Aluminium window frames

[Dustydog]

Well Well

If ever I have heard a "get stuffed" comment / statement Kath's last one is it. Do I detect someones solicitors or Product Guarantee Insurers have appeared on the scene and told you all to shut up??

Fact: Aluminium window frames are causing significant condensation during winter periods.

Fact: 21st century caravans should not contain materials which over time may be deleterious to the caravan's health.

Fact: It is totally unreasonable to expect people to sleep with open windows in sub zero temperatures.

And I could go on and on.

Look , Kath,

all we poor caravanners want is a sensible solution to a reasonable problem that has been reintroduced by the use of aluminium frames.

Maybe your boffins could design some kind of night protection system that can be attached to the frames and removed in the mornings. Hopefully the problem is limited to winter caravanning?

Jo-anne,

we can talk on monday.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Chrisbee]

In the far east where it is very humid condensation will form on the outside of the window glass if you have the air conditioning running in the hotel room. How ventilated do you need the open air to be to stop it?

Chrisbee

 

[Dustydog]

Chrisbee and others ,

There is nothing at all wrong with the Polyplastic window itself. It is the "non opening" aluminium window frame inside the caravans that are causing the problem.

Jo-anne is monitoring the problem in her caravan this weekend .We will talk privately next week and try and sensibly resolve the issue.

Val

I need to check upon the insulation thing. All UK caravans are built to the National Caravan Council guidelines on insulation etc and I don't think they are necessarily inferior to European manufacturers. Our Geist will know more than me on this aspect.

Let's hope Swift , Polyplastic and others can come up with a solution.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Chrisbee]

Chrisbee and others ,

There is nothing at all wrong with the Polyplastic window itself. It is the "non opening" aluminium window frame inside the caravans that are causing the problem.

Jo-anne is monitoring the problem in her caravan this weekend .We will talk privately next week and try and sensibly resolve the issue.

Val

I need to check upon the insulation thing. All UK caravans are built to the National Caravan Council guidelines on insulation etc and I don't think they are necessarily inferior to European manufacturers. Our Geist will know more than me on this aspect.

Let's hope Swift , Polyplastic and others can come up with a solution.

Cheers

Alan

Hi Alan

Just making the point that it is temperature/humidity differences that cause condensation. I take delivery of my new Bailey tomorrow, no ally frames so no worries.

Chrisbee

 

[BrianStAlbans]

I think the manufacturers have wasted a golden opportunity here to get real life feedback,product testing from real life end users. And free of charge at that!

I'd say no amount of complant will stop the use of these frames so the only alternative is to not buy them in future. Probably no good for those who already own them but I'm sure it will effect your decisions when it comes to replacement.

From reading this thread I would certainly not buy a van with them fitted and from the final "get lost" post probably give Swift a wide berth too.

Customer care....whats that then?

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Alan

Just making the point that it is temperature/humidity differences that cause condensation. I take delivery of my new Bailey tomorrow, no ally frames so no worries.

Chrisbee

Hi Chrisbee

Our previous Pageants had no ally. Never had a problem. We didn't think about the ally being a problem when we chose the Wyoming.

It's not right thatthe condensation forms as it does. I have asked Bailey, privately to try and find a solution.

Swifts and Polyplastics last statement tell me in no uncertain terms there is a problem!

Enjoy your new caravan an dmake sure your dealer talks you through evrything even to making him connect up the water and electricity.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Markwant_5113193]

Regarding the alu window issue; as Richard already said, a lot has to do with proper ventilation inside the caravan. And there are big differences in the way caravan manufacturers are incorporating ventilation as an interior designfactor. When you look at the 'best on the market' look at the scandinavian vans. These brands (Kabe, Cabby, Polar en Solifer) are specifically made for temperatures outside of -20 till -40 degrees; the swedish law says that with -40 these caravans must obtain a temperature inside of 20 degrees. Ventilation must be perfect, considering the big differences between outside and inside temperature. Look at the site of Kabe how they make their vans so that ventilation problems won't occur. Unfortunately these information is in dutch but the pictures tell the story by themselves: www.kabe.se/nl/caravans and choose 'Kabe kwaliteit' and 'Kabe onder de loep (pdf)' (pages 6, 7 10-13):

- roof lockers hanging totally free from wall (ventilation behind and in the lockers)

- special humid absorbing carpet to the wall

- floor wet-heating, in combination with alde wet-heating

- high quality P6 Seitz windows with optimal isolation

- manual adjusting internal ventilation from under caravan (pre-warmed by floor-heating)

- special drying hanging cupboard for fast-drying of wet ski-shoes and -clothes

Of course, these are vans from 22.000 pounds and higher but in this respect English caravanmanufacturers can learn a lot of their scandinavian partners (alltough their vans they may look funny and not so flashy from the outside...). In heating-tests by German magazine (with Fendt Platin, Hymer Nova and Kabe Royal) it was said that Alde-heating has no meaning without furniture in which ventilation is incorporated as a design-factor. I would switch immediately back to an English van if these factors were better taken account for...

