Approved workshop

[JohnM20]

Following a recent service on my caravan by an Approved Workshop I compared the service check sheet with the one shown on the NCC Approved Workshop Schemes own website. Without going into detail, there were several things that were on the 'official' check sheet which were missing or altered on the service workshop's sheet. Just for one example the NCC sheet says words to the effect that corner steadies should be lubricated. On the service workshops sheet it just says 'inspect' and I know for a fact that they weren't lubricated. This, as I have already stated, is just one example of the differences betyween the check lists.
My question is should the two check lists be the same or can an 'Approved Workshop' do as much or as little as they care to do and still be considered 'approved'. If the latter is the case what is the advantage of using an approved workshop?

 

[Damian]

All NCC Approved Workshops should be using the same set of checks and inspections as per the official service sheet as you have found on the Approved Workshop website.
All NCC Approved Workshops are encouraged to use the official sheet, but some workshops may have only recently gained approval and may be using up their old stock of service sheets before reverting over to the NCC ones.
However, regardless of which sheet they use they MUST follow the official NCC regime and if you have found irregularities you should contact the NCC Approved Workshop Manager and bring these anomolies to his attention , which he wil then take up withthe relevant workshop.

As you quite rightly say, what is the point if they use a different set of rules and cut corners.

 

[RogerL]

It doesn't sound right - contact the NCC directly and ask their advice - also ask the workshop why the discrepancy.

 

[SirRogerFFS]

I think I must have been very lucky to find our approved workshop. A real genuine guy he stuck the check list like a magnet and very thorough on his service. I believe his sheet is the same as the one you check yourselves. from the net. I think believe it or not Damian may know him as well.Anybody in Northamptonshire (Daventry) area .Its Missions Impossible . Im booked in for next years service already.

 

[Dustydog]

Looking at the Wyoming's service check sheet from 3 weeks ago , I see all the chassis bits say inspect and lubricate. They did just that including the jockey wheel etc.
More importantly they have a "Quality control iinitials & date" box signed by another engineer. Presumably the latter checks the others work, particularly wheel nut torques and the like.
I noticed they even lubricated all the locks.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

It says
"Corner steadies and spare wheel carrier-check for damage .operation & lubricate" on my dealer Service Schedule so they do seem to vary
They didn't check my spare wheel carrier as its in my garage and they didn't lubricate steadies and jockey wheel as I asked them not to
I spray the steadies and JW with Teflon lube spray to avoid grease that picks up road grit etc

 

[ProfJohnL]

One can take an ambivalent view of the approved workshop scheme. On the face of it (and it does have the potential)to provide the end user with confidence about the scope of work and the competency of an approved workshop, and to raise standards by raising expectations. But it is also a mechanism to discourage end-users from using none membership businesses.

Just in case any reader is not aware about the actual status of the NCC, I suggest you review the NCC website at:-

http://www.nationalcaravan.co.uk/Default.aspx
You will see it is trade only organisation with no unbiased end-user representatives. (The 'Clubs' are actually businesses with profit motivations)

As it is funded by its member businesses, the NCC is unlikely to take a stance that undermines any of its members, which suggests that in any situation where there is conflict between business and end-user interests, it is more than likely to side with business.

The NCC has no statutory powers to police the industry, Its ultimate sanction is to remove a businesses from its list of members, and thus deprive a business of a voice within the NCC.

Caravan related businesses are not obliged to seek NCC membership, and none membership is not a bar to trading in the industry, however the NCC members will usually prefer to do business with other NCC members.

The NCC is recognised by governments as a legitimate lobbying organisation for the caravan industry. It is also accepted as organisation with access to technical expertise related to caravans, and so it is usually admitted to the working party committee stages that precede green, white and government technical papers affecting the caravan industry and related trades.

With regard to the Approved Workshop Scheme. The scheme is not obligatory it is only voluntary. It carries no legal force, but assuming compliance with the schemes standards is monitored and where found lacking, action is taken, the only sanction the scheme has is to remove the workshop from the approval scheme.

One might hope that standardised documentation and levels of service may be adopted by participating businesses, it is not a legal requirement, so bespoke documentation is still possible.

Fundamentally and not dependant on membership of any trade scheme, any business that sets its self up and advertises its self to undertake work of a nature that requires a specialised technical knowledge or tools, (such as service centres) is legally bound to provide services of a competent and safe nature. Failure to so is a trading standards offence subject to law. With this in mind it raises the question of the need for an approved workshop scheme!

Ultimately any work an end-user asks a business to carry out is subject a contract between the end-user and the business. The NCC has no part in that contract. The terms of the contract should be settled before the work commences, and to that purpose the end-user can ask to see schedule of works such as the 'service sheet' and can clarify the acceptable standards of the work to be carried out. Together, the client and business may agree to adopt and use the Approved Workshop schedule and success criteria.

