Alko ATC - my opinions and experience so far

[Tim2]

Hi folks

After earlier discussions on ATC I thought you might like to hear how I'm getting on with it.

I had it fitted to our Bailey Senator Arizona (5 series)in May. CMI came to our home at a cost of £550 - more than at the Alko HQ but cheaper when travelling and lost work time taken into consideration. I, also, had Alko Shockabsorbers fitted at a subsequent service. There were some problems with the latter as the wrong size were fitted but that was rectified just in time for our trip to France.

We towed down from St Helens Merseyside to Dover and I was VERY impressed by the improved stablility despite some wind and lots of lorries, etc. Last Wednesday we crossed from Dover to Dunkerque with Norfolk Line. Very severe angle for loading on our 10.00 am ferry but I took it very slowly. However when returned to 'van to disembark Alko ATC LED was on RED should be green if working okay. Rush and panic to dig out handbook for ATC whilst other drivers waited with varying patience!!! I feared that ATC had been damaged during loading!!

Handbook said safe to drive but check with Alko. Tried unplugging and replugging 13 pin plug without any change in LED. Drove off ferry and stopped at first services. Green LED now showing but still phoned Alko and 3 very expensive mobile call, lunchtime at Alko, finally got through to Jane. She assured me that problem was because of voltage drop whilst 'van was parked up on ferry and that ATC would have reset itself after we began driving. It would have been helpful if the manual had warned of this and saved us a great deal of stress, expense and inconvenience!!???

400 miles on along French autoroutes shocks and ATC have continued to give a VERY STABLE and much improved tow at speeds of 60mph on cruise. I'm writing this on the banks of the Lake at camping Sologne in Sarblis.

So my verdict on ATC VERY PRICEY but cheaper than the results of a bad snake and generally much more stable and less stressful towing. I hasten to add that I still load the 'van carefully, check the noseweight and drive in a sensible manner additionally assisted by my straightliner stabiliser and, of course, the new Alko shocks.

Best wishes

Tim

 

[Lutz]

The AlKo ATC only deploys if there is a snake. It does not prevent a snake but kills it when it does happen. Therefore, if you do notice an appreciable improvement after having fitted the ATC unit, the outfit must have been very unstable before.

 

[Chrisbee]

Tim, you've just answered a question for me. When I reconnected my 7S plug after an overnight stop in Germany I too had a steady red light on the ATC led. I knew from the handbook that the outfit was ok to use and by the first stop it had changed to green. Thinking about it the car only just started and I have had to replace the car battery since I came home. I guess the voltage was too low but a note to this effect in the ATC instructions would be handy.

 

[Alan_374342797]

Hi

I think your stability improvements have really come from shock absorbers, I had them fit on my new Coachman, plus I also recommend having your wheels balanced.

I also believe the new ATC system will be prone to major problems with time for the following reasons,

Caravan brakes are only a token gesture, they are not ment to be continually hard braking to re aline your outfit.

Caravans spend a vast amounts of time in active, and brakes are prone to seize.

With the state of current caravan quality and dealers who are mostly rubbish, would you trust this design over sereral years without failure.

Caravans are very low tech when compared to the car industry improving braking, to me its like putting ABS on a Horse & Cart.

If a fault occurrs, whats to stop say 1 wheel hard braking and turning the caravan over at speed. When electrics control braking this is a possibility.

We have managed years without this system, get shocks and balance wheels and load correctly and you notice major improvements with mechanical improvements to your outfit.

I also have like many other new car buyers stability assist, standard on my new Honda CR-V.

These are my views as a Mechanical Engineer.

Good luck with your ATC, but no thanks I will trust mechanical improvements.

Best Regards

Alan

 

[Lutz]

I think you have failed to understand the operation of an electronic stabiliser, Alan. It does not apply the brakes constantly, but only when the caravan (or trailer) goes into a snake. It senses the lateral acceleration caused by the instability and only when this exceeds a defined threshold value does it apply the brakes. A well balanced outfit will therefore only experience deployment of the brakes in an emergency.

