Aluminium window frames

[Mikey1]

I went to the show last week with the intention of buying a Sterling or Conqueror.

I ask the various people on the stands sales and swift staff and they have never known of any complaints or any issues.

I mentioned about the caravan forum and got a "whatever" look.

I didnt buy one.

 

[Dustydog]

Bigfoot

As far as I know only the Bailey Senator range have ally window frames . I imagine Swift too, have only fitted them to their top ranges eg the Conquerors and Sterling Elites.

Best thing is get down to your dealer and check it now. Don't forget manufacturers reserve the right to alter specifications whenever they want.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Alex_374296729]

I went to the show last week. Looked at a Challenger and the windows seemed to be the old style whereas the Conq was aluminium. To be honest if this forum had not highlighted the issue you would not notice them.

Hope I did not see them on Challenger as I will get one next.

Alex

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

alan, im keeping a close eye on this post. i am going away this weekend so i will be keeping my eye on the condensation.

im off to tescos now to buy some more kitchen roll for the weekend.

it seems to me that these old style windows are putting people off.

alan if you want to email direct then please do so, as some times things are best done via email if you know what i mean.

moderator please can you forward my email address to alan.

jo-anne

 

[Dustydog]

Will do Jo-anne,

Where are you going? Have a good time.

Any news etc I'll e-mail you.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Jan_374241992]

I have discussed this post and your concerns with Polyplastic directly whilst at the NEC show and they will be putting on a statement on here in the next couple of days.

Regards

Kath

Kath - having read their website they definitely say on their "condensation" page not to accept metal framed windows - can someone explain at Swift WHY they were fitted on the vans. Is it a case of aesthetics before common sense????

Shame but my Sterling is such a good van apart from the soaking window frames in cold weather (up here we consider "cold" as below freezing) - going to be a total pain when we are in the Alps with the van.

Jan

 

[Ian341]

Hi all,

Jo-anne we have the same problem with our 2000 Challenger 500 with condensation forming in the lockers above the bed. On our last trip away we kept the pillows from the front bed in there and took them out that night to discover they were really wet.

What we do now is leave the locker doors open slightly so that they arent completely shut then the heat from the van will circulate in there and now we have had no more problems even in freezing temperatures.

Our friends have a Sterling Elite Explorer and they have this problem with the condensation forming especially on the bedroom windows. It was so bad that I believe it had overflowed and was running down the walls.

Surely this had been thought out before they made vans with these windows ????

Ian

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

so no more words from swift then. no words at all from miriad products. no words from bailey as yet.

jo-anne

 

[ValA.]

I bet they're panicking! These problems are taking van design back thirty years (anyone remember when caravans had aluminium strips joining the internal roof panels, when the condensation used to drip on your head????). The windows look 'modern' but in fact are not fit for purpose (ie caravanning without damp) and the manufacturers are probably just realising that the 's..t has just hit the fan'. I'd await their comments (if any) - and then threaten small claims court action for the cost of replacing the windows with something which is fit for purpose according to the Polyplastic website!!! Those windows fitted to the cheaper Baileys and Swifts will presumably fit anyway as the models are much the same. Make sure you have a 'hard' copy of the website details about condensation as this is damning evidence which you can use to support your argument that the windows are useless.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

hi val, i hope you are right and it can be sorted. i have a new 08 sterling elite onyx which has the new windows but mine arnt the same as the other models because they are actually fitted flush to the sides of the van. unlike the europa and the eccles where they actually stick out like other windows if you know what i mean im not great at explaining things.

jo-anne

 

[STEVE_5041381]

Looked at the 2008 Pageants could not see any alu windows I did

specifically look out for this - so as I couldnt see any I bought one.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

steve, i wish we had known about the windows problem. we proberbly would have gone for a eccles or a different manu.

what would you guys do in mine and alan position now?.

jo-anne

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

We have a 2006 Bessacarr with the aluminium window frames and can honestly say we have never had any problems with excessive condensation, certainly not enough to warrant wiping with kitchen roll.

We were out in our caravan the weekend before last, the temperature was -6 degrees, and there was only a few beads of condensation on the windows, and as expected, nothing within the 'van.