 

[Raywood]

One point missing from the thread is that the web site lets you report on your service and the business gets a percentage satisfaction rating. If you complete the web form you help others see the poor service provided.

 

[Surfer]

NCC = Noddy's Caravan Club. Any one remember their fiasco with electrics in a caravan about 2 years ago and how they made it sound as if it was mandatory?

 

[Parksy]

Now then Surfer, don't say rude things about the NCC (slapped wrist icon thingy)
The PIR check that caused such a stink seems to have died a quiet death, there were 377 responses on this forum alone

 

[JohnM20]

Thanks for everyone's comments. The dilema that I have now is who do I get to do my servicing ? For several years I used a local workshop based approved workshop who were not part of a caravan sales company believing that their reputation relied solely on good servicing. However, there were a couple of instances that made me query their competance. One was their claim that there was nothing wrong with the Truma motor mover that they fitted and the second was when they told me that a wheel bearing "may be a bit tight" and to "keep an eye on it". This was immediately prior to a long trip that they were aware of.
Because of these issues I tried a local mobile approved workshop who not only confirmed that there was a problem with the motor mover but rectified the problem quite easily. This workshop also found that the wheel bearing had actually partially collapsed and, again, rectified the problem.
In view of parts of the service not being carried out fully by the mobile workshop, if at all, do I now ditch this company ? My immediate feeling is 'yes' but where do I then go to get my service done without a very lengthy journey to the next nearest approved workshop or have a mobile workshop travel a long way to me.
The bottom line would appear to be that the Approved Workshop Scheme does not give us the peace of mind that we should expect so it would not necessarily make any beneficial difference to change from the 'devil I know'.

 

[RogerL]

The bottom line would appear to be that the Approved Workshop Scheme does not give us the peace of mind that we should expect so it would not necessarily make any beneficial difference to change from the 'devil I know'.

It's of no help to you but the original ACW Scheme, overseen by Jones-Vening, was much worse with no checks on competence or thoroughness at all. The current scheme is better but clearly not up to the marketing hype.
To move forward, you should discuss with the mobile ACW the service schedule list of tasks published on the NCC website and the tasks missing on his schedule and allow him to rectify the matter by carrying out the omitted tasks, FOC as you've already paid for the service. If he's unwilling to do that, as a gesture of customer service if nothing else, then you're better off without him.
Remember that with a 3-year warranty you only need the 1st and 2nd services done by an approved workshop - the warranty expires immediately after the 3rd service so in reality you can go where you want. What will compound the issue is if you have a longer "water ingress" warranty as the manufacturer will require approved servicing for years 3, 4 and 5 (for a 6-year warranty) to keep it valid.
Ask around caravanners in your area for recommendations for servicing, expect some conflicting advice but go with the consensus.

 

[Damian]

Quote " Remember that with a 3-year warranty you only need the 1st and 2nd services done by an approved workshop"

WRONG !!!!!

The third year service MUST be done before the original purchase date anniversary, there is no leeway on this service.
The reason for being done before the anniversary is to ensure that if there are any problems with fitted appliances they are picked up and a warranty claim started BEFORE the expiry of the manufacturers warranty

 

[RogerL]

Quote " Remember that with a 3-year warranty you only need the 1st and 2nd services done by an approved workshop"

WRONG !!!!!

The third year service MUST be done before the original purchase date anniversary, there is no leeway on this service.
The reason for being done before the anniversary is to ensure that if there are any problems with fitted appliances they are picked up and a warranty claim started BEFORE the expiry of the manufacturers warranty

Not wrong at all.

The 3rd year service can be done "on or before" the 3rd anniversary - so if it's done on the last day then the warranty expires the same day anyway.
But of course you can report all the warranty faults well in advance of the 3rd anniversary which would then be within the warranty period.
Leaving a dealer to find warranty faults during a service, rather than the owner reporting all issues to the dealer, is a somewhat unwise idea - especially if the warranty expires in a few days.

 

[Surfer]

Quote " Remember that with a 3-year warranty you only need the 1st and 2nd services done by an approved workshop"

WRONG !!!!!

The third year service MUST be done before the original purchase date anniversary, there is no leeway on this service.
The reason for being done before the anniversary is to ensure that if there are any problems with fitted appliances they are picked up and a warranty claim started BEFORE the expiry of the manufacturers warranty

Damien I don't think manufacturer's warranty comes into play as your contract is with the dealer and it is the dealer responsibility to sort out any issue even though you get it serviced after the 3rd year anniversary date and are able to prove an inherent fault like damp or delamination. Obviously with something like a microwave you will stand no chance, but a fridge, oven etc are part of the build of a caravan so are covered.

 

[otherclive]

Are you sure that a fridge/cooker is covered beyond 3 years? It was my understanding that the warranty for those types of kit expired on the 3rd year from the date of purchase unless an extended warranty had been bought. I think just reporting a fault and then taking the van in after the 3rd birthday would require the Dealers prior agreement that it would be fixed under warranty when the van is then taken to the dealer for fault rectification or service. Doesn't the water ingress warranty only allow a specified period of lee way around the anniversary of the vans purchase date?

