Bailey Pegasus 462 ball hitch weight

[Somersetboy]

I know this subject has been talked about in previous years but I would like help. Having read posts from the past years I have followed the advice / comments and emptied all front/side lockers and stowed them over the axle. Prior to doing this I was struggling to lower the N.W down from 100kgs to 70/75kgs. I have used both bathroom scales (new and checked) and my Milenco Gauge. I have rearranged the load over the axle and put items in end bathroom but still find a difference between the old fashioned way (scales) and the M.G. Scales still show 100kgs but the M.G now shows 70kgs . What would you accept with the readings? The caravan is fitted with A.T.C so I am hoping that this will help in reducing the tail wagging the dog but concerned that with most of the weight over and behind the axle I might have a lot more pendulum effect. Your comments/advice would be welcome.

 

[otherclive]

I’m a bit confused are you saying the MG read 70 kg and bathroom scales 100kg? What were the two methods showing before you started to rearrange the load towards the rear? I used bathroom scales and Milenco but at 80 kg target noseweight there was less than 5 kg variation. So after that I just used Milenco. Are you comparing at the same hitch height from the ground and caravan level?

 

[Somersetboy]

I’m a bit confused are you saying the MG read 70 kg and bathroom scales 100kg? What were the two methods showing before you started to rearrange the load towards the rear? I used bathroom scales and Milenco but at 80 kg target noseweight there was less than 5 kg variation. So after that I just used Milenco. Are you comparing at the same hitch height from the ground and caravan level?

Hi, you say your confused so am I. Yes they both read different weights. I used the M.G on our previous caravan and happy with it but having now purchased the Pegasus I am getting this problem. I understand that the Baileys range of caravans have heavy nose weights possibly due to the Alco chassis. In both cases yesterday my weights were on level ground and at the same height so as said cannot understand why there is such a difference.

 

[otherclive]

On your previous caravan did you compare Milenco with bathroom scales if so what was the difference if any. For this new van any chance of borrowing some bathroom scales to give a check against your scales and Milenco? Must admit it’s a puzzle a 30 kg variation between the scales and gauge. Some use a small Reich electronic gauge that sits on the towball and you then couple up the caravan to read the weight. Not forgetting to remove it before setting off 😂

Reich TLC Towbar Weight Gauge Single Twin Axle

Reich Caravan Tow Bar Weight Gauge Towbar Load Control. Accurate and reliable digital measurement in 1kg intervals up to 100kg. Simply place on Tow ball then rest the caravan on the TLC for an accurate measurement of weight on the Towball. Max load 109kg 522-5000 522-5200 Requires 2 x AA...

theleisurewarehouse.co.uk

 

[RogerL]

Hi, you say your confused so am I. Yes they both read different weights. I used the M.G on our previous caravan and happy with it but having now purchased the Pegasus I am getting this problem. I understand that the Baileys range of caravans have heavy nose weights possibly due to the Alco chassis. In both cases yesterday my weights were on level ground and at the same height so as said cannot understand why there is such a difference.

It won't be the Alko chassis causing the heavy noseweight - as most UK caravans use the same chassis.

Presumably you're trying to get the noseweight down within towcar limit?

 

[Somersetboy]

It won't be the Alko chassis causing the heavy noseweight - as most UK caravans use the same chassis.

Presumably you're trying to get the noseweight down within towcar limit?

Yes car limit is 70kgs, had Bailey Pageant prior to the Pegasus did not have a problem with N.W using the Milenco Gauge, but on using gauge on new van got high noseweights so decided to puchase set of scales for comparison.

 

[Somersetboy]

On your previous caravan did you compare Milenco with bathroom scales if so what was the difference if any. For this new van any chance of borrowing some bathroom scales to give a check against your scales and Milenco? Must admit it’s a puzzle a 30 kg variation between the scales and gauge. Some use a small Reich electronic gauge that sits on the towball and you then couple up the caravan to read the weight. Not forgetting to remove it before setting off 😂

Reich TLC Towbar Weight Gauge Single Twin Axle

Reich Caravan Tow Bar Weight Gauge Towbar Load Control. Accurate and reliable digital measurement in 1kg intervals up to 100kg. Simply place on Tow ball then rest the caravan on the TLC for an accurate measurement of weight on the Towball. Max load 109kg 522-5000 522-5200 Requires 2 x AA...

theleisurewarehouse.co.uk

Will look at one of these,👍

 

[Buckman]

The Milenco gauge is fairly accurate and we have been using one for many years. I think I would rather believe the MG any time over any bathroom scale.

 

[Somersetboy]

The Milenco gauge is fairly accurate and we have been using one for many years. I think I would rather believe the MG any time over any bathroom scale.

This is my gut feeling, cheers.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I initially wondered if your caravan was a twin axle model which could possibly explain the difference in readings, but I googled your model and I see it is a single axle. So I can see your concern.

Just because a set of scales are new does not mean they'll be more accurate. But you can at least evaluate their accuracy by putting known weights on them and to see if they agree.

For example weigh your caravan's empty water carrier, note the reading. Then fill it with a known accurate quantity of water ( fortunately each litre of water weighs 1Kg), and weigh the filled carrier and see if the figures agree. You will then know if the scales can be trusted or not.

If you have read previous threads about nose load measurements, you will see I'm not a fan of compression spring nose load gauges, for two main reasons, firstly, the do not adjust their length to ensure the hitch settles at exactly the same height as when it's coupled to the tow vehicle, and secondly most models of gauge are inconsistent with the readings they give, and that means they are inaccurate. Milenco do claim that their model is designed to be more consistent, but it still does not adjust to match the coupling height, which can lead to errors.