We have the Alde heating in our 'van, it remains at 15 degrees at night. I don't know whether constant temperature makes a difference, we do not have the windows on night latch either!!

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

thanks wendy for that. swift said they have never had a problem before so im wondering if there a faulty batch of the frames or if the have changed materials etc etc.

still waiting to here more from swift and polyplastic.

jo-anne

 

[Bigfoot]

Spoke to the dealer... Had never heard of any problems, said they don't bother looking at things like the PC Forum!!!!.

Anyway I'm assured the caravan We're getting doesn't have Ally frames.

 

[Richard_374349503]

Sorry for the delay in this comment but I want to set the record straight about the 'Condensation advice' on the Miriad website.

The guideline was produced using some previous documents issued by Polyplastic in the early 80's and whilst still current, does have one point that causes ambiguity. The 'metal framed' windows referred to are the much older variant of metal framed windows that tended to be glazed with glass panels....hence the next comment "Fit Polyplastic double-glazed acrylic"..pointing out the benefits of double glazed windows per se. These older varieties of metal frames were a very simple metal profile with no cold-bridge insulation properties whatsoever employed. This line in no way refers to the Polyvision windows now fitted throughout Europe.

The line referring to metal framed windows has now been removed to avoid any confusion.

As regard to the information detailed within this thread about condensation, then I would have to concur with the thoughts of JOHN L on 21st Feb entirely. Condensation is a natural phenomenon that results from humidity, especially so during an overnight period if the caravan is not well ventilated. The temperature outside the caravan being drastically different to that inside the caravan, literally can cause a badly ventilated caravan to 'sweat'. JO-ANNE'S initial comment on 16 Feb and indeed IAN-SWIFT's comment of 27 Feb underline this, with excess humidity in both instances resulting in severe condensation build-ups on internal walls and within lockers. If humidity has risen to this extent, then it is no surprise that condensation is evident too on window frames. Ventilation really is the key!

The Polyvision windows supplied by Polyplastic are manufactured using a complex aluminium profile that includes a Polyeurathane cold-bridge to help with insulation. For the last 7 years approx 100,000+ Polyvison windows have been supplied each year throughout Europe to such customers as Dethleffs, LMC, Knaus, Hobby, Giotti and Le Voyageur, as well as Swift, Bailey and Vanmaster within the UK. Speaking from our experience within the UK, we do receive some queries each year about condensation on windows (in general, not just Polyvision) and in all instances ventilation, resulting in temperature stabilisation is the answer..just like at home, if a window shows condensation upon it, you would open it (ventilation) to clear it????

After writing this I have spoken to JO-ANNE in an effort to explain the above. Hopefully this helped clarify the situation.

Richard Toon

Miriad Products Limited

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Thanks Richard for putting your company's opinion across and trying to put our minds at rest.

I am going away this weekend so i will try and find a happy balance with the heating etc. As i discussed with you Richard I cant for medical reasons have my windows on night vent. However I will be having our main fixed bed window on night vent.

Richard did explain to me the more i use the van and air it the less condensation it will get. As i previously stated on my last trip after about 3 nights it did settle down.

I will keep you all posted on this issue.

i love the van to bits and i cant really fault it so fingers crossed for the weekend.

thanks again Richard for ringing me and putting a post on here.

jo-anne

 

[Dustydog]

HI Richard

I'm thick.

Are you saying the things on your website are inaccurate?

Look , for me it's simple. I've had caravans since 1978 and over the years materials and manufacturing processes have , on the whole moved forwards. The Baileys and Swifts for 2008 with aluminium window frames have gone back in time and reintroduced a problem that was eradicated in the 80s. My series 5 Bailey Pageant never had condensation on the frames. My 2008 Bailey Wyoming does. THIS CANNOT BE CORRECT!!So do the tops of the Swift Group ranges.

WHY OH WHY have you gone backwards???

All us poor old caravanners want is a troublefree all year round caravan which on our meagre budgets we thoroughly enjoy.

So how are you going to resolve our problem please?

It is totally unaceptable today to be sold something that does not perform.

I and the other forum members look forward to hearing from you asap.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Richard for putting your company's opinion across and trying to put our minds at rest.

I am going away this weekend so i will try and find a happy balance with the heating etc. As i discussed with you Richard I cant for medical reasons have my windows on night vent. However I will be having our main fixed bed window on night vent.