 

[trucker]

We do not have ali frames on our windows we-ve got an Abbey Vogue, we get some condensation build up on our windows in winter months as well, all we do is wipe the exess water from the frames and then open the windows on ventilation in the morning for a couple of hours and all is gone. I dont know how bad the condensation is in the caravans of ali window vans but I dont find it a hardship doing this every day cus its only when we go away in the depths of winter, incidently when we leave a couple of windows open on vent those windows dont condensate.

hopefully Jo-anne will find no problems this w/e as the weather is not so cold.

Kath has been very helpfull not only to myself but others on this forum. Her last sentance

"If you have individual concerns, please contact our customer careline on 01482 875740 or email enquiries@swiftleisure.co.uk"

makes sense to me as an individual complant or "disagreement" needs to be conducted in private after all if you look back on past posts she has said to everyone who has had a complant contact swift customer service and they will help.

I for one will still be buying swift products and stand by my previous statement re Kath.

Kevin

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Mark

I saw these caravans when I was in Finland.Not very pleasing to the eye but obviously they do what they are supposed to in their own environment.

Whilst some will say you pays your money and takes your choice, I cannot afford that luxury. In my book all UK manufactured caravans should be capable of maintaining adequate temperatures and ventilation throughout our four seasons.

It's only since the introduction of aluminium window frames that the condensation issue has been reinvented.

I am sorry , but there is no way I am sleeping next to an open window in sub zero temperatures.

All the advice given here about ventilation is absolutely true. If you compare caravans from the 70s to now there is a very clear tangible improvement on the ventilation front.

I suspect Polyplastic in their ambition to retain their foothold in the UK caravan market forgot the lessons from the past.

How many times have we seen manufacturers unwittingly reinvent the wheel? Remember the square steering wheel on the Austin Allegro?

Years ago you could buy sponge type strips that rested on the frames to absorb the condensation during the night. Not available now but I am investigating making my own, producing them and then selling them to Polyplastic as an accessory to their own products.

Now where is the patent office??

Cheers

Alan

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Hi Mark

I saw these caravans when I was in Finland.Not very pleasing to the eye but obviously they do what they are supposed to in their own environment.

Whilst some will say you pays your money and takes your choice, I cannot afford that luxury. In my book all UK manufactured caravans should be capable of maintaining adequate temperatures and ventilation throughout our four seasons.

It's only since the introduction of aluminium window frames that the condensation issue has been reinvented.

I am sorry , but there is no way I am sleeping next to an open window in sub zero temperatures.

All the advice given here about ventilation is absolutely true. If you compare caravans from the 70s to now there is a very clear tangible improvement on the ventilation front.

I suspect Polyplastic in their ambition to retain their foothold in the UK caravan market forgot the lessons from the past.

How many times have we seen manufacturers unwittingly reinvent the wheel? Remember the square steering wheel on the Austin Allegro?

Years ago you could buy sponge type strips that rested on the frames to absorb the condensation during the night. Not available now but I am investigating making my own, producing them and then selling them to Polyplastic as an accessory to their own products.

Now where is the patent office??

Cheers

Alan

I came across sponge strips for absorbing condensation only this morning in Wilkinsons. Its the first time I've seen them.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

hi just to let everyone know that i did go away but came back the same day with a few issues.

great talking to you this morning about issues etc.

so im afraid i cant report anything this morning.

jo-anne

 

[Juliec1]

We have a 2007 Ace Jubilee Envoy and like Jo-anne, we get condensation in the lockers over the bed. Now, anything stored in the rear lockers is in a pillowcase so that I can take everything out easily in the morning and leave the locker doors open. I've tried everything but the problem seems to be the material that the lockers are lined with. In ours the roof trim meets the wall trim inside the locker and, where they meet, there is a plastic strip. The condensation seems to be worst where the wall material and plastic strip are joined. The roof material never feels damp.

Our previous caravan was a 2004 Ace Jubilee Diplomat and the standard of workmanship was far better than with the Envoy. The plastic frames on the front bunks were loose and there were screws missing. There was a wire trapped underneath the frame of the omnivent. The kitchen tap came loose and the trims on the window frames looks as if I've done them!!! The lock broke on the battery box on the way home from it's first outing.

All of these problems have been fixed by my husband as, because we live in France, we can't just *** to the dealers everytime there is a problem!

