Alde Heating

[otherclive]

I thought you can run the Alde heating on electric, electric and gas, or gas only.

Can the heated fluid circulate solely by natural circulation without the need for a pump? If so how is the pump bypassed?

Both types, blown and liquid require a 12 volt supply to operate.

No they don't. The blown air Trumatic can be used solely as a gas fire where the heat is emitted from the panelled unit. So if your fan is broken or for some reason you don't have 240 or 12v ( saving battery) you can still use the gas heater. The Trumatic is ignited using 9v battery of which you will probably have three in the caravan. Trumatic, CO and Smoke detectors.

 

[VicMallows]

Mine doesn't even need a battery ...... and I have never yet known a piezo igniter to fail, other than due to crud on the electrode which of cause effects all types equally 🙂

 

[Danddandy]

We've had two caravans with Alde heating. The first had the pump in the header tank that you could hear at night. Also it had 2Kw maximum on electric which was slow to warm up. The second caravan had 3Kw maximum on electric meaning quicker warm up times. This newer system has an inline pump that is very quiet. (I haven't heard it yet)

 

[JTQ]

I thought you can run the Alde heating on electric, electric and gas, or gas only.

Can the heated fluid circulate solely by natural circulation without the need for a pump? If so how is the pump bypassed?

Both types, blown and liquid require a 12 volt supply to operate.

No they don't. The blown air Trumatic can be used solely as a gas fire where the heat is emitted from the panelled unit. So if your fan is broken or for some reason you don't have 240 or 12v ( saving battery) you can still use the gas heater. The Trumatic is ignited using 9v battery of which you will probably have three in the caravan. Trumatic, CO and Smoke detectors.

Then of course it is not operating as a "blown-air" system but simply as a single point convector, though that is better than no heat at all which most systems other than the Truma "S" unit offer.
My experience is that the "S" series worked well in small vans not needing heat pushed far from the heater unit, but they were pretty second rate in the larger vans we moved to owning. They also are very restrictive on van layout, the van has to facilitate the heating system, rather than a system that can facilitate virtually whatever layout one wants.
As mainly off EHU caravanners the 12 volt drain of all but convectors is of concern, but experience is that the Alde is pretty frugal and together with our 85 Watt solar panel is tolerable in weather we ourselfeves can also tolerate.
On another point, I have had to replace a fridge piezo igniter, years ago when they had them, but it was a doddle to do DIY and only cost a few £s.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Now everyone calm down.

Its not a matter to get all het up about.There is no need for unfounded claims suggesting that one or another systems do not work when there is more than ample history to the contrary.

We each may have a preference and that may just be based on prejudice, or a particular experience.

There can be differences in heat up performance, and their abilities to provide even heat throughout especially larger caravans. But those differences are not always down to the type of heating used, but quite often how the heating has been installed or set up. But the fact is both wet and dry systems can work and will heat up caravans. (anyone disagree?)

If you have only experienced a poorly installed or badly set up system it will tend to colour your opinion.

Unlike most caravanners I have been involved with actual testing of systems, and I can confirm that both types of system do have strengths and weaknesses, and to achieve a good result does require careful installation and setting up. Sadly caravan manufactures often don't design their caravans with the optimal heating layout in mind, so some caravans are going to struggle to see the most even results.

In some cases it can be quite simple to improve the manufactures installations, but other may require more work, or it may be impractical.

As for electrical power requirements, Obviously mains is required to operate any sort of mains element, and the wet systems do need to have 12V power to run the circulation pump, and control systems, but the convection gas heaters have more of a history of development over the years.

The earliest versions used a mechanical piezo ignition system, which required no electrical power. Auto versions of the earlier heaters used pen light batteries to power the igniters. More recent versions, which incorporate other functions such as blown hot air and or mains electrical elements have mixed requirements depending on the specific model variations.

 

[otherclive]

I thought you can run the Alde heating on electric, electric and gas, or gas only.

Can the heated fluid circulate solely by natural circulation without the need for a pump? If so how is the pump bypassed?

Both types, blown and liquid require a 12 volt supply to operate.

No they don't. The blown air Trumatic can be used solely as a gas fire where the heat is emitted from the panelled unit. So if your fan is broken or for some reason you don't have 240 or 12v ( saving battery) you can still use the gas heater. The Trumatic is ignited using 9v battery of which you will probably have three in the caravan. Trumatic, CO and Smoke detectors.

Then of course it is not operating as a "blown-air" system but simply as a single point convector, though that is better than no heat at all which most systems other than the Truma "S" unit offer.
My experience is that the "S" series worked well in small vans not needing heat pushed far from the heater unit, but they were pretty second rate in the larger vans we moved to owning. They also are very restrictive on van layout, the van has to facilitate the heating system, rather than a system that can facilitate virtually whatever layout one wants.
As mainly off EHU caravanners the 12 volt drain of all but convectors is of concern, but experience is that the Alde is pretty frugal and together with our 85 Watt solar panel is tolerable in weather we ourselfeves can also tolerate.
On another point, I have had to replace a fridge piezo igniter, years ago when they had them, but it was a doddle to do DIY and only cost a few £s.

