will be over the limit "Money Box Drivers"!

Putting cameras in stupid positions and boasting about how much they have coined in is doing what good in stopping speeding exactly.

The authorities cause bottlenecks and near gridlock and then blame all those desperate to catch up on a work agenda or their home life.

You can drive one busy road in a built up area that has a 60mph limit and is accident free in one area and then another that is the same and in a quieter area and suddenly gets a 40 limit and a camera tucked away.

You can drive at 81mph on a French twin lane motorway and be a danger to society on a less busy three lane UK motorway.

There is no set standard even for what roads have what limits. It's a ad hoc guess with funds from cameras spread around to attract the autorities to use them moore and more. They even describe the finances genearated as a benefit.

 

[Forbes1]

Its quite simple, stick to the limit and you won't get points and a fine! More importantly, the Casualty Reduction camera teams have to justify why the cameras are there. So question them! Here in Norfolk they've had to take some down recently as they could not justify why they were there so mucho egg on face!(Especially as they had disposed of the data!) The more we question them, the more hard work it is to get the sites, and the more we stick to the speed limit, and don't block junctions and generally be more courteous, the less congestion there'll be. Soap box away now!

 

[AndyR]

Hi,

I think that it was Nottingham that borrowed quite a large amount to fund SPECS ona ring road. The business case was based on the number of cars that were exceeding 40mph before the SPECS were installed less a percentage for 'learning'. What happened is that Joe Car learnt that if you went above 40mph yoou would be fined, so kept to the limit. Result was that the Council were getting less income than the cost of financing the SPECS.

Is there a lesson here that 1 month keeping to limits all round could bankrupt partnerships?

Other Clive

If this is the case, then surely this shows that the intention is NOT to make money out of these schemes, but that they are there to contribute to road safety?!

 

[AndyR]

Hi,

I think that it was Nottingham that borrowed quite a large amount to fund SPECS ona ring road. The business case was based on the number of cars that were exceeding 40mph before the SPECS were installed less a percentage for 'learning'. What happened is that Joe Car learnt that if you went above 40mph yoou would be fined, so kept to the limit. Result was that the Council were getting less income than the cost of financing the SPECS.

Is there a lesson here that 1 month keeping to limits all round could bankrupt partnerships?

Other Clive

If this is the case, then surely this shows that the intention is NOT to make money out of these schemes, but that they are there to contribute to road safety?!

 

[trucker]

cris, you need to get real!

Example: A30 east bound at Fingle Glen a speed camera put up a couple of yeas ago as the accident rate trying to cross the duelcarage way was bad. I currently drive my HGV past there at least once a day if not twice. People speeding upto the camera and then slamming the breaks on not down to 70 but just over the speed im doing, they dont even know the speed limit. Thats what causes the accidents not the camera.

As for the poor people trying to get home to there familys after a realy hard day, or trying to catch up on a work agenda and you tell me to get real!!!!!!!!

Another one of your statements "most driver" have you done a servey on a lage enough amount of drivers to qualify you making such a sweeping statement. NO

Oh and what has the French motorways got to do with our speed limits, but I dont see you mention the German autobans because they dont fit in with your argument that speed doent kill. I think you will find that the autobans have a very bad accident record as you well know.

One thing you keep on forgetting and cant argue against is that if people kept to the speed limit the "govenment" wouldnt be able to cream in millions out of the poor motorist

M5 exeter signs saying average speed cameras in operation through the road works, I drive down there to work every day and at least 5 people speed past me in that 2 mile stretch, cant they read or are they sooooo stupid to think they wont get caught.

When the cameras were first put up with the signs, 1000 people a day were being caught. what a bunch of idiots, but of course they were proberbly trying to get home to there familys 1 minute earlyer.

You make me laugh with this one mate

 

[cris_408518]

Maybe I never mentioned Germany because -

"The overall safety record of autobahns is comparable to other European motorways"

" Contrary to popular belief, only 40% of the autobahn has an unrestricted speed limit. The "recommended speed" is 130 km/h (80 mph)"

"The German autobahns are famous for being some of the few public roads in the world without blanket speed limits for cars and motorcycles. Lack of blanket speed limits does not appear to negatively impact the road safety of autobahns compared with motorways in other countries; motorways are safer than other road types"

"The average speed traveled on the autobahn in unregulated areas by automobiles not regulated by other laws is about 150 km/h (93 mph). On average, about three fourths of the total length of the German autobahn network has no speed limit, about one fourth has a permanent limit, and the remaining parts have a temporary limit for a number of reasons"

Germany has the highest number of cars in Europe I believe and a safety record that is on a par with ours. Autobahns are also patroled by unmarked police cars, if you take into account the unrestricted speeds in places and the average of over 90mph on those sections allowing drivers to put there foot down where possible seems to work pretty well.