However in your case the difference in readings is too big to be explained by hitch height inconsistencies on an SA caravan.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If your cars nose load limit is 70Kg, then you should be aiming for less than 70, not 75.

 

[otherclive]

Has Mrs SB been meddling with bathroom scale settings

 

[Somersetboy]

Has Mrs SB been meddling with bathroom scale settings

Hmm I don't think so she prefers the electronic ones that informs you of everything

 

[Somersetboy]

I initially wondered if your caravan was a twin axle model which could possibly explain the difference in readings, but I googled your model and I see it is a single axle. So I can see your concern.

Just because a set of scales are new does not mean they'll be more accurate. But you can at least evaluate their accuracy by putting known weights on them and to see if they agree.

For example weigh your caravan's empty water carrier, note the reading. Then fill it with a known accurate quantity of water ( fortunately each litre of water weighs 1Kg), and weigh the filled carrier and see if the figures agree. You will then know if the scales can be trusted or not.

If you have read previous threads about nose load measurements, you will see I'm not a fan of compression spring nose load gauges, for two main reasons, firstly, the do not adjust their length to ensure the hitch settles at exactly the same height as when it's coupled to the tow vehicle, and secondly most models of gauge are inconsistent with the readings they give, and that means they are inaccurate. Milenco do claim that their model is designed to be more consistent, but it still does not adjust to match the coupling height, which can lead to errors.

However in your case the difference in readings is too big to be explained by hitch height inconsistencies on an SA caravan.

I did check scales prior to using them with an unopened 2kg sugar, might not be the best of tests.

 

[otherclive]

You can adjust the height of the Mlenco gauge upwards but not downwards.

 

[Woodentop]

Been there, done that etc etc.
We bought a 2010 462 in 2012 and had the same issue. We loaded up as we were used to doing and the noseweight end-stopped the bathroom scales - in excess of 126kg! The Passat estate we had at the time had a Thule bar with a max load of 85kg.
In the end we bought a couple of (35L?) Really Useful boxes that were an exact fit for the wardrobe in the bathroom. Filled one with spare bedding and the other with cleaning materials inc a small electric vac and it came down nicely to 83kg.
Before anyone says it - we had that van for almost six years, towed it all over the UK and Western Europe and never once did we have any tail-wag issues - in fact I would say it was probably the most stable tows out of the five caravans we have used or owned.
A friend has just gone back into caravanning and bought a 2010 462 which he tows with a Toyota RAV4 2.5L petrol hybrid. He too balanced the noseweight - in his case I think at 75kg - and agrees with me that it is one of the most stable tows he has ever had.

 

[otherclive]

Our Sprite Musketeer TD was nose heavy and I too had to rebalance it by putting weight at the back even when its front locker only carried one 6 kg propane cylinder and minimal other stuff. By design the van had most of its heavy fixed fitments in front of or on the axle. Taking an upper bunk out gave a bit more payload at the expense of increasing noseweight. But with only being 6.5 m and with well loaded tow car even without ATC I never had any concerns over the stability.

 

[Somersetboy]

Been there, done that etc etc.
We bought a 2010 462 in 2012 and had the same issue. We loaded up as we were used to doing and the noseweight end-stopped the bathroom scales - in excess of 126kg! The Passat estate we had at the time had a Thule bar with a max load of 85kg.
In the end we bought a couple of (35L?) Really Useful boxes that were an exact fit for the wardrobe in the bathroom. Filled one with spare bedding and the other with cleaning materials inc a small electric vac and it came down nicely to 83kg.
Before anyone says it - we had that van for almost six years, towed it all over the UK and Western Europe and never once did we have any tail-wag issues - in fact I would say it was probably the most stable tows out of the five caravans we have used or owned.
A friend has just gone back into caravanning and bought a 2010 462 which he tows with a Toyota RAV4 2.5L petrol hybrid. He too balanced the noseweight - in his case I think at 75kg - and agrees with me that it is one of the most stable tows he has ever had.

Thanks Woodentop I have done something similar with contents but it was just the difference between the scales and Milenco gauge that made me shudder.

 

[Somersetboy]

Our Sprite Musketeer TD was nose heavy and I too had to rebalance it by putting weight at the back even when its front locker only carried one 6 kg propane cylinder and minimal other stuff. By design the van had most of its heavy fixed fitments in front of or on the axle. Taking an upper bunk out gave a bit more payload at the expense of increasing noseweight. But with only being 6.5 m and with well loaded tow car even without ATC I never had any concerns over the stability.

Thanks for your comment.

 

[ProfJohnL]

... The caravan is fitted with A.T.C so I am hoping that this will help in reducing the tail wagging the dog but concerned that with most of the weight over and behind the axle I might have a lot more pendulum effect. Your comments/advice would be welcome.

ATC should never be thought of as correction device to make a trailer towable, It should only be considered to be like seat belts, which are there if the worst occurs, at all other times you are not using them to help you manage to drive.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Woodentop I have done something similar with contents but it was just the difference between the scales and Milenco gauge that made me shudder.

With both systems have you leant on the hitch and seen where it bounced back to? I binned my MG years ago due to spurious readings. Maybe newer models are more reliable?
The bathroom scales , new ones , checked and calibrated , do give reasonably accurate readings. I use the Reich guage described earlier by Clive. That and my scales are always within 5kgs so I’m happy.
Can we assume the attitude of the caravan is the same for both methods of measurement?