I never claimed that the Trumatic on gas alone with no fan was ideal, but its a source of heat if you have no electric, or the fan fails. Alde or Combi cant do that.

 

[Dodger524]

I thought you can run the Alde heating on electric, electric and gas, or gas only.

Can the heated fluid circulate solely by natural circulation without the need for a pump? If so how is the pump bypassed?

Both types, blown and liquid require a 12 volt supply to operate.

No they don't. The blown air Trumatic can be used solely as a gas fire where the heat is emitted from the panelled unit. So if your fan is broken or for some reason you don't have 240 or 12v ( saving battery) you can still use the gas heater. The Trumatic is ignited using 9v battery of which you will probably have three in the caravan. Trumatic, CO and Smoke detectors.

Then of course it is not operating as a "blown-air" system but simply as a single point convector, though that is better than no heat at all which most systems other than the Truma "S" unit offer.
My experience is that the "S" series worked well in small vans not needing heat pushed far from the heater unit, but they were pretty second rate in the larger vans we moved to owning. They also are very restrictive on van layout, the van has to facilitate the heating system, rather than a system that can facilitate virtually whatever layout one wants.
As mainly off EHU caravanners the 12 volt drain of all but convectors is of concern, but experience is that the Alde is pretty frugal and together with our 85 Watt solar panel is tolerable in weather we ourselfeves can also tolerate.
On another point, I have had to replace a fridge piezo igniter, years ago when they had them, but it was a doddle to do DIY and only cost a few £s.

I never claimed that the Trumatic on gas alone with no fan was ideal, but its a source of heat if you have no electric, or the fan fails. Alde or Combi cant do that.

The OP did ask about blown air and a wet system.

As a back-up I carry a 2Kw fan heater, which counts a blown air I suppose. 😉

 

[Mel]

I have heard that the cost of changing the Heating fluid can be very costly this is not well advertised. .

Depends what you call very high. It's about £120 every five years if you employ your service engineer to do it as part of an annual service.

However originally the fluid in new vans (bought ours in 2015) had to be changed after 2 years initially. This may have changed on 2018 vans, best to check. You did well to get it done for £120. Ours cost at least £50 more with a mobile engineer who is competively priced on all other jobs.
Mel

 

[otherclive]

I thought you can run the Alde heating on electric, electric and gas, or gas only.

Can the heated fluid circulate solely by natural circulation without the need for a pump? If so how is the pump bypassed?

Both types, blown and liquid require a 12 volt supply to operate.

No they don't. The blown air Trumatic can be used solely as a gas fire where the heat is emitted from the panelled unit. So if your fan is broken or for some reason you don't have 240 or 12v ( saving battery) you can still use the gas heater. The Trumatic is ignited using 9v battery of which you will probably have three in the caravan. Trumatic, CO and Smoke detectors.

Then of course it is not operating as a "blown-air" system but simply as a single point convector, though that is better than no heat at all which most systems other than the Truma "S" unit offer.
My experience is that the "S" series worked well in small vans not needing heat pushed far from the heater unit, but they were pretty second rate in the larger vans we moved to owning. They also are very restrictive on van layout, the van has to facilitate the heating system, rather than a system that can facilitate virtually whatever layout one wants.
As mainly off EHU caravanners the 12 volt drain of all but convectors is of concern, but experience is that the Alde is pretty frugal and together with our 85 Watt solar panel is tolerable in weather we ourselfeves can also tolerate.
On another point, I have had to replace a fridge piezo igniter, years ago when they had them, but it was a doddle to do DIY and only cost a few £s.

I never claimed that the Trumatic on gas alone with no fan was ideal, but its a source of heat if you have no electric, or the fan fails. Alde or Combi cant do that.

The OP did ask about blown air and a wet system.

As a back-up I carry a 2Kw fan heater, which counts a blown air I suppose. 😉

Guess it would as long as you’ve got 240v. Actually the OP asked how long it would take his Alde system to warm up.

 

[thedoog1]

Well first time In our van today, and the Alde heating is bl**dy brilliant. Took about 45 mins to get to 21 degs. Plus the real benefit is it is virtually silent.