I have the LEAS electronic stabiliser which works on the same principle as the AlKo ATC, but it includes a warning buzzer in the towcar. In the 3 years I've had it fitted, the buzzer has only sounded once.

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Alan,

You can't have it both ways - if caravan brakes are a token, then they can't also brake one wheel so hard that it would cause the caravan to turn over...

On that subject, the AL-KO system applies pressure to the brake balance bar under the caravan - and this applies equal braking effort to both sets of wheel brakes.

And whilst you trust mechanical improvements and denounce electronic braking control, you also seem happy to have TSA as a standard feature on your new CR-V - well that's a purely electronic system...

Robert

 

[Chrisbee]

I've covered nearly 2000 miles in Europe in the last couple of weeks with some very windy weather and at a reasonably high speed when safe and legal. Not once did the ATC kick in but as I have a well matched and correctly loaded outfit including shock absorbers and Al-ko stabiliser I wouldn't expect it to. It's a "belt & braces" item but it only has to work the one time you get caught out to make it worthwhile having it fitted.

Alan saying that we've managed without ATC in the past is true, we also managed without ABS and airbags on our cars but I'm glad I have them fitted to mine. Like the ATC, I don't know if the air bag will work if needed, I just hope it does.

 

[Oldfogey]

Personally, I find it quite astonishing that shock absorbers are not fitted as standard on all caravans. Rubber torsion suspension is, frankly, not the same thing and evidence of the way the industry spends money on appearances rather than substance.

My 80s 14' Sprite has "proper" suspension, and in all conditions behaves beautifully, with no stabiliser fitted - though admittedly it's behind a Range Rover.

My fear is that as ATC becomes standard, 'van manufacturers will pay less attention to designing in stability, assuming the ATC can deal with it, so that you end up with vans more likely to start a snake and rely on the system to control it!

 

[Lutz]

I think there is little danger of that, Oldfogey, because the ATC unit does not become active until after the instability has started to occur, i.e. you still notice that something is amiss before ATC steps in and puts it right. The very fact that you still experience instability despite ATC means makes it unacceptable to offer a product which relies on ATC to keep it stable.

Besides, if ATC deploys very often, i.e. the brakes on the caravan are applied a lot, there is a danger of brake fade and, above all, fuel consumption would increase drastically as the caravan would constantly be tugging excessively at the towcar.

 

[Alan_374342797]

Lutz

There is a major difference between the car industry developing stability assist and the caravan industry developing ATC that they probably hope you dont need to use too often.

Ask ALKO as I did if they thought 200 gram out of balance in my wheels was too much on my new van, they fobbed me off saying they dont need balancing, thats nearly 1 lb out of balance each side. They dont even check them so how do they no you havent got oval wheels.No jack for the chassis, poor tyre quality, it goes on and on, the caravan industry is very poor, their braking system is very old design and as I have stated in my previous mail a token effect that doest not compare with any car braking of disc brakes under hydraulic actuation.

Even with a car, try stopping it from high speed with the handbrake.

Noticed Explorer group are balancing their wheels now, and Swift are fitting shocks, but they have all been saying they dont need them.

We all have an opinion, I hope the ATC is a success for the caravan industry, but lets see in a couple of years what we really have.

Alan

 

[Lutz]

One cannot compare the conditions that cars are subjected to with those of caravans. Their speeds are higher for a start, as also acceleration both in a straight line and when negotiating bends. The conditions that apply to caravans, on the other hand, are much less diverse than cars. The only really serious demands on the caravan chassis are in the event of an emergency stop. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that the design of caravan chassis differs vastly from that of cars. I agree that there is room for improvement, but nevertheless this would not warrant the sophistication of a hydraulic braking system, for example. Where would the line pressure for the hydraulic system come from, for a start? The biggest shortcoming that I see caravan chassis suffering from is their liability to brake fade and this is the area where I would like to see a concentration of engineering effort. However, this is a challenge that should be able to be accomplished even with a mechanical braking system. Bigger brake drums would be a relatively simple measure, for a start.