Finally, to add insult to injury, Swift charged us

 

[Parksy]

Sorry to read about the condensation problems with the alluminium frames. Further to Woodland Walks comment regarding Wilkinsons anti condensation strip,its sad that you would have to resort to this after buying a new caravan but they can be seen on

http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/invt/5641040

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

This gets better. so if i use my van in the winter i need us to sleep with windows on night vent. the lockers that are above my bed are no good because they will always have condensation in them great.

great van ive bought for family all year round touring.

so swift have said put up, shut up and i aint talking about it no more oh and i forgot the door just slammed right in my face.

why am i not surprised.

i wish now i had bought a pagent or the eccles jewel and not a top of the range with dripping windows.

drip drip drip until when ? may, june july august.

we all have some condensation on our windows but not to the degree of pools of water lying on the bottom of the frames and not knowing what has dripped thoughout the night down the walls and onto the floor. We know what that can lead to. Having to use half a kitchen roll per day whilst its cold. Some might not mind but i do.

jo-anne

 

[RichardS1]

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the vans with Alde heating may not suffer from condensation as bad as the blown heating. However our previous Senator did not seem to suffer any problems in winter.

Bearing in mind that thousands of vans have been sold in the last five years with ali framed windows and I cannot recall any previous issues with excess condensation on any forums.

Does make you think that they may have been a fault with a small percentage of recently built vans with ali frames.

 

[Dustydog]

Richard

As far as I was aware the ali frames are something new to the series6 Senator, Conquerors and Sterling Elite models for 2008. I never saw them on previous ones?

Can you tell me which earlier Baileys and Swifts had these frames please?

Chjers

Alan

 

[spj]

Hi all,

I have been looking at new caravans today for my mother who wants a fixed bed tourer to use as a static, we started looking at the Sprites, but found them just too basic, Pageants were better value, we then looked at the Wyoming series 6, she really liked it but after looking at two dealers we found 4 brand new top of the range Baileys with puddles on the window frames and evidence of water running down behind the cusions, these vans had no heat on and with inside and outside temperatures about the same I can only assume the water had leaked in, other windows were perfecly dry but one or two windows in 4 seperate vans were wet through, a bit worrying for a new

 

[RichardS1]

Hi Alan

The ali frames are not new to the Series 6. Our current Spectrum 535 which we collected early December has identical windows to the Senator Oklahoma Series 5 which we previously owned. The window specification has not changed between the series 5 & 6 Senator.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

hi spj, my in laws had an abbey spectrum 2006 fixed island bed and they never had problems with pools of water on there frames.

i feel so let down that i have spent alot of money to do all year round touring and now i have to sleep with the windows on night vent which i cant do or mop up the water in the morning.

if i had to choose again i wouldnt have a van with those windows and god i would have saved myself alot of money.

im sure this will affect there sales but they wont admit to that.

jo-anne

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi all,

I have been looking at new caravans today for my mother who wants a fixed bed tourer to use as a static, we started looking at the Sprites, but found them just too basic, Pageants were better value, we then looked at the Wyoming series 6, she really liked it but after looking at two dealers we found 4 brand new top of the range Baileys with puddles on the window frames and evidence of water running down behind the cusions, these vans had no heat on and with inside and outside temperatures about the same I can only assume the water had leaked in, other windows were perfecly dry but one or two windows in 4 seperate vans were wet through, a bit worrying for a new

 

[Royston]

Cannot for the life of me understand why (this includes Bailey my make of van)why they have to have different styles of windows for the top end range than as somebody has already said the cheaper end .My Ranger has the same body build as the senators ie thickness of material for the floor sides & roof thge same warranty deals,the only more expensive bits are the windows and other add ons that make it appear a more expensive saleable item.

Mu choice the van total weight is under 1200kg, a bonus in todays fuel esculating costs, I can attatch the same awnings as other vans, The van brand new cost just over

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Richard

Do you get the condensation with the Spectrum 535? Did the Oklahoma suffer?

The walls of our caravans are only 28mm and there is supposed to be a thermal bridge between the inside and outside frames. I may be technically askew here but the principle is to stop the inner frame getting as cold as the outer frame.

I just wonder if there is a batch of polyplastic frames that unknown to Swift , Bailey and others are suffering from a manufacturing defect?

Well as SWIFT and POLYPLASTIC have slammed the door in our faces I guess we will never know.

I can say I am in communication privately with Bailey who are looking into th eproblem with their technical team although at the moment there is no immediate solution. I'm off the Wilkinsons tomorrow to get those sponge strips .

Cheers

Alan

 

[RichardS1]

Hi Alan

Yes we do get condensation when it is cold with the Spectrum as we did with the Oklahoma, but I could not say it is any worse than our last van with traditional style windows. We do not get the pools of water formimg which yourself and jo-anne have had.

We do always try to let some fresh air circulate, even if it is the heki on the ventilation setting.

Also remember when your van is new they may be more moisture in the van due to the manufacturing process which could assist the build up of condensation in the frames.

 

[Mikey1]

I think you need speak to your dealers on an individual basis,Swift are never going to admit that the frames are faulty on a forum.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

royston, i am far from being a snob. i wanted to have a top of the range van because last time i had a bottom of the range and it was crap. it was 2 years old and the front and rear panels had cracks thats why i wanted the best but i didnt know they came with soggy winter window frames with pools of water.

jo-anne