 

[Lappy]

Hi Steve,
I'm glad you're pleased with the Alde Heating System.
When we arrive on site, this is normally the first thing I attend to after levelling the van. I then sort the awning out and do the water last.
Using both Gas and 240v will help to heat the van up quicker, but if it's not too cold I just use 240v, as I have already paid for this in the pitch price.
Best of luck in the run-in and I hope you go up as champions. I think we may struggle to reach the play offs the way we are playing at the moment, but the Easter programme normally brings a few surprises.
Regards,

 

[thedoog1]

Hi Lappy, I just ran it off 240 even the other half likes it so it must be good. Barring disaster we should go up ok, but after supporting them for a very long time i take nothing for granted.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It's difficult to give a pressie length of time it will take for a caravan to warm up as there are lots of factors that will affect process in the real world.

Years ago I was involved with testing of caravan heating, and the procedure we used was to take a caravan and place it in an automotive environmental chamber which could control its temperature anywhere between -15C and +50C, A series of thermcouples would be positioned throughout the caravan and connected to a multipoint recorder.

All the caravan doors, windows cupboards and seats would be opened up and without the heater running, it would be cooled for at least 12 hours to +5C. When all the thermcouples were showing +5 (+/-0.5C) the caravan would be closed up, and the heater started.

The time it took for the combined average of the thermcouples to reach 20C was one of the important outcomes.

Having tested both wet and dry systems, there were certain characteristics of each type of heating that became apparent.

Here are a few generalised notes and comparisons:-

There are fundamentally two aspects of creating a comfortable warm environment, air temperature and material temperature.

Air is easier to warm up than solid or liquid materials. It's therefore easy to understand that a blown hot air system will warm up the volume of air quite quickly, but the fabric of the space may still feel cool to the touch. It will take some time for the warm air to transfer enough heat to the fabric of the caravan to make it all feel warm. Specifically in the case of caravans and motor homes, the blown air systems vents direct hot air into the living spaces which mean the volume of air in cupboards and bed lockers are not heated directly. This means the living space air will warm more rapidly than beds and other enclosed spaces. The fact the air is also being forced to move tends to mix it up more reducing the natural tendency for air to stratify becasue of its temperature dependant buoyancy.

By comparison, wet systems tend to have convection points often behind bed/seat backs, or dedicated radiators typically in bathrooms. The majority of heat is liberated by convection, and will immediately rise and collect at the top of the caravan, but it will also be heating more of the structure of the caravan as it does so and more of the enclosed space not part of the living area. This will mean the air temperature will increase more slowly, and becasue its not being forced to mix, it will also tend to stratify more with a bigger temperature difference from top to bottom.

I summaries the initial warming characteristics of each system as blown hot air warns from the core outwards, whilst the wet systems warm from the outside inwards. Which is most beneficial to the users can depend on how active you are. For instance if you are standing up, then you will benefit more from air temperature, but if you are sitting then your contact with the furniture will have a significant influence on how comfortable you are temperature wise.

Longer term after a about three hours or so the difference of the systems is less marked. and other factors start to have a bigger influence. The length of a caravan will adversely affect a blown air system more than a wet system for even heat distribution.

Wet systems take longer to recover lost heat when the door/window is opened.

Even though the individual components of a heating systems are manufactured to close and consistent tolerances, and are inherently reliable, Both wet an dry systems are adversely affected by poor design and assembly of the installation by the caravan manufacturers. Often cost cutting means less than optimal systems are installed.

In practice, there are other factors that also influence the performance of a heating system, For example Wind and Rain will strip heat away from any surface it falls on. the addition of an awning will reduce heat loss from that side of the caravan, by keeping the wind away, and possibly helping with a little insulation.

Humidity not only affects how quickly a volume of air will heat up, but also affects the feel and comfort. Each living being simply breathing (Approx. 200ml per person per day) will raise the level of humidity inside a caravan, and that not only affects the air but also the wood and other soft materials in the caravan which will absorb moisture, and can also be seen as condensation. Any open flame (hob and oven) or near boiling water will also raise the level of humidity.

By the same token sunshine will warm any surface it falls on, and of course sunshine entering through a window will also assist with heat gain.

So when you delve into the science behind it all it looks complex, but empirically blown hot air will warm the air in a caravan more quickly, progressively wet systems will catch up and after about 2 hours or so the differences between correctly set up wet and dry systems is barely worth mentioning.

This is all based on similar sized and constructed and used caravans.

 

[ericmark]

Never had liquid heating in a caravan, but had both in our houses, hot air heating moves the air around, this is both good and bad, means it heats things up fast and even, but increases losses through walls and windows, but main problem was noise.

The new system uses both, the liquid heats a radiator like in a car heater, so no huge pipes, and the fan speed varies to control output.

Taking house experience I would say hot air is better. Although more expensive to install and run.

 

[ProfJohnL]

... hot air heating moves the air around, this is both good and bad, means it heats things up fast and even, but increases losses through walls and windows,....

Sorry but this simply does not make any sense. Both hot air and liquid systems heat air in the van, assuming that the heating systems are both set to warm the caravan evenly, the the same amount of air will transfer the same amount of heat to both walls and windows.