It's just a pity that British authorities don't catch on to the problems they cause with their silly road speeds.

The point about people braking cameras still applies to people under the speed limit the camera is set for. My point re "most drivers" is based on data of Average UK motorway speed which is around 90 mph also there is oficial UK data that says over 57% of drivers exceed 30mph limits.

And Safety Camera Partnership operatives off the record have stated that they make more revenue by siting cameras where most drivers are over the limit due to the road or surrounding conditions such as change of speed limit not where the road is considered to be dangerous.

 

[cris_408518]

ps.

According to todays statistics it is more dangerous in an NHS Hospital than on our roads ;-)

 

[cris_408518]

Maybe I never mentioned Germany because -

"The overall safety record of autobahns is comparable to other European motorways"

" Contrary to popular belief, only 40% of the autobahn has an unrestricted speed limit. The "recommended speed" is 130 km/h (80 mph)"

"The German autobahns are famous for being some of the few public roads in the world without blanket speed limits for cars and motorcycles. Lack of blanket speed limits does not appear to negatively impact the road safety of autobahns compared with motorways in other countries; motorways are safer than other road types"

"The average speed traveled on the autobahn in unregulated areas by automobiles not regulated by other laws is about 150 km/h (93 mph). On average, about three fourths of the total length of the German autobahn network has no speed limit, about one fourth has a permanent limit, and the remaining parts have a temporary limit for a number of reasons"

Germany has the highest number of cars in Europe I believe and a safety record that is on a par with ours. Autobahns are also patroled by unmarked police cars, if you take into account the unrestricted speeds in places and the average of over 90mph on those sections allowing drivers to put there foot down where possible seems to work pretty well.

It's just a pity that British authorities don't catch on to the problems they cause with their silly road speeds.

The point about people braking cameras still applies to people under the speed limit the camera is set for. My point re "most drivers" is based on data of Average UK motorway speed which is around 90 mph also there is oficial UK data that says over 57% of drivers exceed 30mph limits.

And Safety Camera Partnership operatives off the record have stated that they make more revenue by siting cameras where most drivers are over the limit due to the road or surrounding conditions such as change of speed limit not where the road is considered to be dangerous.

Typo! 80mph is around the average UK motorway speed not 90

 

[vernon]

I've just Googled "Average speed cameras" and found this:-

"A massive flaw in a new generation of speed cameras means motorists can avoid fines and points on their licence simply by changing lanes.

The Home Office admitted last night that drivers can avoid being caught the by hi-tech 'SPECS' cameras which calculate a car's average speed over a long distance".

 

[Steve L]

There are several comments here that I can totally agree with.

Firstly, why on earth do the highways agencey build lovely dual carriageways only to paint out huge sections as no go area's and slap a 50Mph speed limit on them. It couldn't be road safety as all it does is encourage people to lane hog and slow the traffic to a crawl.

Speed camera's are only cash machines in disgusie and as for the latest technology of the switchable 20MPH speed signs outside schools they don't work because motorist's just ignore them.

I like most drivers want to make safe progress on the highway wether I am driving my car or a truck or towing our caravan, and from what I see on the roads today, it is the total arrogance and stupidity of the few that spoil it fort the rest. Yesterday I followed two lorries along the A40 between Monmouth and Newport for over two miles while they jocky'd for pole position of just who was actually going to overtake who. These two plonkers were so self centered that they did not realise or care that a tailback of about 100 vehicles was building up behind them. That's the sort of driving that our boys in blue need to sort out.

Finally I totally agree that the standard of driver awareness and control of their vehicle is the biggest single cause of accidents. With the advent of ABS braking, power steering, air bags, etc. We have all become detatched from the actual "feel" of how our cars perform and also lulled into false security that if things do go pear shaped then the safety features will protect and save our lives.

In the automated squirt and go modern car you the driver no longer need skill to drive. I just wonder how many of you know what double de-clutching is or the difference between rack and pinnion steering and a worm drive box. Or even why there are gear selection numbers as well as D, P, N and R on your auto gearbox selecta.

Now answer all those questions and you could start to call your selves trainee drivers.

Steve.

 

[Marc1]

I might believe speed cameras were defensable if the local authorities were not seen to be reaping the profits, or at least were seen to be using said profits on road safety projects. On a further note did any one see the programme on the tv showing the latest handhelds, the various mistakes, faults and blatent misrepresentation should surely cause these cameras to be recalled until they are reassessed.

Marc.

PS Just so the record is straight I have never had a speeding ticket despite driving for more years than I will admit to.

Marc

 

[alanlmc]

if it says 30 mph why do 40mph ...when people take their test no body breaks the speed limit then,,eats food..talks on a phone..why cant people take driveing as an art.. and accept laws and rules are there for every body and if you break them you can get caught..simple really