 

[gary]

First Alko have nothing to do with wheels and tyres, this is a separate supply issue purely up to the caravan manufacturer, I do totally agree though, balance is very important but even the Caravan Club say it isn't!! stupid advice IMO

Next though, why would drum brakes be considered somehow inferior? or to compare them with handbrakes on a car?

To my mind drums are ideal for the purpose being to some extent self operating once the initial movement from the overrun pushes shoe in contact with drum.

The overrun itself is being pushed by the weight of the van so no comparison with a hand brake lever or your foot, servo assisted or not. No, it will push and apply the brakes exactly the right amount at all times, (adjusted correctly).

It might by it's age be old fashioned system but leave it just as it is for me, simple and effective.

ATC is a extra like a stabilise that should hopefully not be needed, in that sense it's a very useful safety device which should to my mind be fitted as commonly as the stabiliser?.

As I've read and speaking to Alko, it operates gently but very early in the initial stages of a 'sway' and corrects this long before a full blown snake would occur. This then should be barely detectable and also not have any particular effect on the effectiveness of the brakes

The ATC cannot not however have any possible effect on general stability, this will be down to the shockers.

As I found when fitting them to our van, depending on how poor the van is beforehand, shockers can make quite dramatic differences.

So fit ATC by all means but for a noticeable every day experience, always have wheels balanced and fit shockers, correctly adjusted the brakes will be fine IMO!

 

[WatsonJohnG]

One cannot compare the conditions that cars are subjected to with those of caravans. Their speeds are higher for a start, as also acceleration both in a straight line and when negotiating bends. The conditions that apply to caravans, on the other hand, are much less diverse than cars. The only really serious demands on the caravan chassis are in the event of an emergency stop. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that the design of caravan chassis differs vastly from that of cars. I agree that there is room for improvement, but nevertheless this would not warrant the sophistication of a hydraulic braking system, for example. Where would the line pressure for the hydraulic system come from, for a start? The biggest shortcoming that I see caravan chassis suffering from is their liability to brake fade and this is the area where I would like to see a concentration of engineering effort. However, this is a challenge that should be able to be accomplished even with a mechanical braking system. Bigger brake drums would be a relatively simple measure, for a start.

Hi Lutz

Agree once again but just to say some mountain bikes do operate with hydraulic brakes(pressure comes from the brake lever being squeezed) but that would be just a matter of using the fluid in the same way as a cable and little advantage.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Its interesting asking people how they find their ATC

I asked some people on a rally in France last month and one person said that it was great and stopped that sucking feeling when overtaken by lorries and another said that you could feel it braking one wheel !

The 2nd guy also had self levelling hydraulic suspension on his new Citroen 4 X 4

 

[Lutz]

Just goes to show how little some people understand about the workings of the ATC. It can neither stop the "sucking feeling when overtaken by lorries" nor does it brake one wheel only.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I think that its had a lot to do with the wet weather as well

 

[Chrisbee]

Its interesting asking people how they find their ATC

I asked some people on a rally in France last month and one person said that it was great and stopped that sucking feeling when overtaken by lorries and another said that you could feel it braking one wheel !

The 2nd guy also had self levelling hydraulic suspension on his new Citroen 4 X 4

A bit like asking people how they get on with their car's SRS system?

 

[allen1]

Hi,I have a compass Rallye 644 which is a t/a it has a BPW chassis and a Vtech swing system,it also has shocks and balanced wheels and is as solid as a rock in windy conditions going over the Orwell bridge and when overtaking lorries on the motorways,and responds very well when I had to change lanes under heavy braking,can anyone tell me the difference between the BPW and the ALKO system apart from I have no red or green lights and I didnt have to pay for it.

 

[Lutz]

To my knowledge, no caravan manufacturer which uses BPW chassis offers an electronic stabiliser system like the AlKo ATC yet, so your caravan will not have one. The BPW equivalent, IDC, is a relatively new product which is just starting to appear on the market. The V-Tech system that you are referring to only describes a chassis design and has nothing to do with an active electronic stabiliser.