Richard did explain to me the more i use the van and air it the less condensation it will get. As i previously stated on my last trip after about 3 nights it did settle down.

I will keep you all posted on this issue.

i love the van to bits and i cant really fault it so fingers crossed for the weekend.

thanks again Richard for ringing me and putting a post on here.

jo-anne

Jo-anne

See my last posting to Richard.

Has he fobbed you off??

What did he say on the phone?

Cheers

Alan

 

[Richard_374349503]

Hi Alan,

Basically I am saying 'yes' , that piece info on our website was inaccurate....or to put it better, out of date...in so much as it was a direct reference to metal framed glass windows of years gone by....windows that had no insulation properties whatsoever. The Polyvision windows are a totally different animal, using a complex profile employing a Polyeurathane insulation strip through it's core.

I stand by my comments earlier about useage and ventilation...the windows do not 'fail' in their performance, they simply show the signs of extreme humdity build up......as seen by Jo-anne and Ian-Swift on their interior walls and in lockers too....humidity that if correctly ventilated would disappear.

As for an explanation as to why your previous caravan showed no signs of condensation and your new one does.....well there are too many aspects to consider......such as differences in in-built ventilation, differing internal layout, ventilation from heater/fridge/cookers etc......even general climatic conditions if we look at ALL aspects. Condensation on windows is merely a manifestation of humidity build ups...with the windows themselves NOT being the cause.

Again, as I stated previously....ventilation is the key.

Richard

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

alan, richard said to me exactly what he has said in his post.

i wish the mods had given you my email address its just i dont want to advertise it on here. do you have email contact with LMH? if so she has my email address.

im not prepared to have my windows on night vent when its cold and i didnt buy the van to do that. i didnt have this problem with my avondale at all and that was

 

[ProfJohnL]

Fao Richard Toon of Mirad Produtcs

If I have understood correctly, Jo-Anne has twice mentioned that you have told her that the more she uses the caravan the less likely she will develop condensation.

I would be very interested to know what your reasoning behind this is. Please post your explanation.

 

[Jan_374241992]

Richard - I am sorry I do not accept your comments - we have caravanned since 1978, most years using our caravan to ski in for at least 2 weeks, even in the days of poor insulation and glass windows. Plastic windows saw the virtual eradication of early morning condensation, we have now had metal framed windows on our last two Swift stable vans (a Bessacarr and now an Eccles) both vans had and have a problem with heavy condensation in very cold weather. We are talking of weather when it is too cold to have windows open - you don't seriously tell me that you sleep with a window open next to you (the night setting is just that - a window slightly open) when the outside temperature is minus 10!!

This is a retrograde step for caravan manufacturers, maybe not many people complain because they think it is their fault or don't use their vans in extreme conditions. The vans fitted with Alde heating probably don't have the same problem as there would be radiators under each window which would effectively dry up the moisture.

I am hoping to buy some of the sponge type tape which we used to put on the frames years ago to soak up moisture ready for our next trip away - saves spending time wiping all the moisture next morning. I am certainly not going to open the windows all night and freeze or turn off the heating completely so that the water system freezes up.

From one very disappointed user

Jan

 

[ValA.]

Alanm Jo-anne, Jan and anyone else - it struck me that the problem may not arise with continental vans because of the much better standard of insulation, and the different heating systems - most of them are designed for winter as well as summer caravanning, where most British models are designed for (if not used for) three seasons only. Maybe this is why you're having problems - I still think there's more of a case to be answered by the window manufacturers, and yes the problem may go away during the warmer months, with the windows open, and on longer trips, but you may only notice any long term problems AFTER your warranty runs out. After all, a continuous drip, drip, drip, of condensation (which must be running down the internal walls) can't be good for your van. Personally I think you're being fobbed off and that these windows are not good for the great British climate.

 

[SwiftGroup_374327846]

Swift have been successfully using aluminium framed windows since 2004. We have no plans to change this.

The windows are not defective.

No more posts will be added to this thread by Swift or Polyplastic.

If you have individual concerns, please contact our customer careline on 01482 875740 or email enquiries@swiftleisure.co.uk

Regards

Kath