 

[Damian]

Quote " Damien I don't think manufacturer's warranty comes into play as your contract is with the dealer"

You are wrong in your thoughts over fitted equipment.
The only part of a caravan covered by the manufacturers warranty (ie Bailey, Swift etc) is the fabric of the van, the water ingress guarantee and things like floor delamination.
Evry bit of kit bought in as fitments, such as the cooker, fridge, air con, blinds, windows, doors, water heaters etc are only covered by the individual maers guarantee, which for fridges, cooker and water heaters is 3 years from date of purchase.
Windows and plastics generally have a 1 year warranty, other items have their own lengths of guarantee, or warranty.

Items such as fridges , cookers , water heaters are not part of the build as such, they can be fitted or not and do not need to be fitted for the van still to be used, unlike the roof or floor.

Here is the info from , in this case Bailey, but is pretty much universal to all UK makers:

3 Year Manufacturer’s Warranty
For a period of twenty-four (24) months from the initial date of purchase Bailey of Bristol offer a comprehensive warranty on all parts and components as well as full coverage for any manufacturing faults forming part of the original specification of the vehicle. The manufacturer’s warranty then extends to an additional twelve (12) months on the following items.
Chassis: all chassis members including corner steadies
Suspension: axle suspension and braking system (excluding any damage to or faults in brake drums and shoes that are caused through misuse of the braking system or from normal wear and tear)
Running Gear: road wheels (excluding tyres)
Towing Mechanism: all mechanical components fitted to vehicle (excluding electrics)
Cooker: the cooker unit including burners, grill, oven, flame failure device and igniter
Refrigerator: door seal condenser, gas control valve, gas igniter, flame failure device, 12 and 230v heater elements, gas thermostat, 230v thermostat and 230v temperature control switch
Water System: water heater (gas or electric), fresh water tank, water pump, water gauges, taps and shower head
Electrical System: mains hook up input connector, ELCB, battery charger and distributor unit and interior lighting units (excluding bulbs)
Cassette Toilet: the cassette toilet is covered (excluding seals, valves and glands)
Heating System: thermostat, motor, switches, control unit, gas heater, flame failure device and igniter (excluding ducting and fittings)
Windows: the functionality of the opening and closing system (stays, handles and catches) and a warranty against the cracking of the acrylic
Upholstery: zips, seams and colour fastness

Whilst Bailey state they cover the first 24 months, in fact it is the standard appliance manufacturers warranty and any appliance manufacturers repair agent can recify faults without affecting the rest of the caravan warranty.

 

[otherclive]

Don't the manufactures of some fitted equipment stipulate that it be serviced at stated periods and normally such work is not included in the vans service. Ie the fridge being one. So if it isn't carried out the owner risks invalidating the equipment warranty and only has the dealers goodwill and Sale of Goods Act available.

 

[Damian]

Quote " Don't the manufactures of some fitted equipment stipulate that it be serviced at stated periods and normally such work is not included in the vans service. Ie the fridge being one"

You are quite right, certainly Dometic and Thetford T&C's include the requirement that the fridge has its burner serviced at least each year if using propane, more often if using Butane or any other LPG source, and this is an additional costing.

Failure to carry out their requirements does render the guarantee invalid, but in certain cases they will honour the guarantee as a gesture of goodwill, not as a "right"

 

[Raywood]

Under EEC regulations sellers of goods are required to repair them if they are found to be defective due to a manufacturing fault within five years of purchase. The problem with this is that you have to show that the goods were faulty when sold to you which means getting an independent report and is only realy suitable for serious problems in view of the costs involved.

 

[Surfer]

I am surprsied that Damien has not heard of the Sale of Goods Act which would cover appliances like fridges and cookers as they are an intergral part of the caravan and there is no need for an extended warranty. The exception is of course fair wear and tear.
SOGA states the following;

Goods
are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person
would regard as satisfactory, taking
into account the price and any description.
Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor
defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

I would therefore expect these applaices to last for the duration of 6
years as I paid £xxx which would be in the thousands for the caravan. Your contract would be with the dealer and not the manufacturer. Anyway generally it is not the manufacturer offering the extended warranty, but another 3rd party.

 

[RogerL]

The "problem" with SoGA is that you'd have to have the item repaired/replaced at your own expense and then sue the retailer for costs incurred - this takes time as well as money you might not have - there's always the risk that your court action may not succeed, for instance if your own actions have contributed to the issue, and would certainly fail if the retailer is in liquidation
Most people will find it easier/quicker to use the warranty even if it's terms are slightly more restrictive than SoGA.
It's always possible to use SoGA if the warranty route fails and it can be a useful discussion point in efforts to resolve the issue.